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Moving a flush after February freezes -----

Does anyone in south Florida have true Coccothrinax borhidiana for sale? Thanks

My climate is transitional BSh to BSk. Köppen classification. I think I have to give a try with this sp outdoors. I grow a potted one for many years in expanded clay mixed with pumice and lava and thrives.

I had a Chrysalidocarpus sp. pop up like that a couple months back and it eventually withered away once it ran out of nutrients from the seed I imagine

Hi there, I’m interested, pls text. 916-798-9225

We all like them... except @Than

I spy a few fruit in the last photo! Harry

No change. Palms continue to decline. Even new green spears on 2nd palm are advancing. AI is totally useless giving completely inverted responses and requiring constant reminders of lost facts. Spears are slowly dying, and drying. Cross sections show clear clean tissue. Two seperate palms, two different soil and water situations. Both trimmed around same time with same blade. 2 months ago. Spears do NOT pull. They are extremely firm. No overhead water 6 months before issue began. Cleary 3666f does not seem to have worked. Soil drenched 1 tbsp in 2 gallon in evening and chase with more water on pre-wetted soil on July 24th. Have 1 gal of Gunner 14.3 MEC. Don't dare apply as soil drench (or at all) because its off label. Plus research says palms won't pull it up into vascular tissue anyway. Copper crown drench feels risky; its 108F every day lately. Don't want to cause more damage to healthy palms. I'm at a loss and feel totally doomed to lose other palms since I may have inadvertently used the same saw blade on sawzall for other palms 3 weeks ago. Its an awful feeling with over $10K invested in palms. Below is the sickest tree and some fronds to review.

I agree with @happypalms . The best time to plant a palm was 20 years ago, but the second best time is today. Looking forward to watching it grow up @idontknowhatnametuse !

This is a species I often collect seeds from locally and grow. They are fine with my dark soil, but I've managed to grow them in pure expanded clay hydroballs and in a concrete pile. They seem to prefer a drier climate. If anyone in the desert or semi-arid areas is looking for something worth a shot, this would be it in my opinion. They have seen mid-20s here with damage, but in a drier climate, it stands to reason they could handle a little bit lower with some leaf damage.

This really sums it up. Although I am sure that we were lower than 27F over here. My yard is open and I would estimate 23-24F was the ultimate low. But the wind, man that was crazy. In the past, mid 20s were usually associated with little to no wind. Which is obviously not good. But we had 20+mph wind with temps in the 20s. I did not have any C. Macrocarpas but I have 2 Oliviformis. The seedling got covered by a blanket of mulch and is fine. The 7’ lost all exposed leaves and is pushing out some growth but it’s now about 4’ and doesn’t look anything like it did.

Coccothrinax are a splitters dream. So many variants and hybrids to nitpick. Most in the US are, or are hybrids of, barbadensis, miraguama, and to a lesser extent borhidiana, and crinita. When you get out to California, from general sellers especially, it’s going to be the common ones or common hybrids. Palmpedia can’t identify them correctly, and I’ve got a bunch, from reputable Cuban Palm sellers, and 1/2 of those turned out to be misidentified hybrids. So I approach them like a good lumper, hopelessly, like I approach rarer crotons now…. I lump them into broad categories for the most part. If you like it and it looks great, I’m not sure it matters. That being said, yours looks very much like my, Miraguama ssp roseocarpa, which looks nothing like Miraguama ssp miraguama. A couple of years ago…. Now 9+ feet to the tips…. Note the leaf….

Eureka Farms in Miami has Howea forsteriana. They ship everywhere.

Tracy, I have a two palms that were labeled as C. Argentata and two that were labeled as L. Morrisii - whatever they are, they all look the same, and have all grown very well. These did not come from Jungle Music. I wonder if these are the same as yours? It’s hard to see in those light, though they are quite silver underneath.

Here are my three planted out, the best looking one was the least exposed with the best windbreak and canopy, the last was most wind exposed and took the most damage, but all have put forth a valiant effort to regrow this summer. Hopefully a mild winter and good rains keep them going. I managed to save everything in this garden area with my attempts but had losses elsewhere.

Thanks @Banana Belt! All your tips and experiences are really helpful. My property has very dry sandy soil. Madrones thrive along the perimeter. As far as care I fertilize end of march, mid/late May, then a smaller dose July 1 typically. I have been giving it a deep water about once a week in spring/early summer if we get no rain. I taper down the watering in July and then quit watering sometime in early mid August to hopefully harden it off. We get a good bit colder than you up here so I aim to have growth really slow down before the weather get especially cold and wet. I read a paper by Ian Barclays (the desert nw) that a member posted on here recommending the avoidance said water and fertilizer heading into the fall and it seems to be a pretty good strategy so far. The site also starts to get less direct sun in winter since some tall trees to the south block some sun when it’s at a low angle. ***At first I was worried it could be too shady in the winter but now I wonder if it works in my favor by keeping it from growing too quickly during winter warm spells. I’d be really curious if any forum members have a take on this? I know some people that plant apricots to the north of tall trees hoping to delay spring flowering till frosts are less of a threat. Could be something there.

My guess would be Coccothrinax argentea. Understandably it gets confused with C. argentata but it's a distinct species, despite what jungle music's website says. I think the names have been used interchangeably or just carelessly applied by various sources. https://junglemusic.com/2024/02/coccothrinax-argentea-medium-sized-fan-palm-4/ C. argentea is from Hispaniola and has stiffer leaflets than C. barbadensis or C. argentata, but not as rigid as the Cuban species like C. miraguama. The thatching pattern is a tight, fine burlap, again somewhat intermediate between the two extremes of loose fiber to hard textured mesh seen in Coccothrinax. This species is not well illustrated on palmpedia or by a Google image search, again due to confusion of the name with the more well known Florida species, but I believe it's still one of the of the more common Coccothrinax in cultivation. I recommend inaturalist for in situ photos for comparison https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/364469-Coccothrinax-argentea

Thank you for the opportunity to try this in my garden . I had a Ptychosperma McCarthuri when I first bought the house . It did not make it more than a couple years . Now , 28 years later , with the mature palms and amended soil , things are different. Harry I just checked…..it made it through the night!!😂

@sonoranfans “ Every time I see a washie I curse the big box stores for not offering the better Livistona alternatives “ , I couldn’t agree more ! The Livistona Australis is starting to make a presence here . When our local hospital added a new wing , they planted several mature specimens and they are beautiful. I don’t know where they found them . The only one I’ve ever seen at a nursery , I bought . Even though the poor thing had been neglected and was ready for the bin , I scooped it up at a discount , knowing they are tough as nails. The deeply divided , costapalmate fronds along with a relatively slender trunk make them a welcome addition . Just watch the “teeth” on them when they are young . Once overhead , it’s only when they are trimmed that the teeth are concerning. Harry

Tim, Because you are close to the ocean, the (down low) wind protection will be as important as canopy. Wind would carry away heat the canopy is trying to trap, making it less effective, and with 8-10 mph wind pretty much useless. I'd be careful with live oaks, their roots compete with palms if too close and in the future you will have your palms running into oak branches and getting shredded unless you prune high up regularly. I currently have this issue for a few 30' palms from oaks that are just off my property to the south. I see this around my 15-20 year neighborhood. I walk by a beautiful bismarckia each day that is growing up into a large oak 20' toot away, its going to be shredding that bizzie in wind in the near future at only 20' tall. As far as sabals, my sabal causiarum has much bigger crown than the popular palmetto triples, it dwarfs them, grows 3-4x as fast and has only one thick trunk. If you are ever down my way I have a couple 7-10 gallon sabal causiarum I could donate. My large causiarum seeds and volunteers constantly. They will laugh at your coldest cold and be 35-40' tall in 15 years. With all that space a grove of 4-5 of them would tower over other palms and be carefree. There is so much ground, it seems Ideal for clustering several groups of mixed species of palms with open areas in between. No windbreak at 18F would eliminate many palms, though if established before the next great freeze, the clumping would help. Silver saw palmetto might work and arenga engleri is another possibility as palm windbreaks. Remember palms don't get windchill, they are not warm blooded. But wind removes any heat overhead canopy traps from the ground overnight which can mean 2-3 degrees of heat trapping lost.

They are almost prehistoric looking ! I have two that I planted a few years apart . They aren’t super fast growing here , but steady . Mine were about the size of your little potted specimen in the photo. I’ve watched them grow over the years and they are so different from the other palms . The fronds maintain the triangular shape by repeatedly opening on the same plane as previous ones . The purple tomentum and silvery color , plus the “strings” that hang down give the palm a very exotic appearance. Harry A perfect spot for a nap . The wee folk of the garden have claimed this one! This one is not near as lush as the one I planted in the front where there is a bit more shade. I found that the shade has benefitted this one . I also figured out , last year , in between rain events is the best time to pull leaf bases off! This area , out front , has a very diverse leaf type of palms planted close together . Roystonia O. , Chambeyronia M. , Caryota M. , Syagrus R. , and Archontophoenix A. . Throw in a few Howea for good measure! 😊 I do find it interesting that high humidity ( Hawaii ) , tropical is not their preferred environment. They seem to prefer a more temperate or sub tropical home.

there is no transplant shock because it was planted, not transplanted. Transplanting involves cutting of roots of an in ground palm. It is a beauty though! Keep us posted on this one!

thorns on the young may prevent predation by grazing animals, and once they are larger they arent needed. There are two types of thorns, stabby ones(phoenix) and razor saw thorns(copernicia baileyana). My Livistona saribus has the nastiest looking thorns, they stab, while my bailey slices an dices with sharp edges in a sawtooth shape and alignment. The worst "stabbies" I have grown are from a phoenix sylvestris unknown hybrid, they are the sharpest "stabbie" thorns and combined with growing so many leaves, the most painful to remove each year, so I edited it. I put up with my bailey because it is awe inspiring and ultimately self sheds to as smooth trunk. When I do cut the dead leaves off, I drag them by the leaflets to the curb for disposal. My saribus leaves can penetrate gloves, I mulch them to rot and avoid the pile, its like barbed wire. One think to consider is the weight of a leaf, the more it weight the more pressure at the thorn point at the skin and the greater chance of a big stab/cut. I dont worry much about thorns on small palms, just dont grab. The bigger ones you have to lift and the opposing force can give a deeper wound. I would have rather had an australis than my decora, but I couldn't find one. I also love the saribus rotundifolius black stem, I looked for years and gave up, a stunning tropical looking palm with a black trunk. Livistonas are way underplanted here. Every time I see a washie I curse the big box stores for not offering the better livistona alternatives.

Steve, I had never planned to buy this palm, it was a suggestion and it was super cheap, cheapest 90 gal ever and delivered for that price. Clay under sand is like magic for some palms as long as the clay is draining. Some clay will not drain and I suspect is the death of many palms. High sodic and calcereous clays are going to be very tough for many palms as they can cause nutrient deficiency. This palm may tolerate alkalinity kind of like a bismarckia, its not dependent on fertilization. Ive seen a few green ones in arizona that looked great in a well draining clay. I usually don't pot with clay due to drainage and our rain. We have construction clay here up near( within 10') houses, its designed to repel water so foundations don't wash away. Away from house is a different clay, used to elevate the land over swamp. This clay often has some sand in it and can be useful from growing but with over 50" of rain a year it better drain. I believe a decently draining clay in an arid or semi arid low rain environment is just the ticket for gardening as it limits irrigation needs and salt buildup due to irrigating. Most clay is loaded with cation exchange and good water retention. Cation exchange by organics dissolves and washes away, needing to be replaced frequently. But a good draining clay with sand near the surface keeps that cation exchange forever. When I dig a hole I go deep and mix the sand and clay under a palm and add some organics(10%) for the backfill. I did not always do that and some of my results were not so good early on. My raised beds which have much less clay content need the mulch more than the more substantial clay mix areas. I do have a couple spots where the clay predominates(80-90%) and things get stunted as water does not drain well. Drainage easements have the clay on top to direct water. The area that got my #2 bizzie killed by weevils from oversaturation in standing water was almost all clay. I got the pick axe out ripped up that ground to 4' deep(sand), and amended it with sand, turface MVP, and organics and replanted more of a water lover there (C, Hospita). I found growing out the in 9" rain a year hot desert very different from here in florida. I killed a number of palms not understanding the varied composition of soil in the yard and how different it was growing in a sandy soil high rain environment. I give this alba credit, I have neglected it compared with 3/4ths of my palms and it still shines in a full sun position.

The same here. I have one Plumeria by the kitchen window , next to a large Chamaedorea that keeps some of its leaves year ‘round. The rest defoliate . The climate is definitely warmer here than when I was young . I think most scientists agree that it is cause for alarm. The palms are luvin it though. When I was in biology class in the late 1960’s we were taught that the planet’s mean temperature was critical to life . If it were to change by more than a degree or so , it could threw off the balance of life. Here we are! It’s not knowledge we lack , it’s humility. ( stolen words from Don Henley song ) . Grow more palms , cool your garden . That works at my house! Harry