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I have a nice white bismarckia 30-35 footer than I got from a big box store in 2010, one of the whitest I have seen. It was moldy with just a clean spear. I also have a livistona chinensis multi, dypsis lutecens, and a Livistona decora that are now mature that I purchased from big box stores. However, the selection is typically limited and sometimes not climate appropriate at these stores. I have about 60 palms purchased form palm specialty nurseries. Every other yard in my area looks like a big box store selection(s), terribly boring like the same selections yard after yard. They don't even carry silver saw palmettos, a native bluish silver palm. I have also received palms that obviously had better quality care from the palm specialty nurseries. Box stores let palms go into decline and if they don't sell fast enough they write them off. These days the smaller nurseries have been seriously thinned out unless I drive 3-4 hrs and the big box stores sell prices that make me very happy that I planted out when I did. These days palms are more in general but if I want anything outside the 7-8 palm species stocked at the big box, I order small palms from redlands nursery. https://www.redlandnursery.com/availability-list/ B. Alfredii 3 gallons are $25 today and look great, happy as potted palms, and copernicia baileyana one gallon tall pots are $25. I paid the same for the 3 gallon alfredii in 2011, $25, its now ~30'+ overall. A 25 gallon bailey is $600, it makes no sense to buy that size. I had a 3 gallon bailey grow to double the size of that 25 gallon bailey in 4 years. I had two bismarckias one a 15 gallon and the second that moldy 5 gallon. The 5 gallon blew by the 15 gallon one in height in 7 years. Planting a big palm is over rated by most people, and also more expensive. When I look at my growing(6' max height) copernicia hospita triple which cost $20 each (by mail) from redlands and consider the largest would sell for $800-$1000, or when I look at my 20' copernicia baileyana and consider I paid $40 for a 3 gallon in 2011 and it would cost 10k to replace it, I feel like I made some great decisions going small. I still don't see a reason to buy at the big box stores now, I guess I am lucky to be in Florida but also to be aware of what can be grown. The awareness comes from palmtalkers. I highly recommend anyone new to palms to lurk, read, and ask questions for a while before buying palms. My yard would be a boring garden without the knowledge I have gained from palmtalkers.

Progress, eh? Ain't it grand.

A chilly weekend ahead for you Phil, looks like we're sharing love. In conditions like this I'm always thankful that we're separated from Antarctica by 2500km of water, not land.

I will have to agree with @happypalms . I had one of those in my old greenhouse and it grew beautifully , and got quite large . When we moved , I had no greenhouse so I tried to grow it in a spare bedroom and it slowly faded away , they will not survive outdoors here . I have not had much luck with indoor palms . Some can make it with proper attention and regular outdoor time in a covered porch or patio. My Licuala Grandis was just too sensitive for my skill level. Harry

Harry, the Green Thumb nursery on S. Victoria Avenue in Ventura often has small, rare palms. During my annual SoCal road trip I always stop there.

It always amazes me how well palms grow over on the islands . Those are beauties and would probably take a lifetime to grow from seed , even here in Southern California . My high school friend retired and built a home on Kauai. I went over to see his new home and he had just planted some waist high Roystonia . A few years later , I went back to visit and they were large , trunking specimens! Those photos are great . In particular , the shot with the white plastic chair . I can see many times , sitting with an iced beverage , admiring the scenery. My kind of place! Harry

Well said , @happypalms . It is a completely different market and the average “house beautiful” gardener that wants a few flowers and a manicured lawn will probably go to big box nurseries for price and a place where they can buy house stuff all in one stop. Us “Tarzan , jungle “ types are looking for something different. Some of us will capture a good deal on the clearance rack or sale just because we need “filler” . The reason I will keep the Ravenea Rivularis in pots is in case I run into a more rare palm to permanently replace the potted ones. I really do miss the mom and pop nurseries we had around here . The times I had visited , I always came home with a smile. The benefit was usually expertise in plant selection and knowledge . I learned so much from them and I always took my regional Sunset Garden Book with me to look up certain plants . Since joining Palm Talk , I now know the secret underground places to find my unobtainable species! If you were here , you would not be rid of me very easily! In the early nineties there were collectors that would sell through a local nursery . I could get bands with rare seedlings and bump into other collectors in the area . It was so cool , like a network of special folks . Alas , the manager retired and the network moved on . The nursery is still there and you can get some cool palms and cycads there . I was able to replace my Syagrus Schizophylla there. Harry

That was a fun discovery. Southern Oklahoma is one of the few parts of the state where mature Sabal palmetto can sometimes do well, especially in sheltered urban locations with good drainage and a bit of extra warmth from buildings. The casinos also have the budget to replace any losses, so they're more willing to experiment with large landscape specimens than most homeowners. The Trachycarpus doesn't surprise me at all since they're generally more cold-tolerant. The Sabal palmetto is definitely the more interesting one. I'd be curious to know how they looked after some of the colder winters we've had since this thread was posted, as that would say a lot about their long-term hardiness in that area.

Well I'm still not sure about that since I've saw lots of coconuts here in Indonesia that has smaller frond length. But I don't know the truth though, perhaps it could be done by pruning or just another variety that we don't know🤷

I have images from the google street view of coconuts beside the road that sometimes I pass through it, they seems like dwarfed characteristics and has really short leaves, perhaps the same as you were mentioned. I don't know if this is somekind of variety or due to pruning (dwarf effect), but the coconut is still flowering and fruiting nicely. It has a slender stem, yellow coloring on the petioles and fruits. These are the timelines: Coconut appearance from 2013 Coconut appearance from 2024 If we look at it, it has gotten taller and differences in the leaves. In 2013, the leaves looks more longer than in 2024. Another Coconut appearance with more compacted leaves.

Bit of a cold snap here this weekend, snow coming inland - but here on the coast we will be spared subzero temperatures as per usual. Recently planted R baueri are settling in nicely. Very slow at this time of year, even the chathams rhopies slow right down, opening spears over a month or more, rather than a week or two over warmer months.

You seemed to have worked out what went wrong. All I could say is that palms won’t live indoors permanently and do require a spell outside in a nice greenhouse or in a shaded warm are with humidity. And the recovery time involved in bringing your palm back to that glorious indoor stunner is a few years growing away. It’s been setback and it’s going to take a growers skill to get it back looking like it once did. Overwatering and underwatering are the greatest problem for indoor growing.

Nothing beats the home garden, and this one was even better returning with good rainfall while away. Only a true gardener knows what it feels like and meeting other such gardeners is even better for just talking about gardening techniques and then the sharing of such plants is even more enjoyable, a gifted plant is always a focal point and conversation piece to remember forever. Richard

Great stuff nothing better than heading on down the road to a palm grower to purvey all those goodies unseen in the retail trade sector. You would need a truck if you came to my nursery. In my area there are only about two rare and exotic palm growers. And even then it’s a full day mission to get there and back. Head further north with overnight stays and the world of exotic palms becomes a bank account draining fueled spending spree! Richard

Yes I agree value for money, but that’s where it ends in my book. All they have is common palms, yes those common palms grow easily and they are palm so that’s not the palms fault, it’s a clever palm that has learnt to utilise humankind ensuring its survival on the planet. Palms are losing their habitat daily and are being over exploited to the point where they are being wiped out, and it’s even more critical that exotic rare palms get into cultivation and into gardens to ensure there survival, otherwise those common palms will win thay race and be the major dominant palms left on the planet! Those big chain stores have driven just about every mom and pop nursery out of business, showing no mercy in doing so. As a grower who has a palm nursery it’s near impossible to complete with such prices. This is why I chose to grow rare and exotic palms. And if i could get the prices they are getting for a golden cane or bismack palm. I would throw out my exotics and start growing bizzies and canes. But this is where I have an advantage over the big chain stores. The exotic stock may not sell by the hundreds weekly but I certainly can supply the quality along with rare exotics. I don’t grow my palms to make a million dollars I grow them for the love of palms and for the next generations to look at in wonder and glee in such beautiful exotics. So the next time you want a palm don’t over look a rare and exotic palm grower, you will have a very unique rare palm collection that will stand out leaving all those common palms way behind. And in 20 years time you look back and think iam glad I purchased those rare beautiful palms.

James, sorry I missed this. Stacey is correct. I did in fact get mine from Mark at Way to Go. The only other grower I know that could have one is Ron Lawyer in Dana Point. I know he had Lakatra, Samberiensis and possibly Julietae a while back. Give him a ring. He may not return your call immediately cuz he travels quite a bit but he’d definitely be worth checking out. Hopefully he gets back to you. I’m supposed to go to his house with a few buddies but haven’t bern able to find the time. Let me know if you don’t hear from him. Tagging me did it. Thanks Stacey. Ron Lawyer (949) 235-6187 -dale

Rats 🐀 I’ll tag Dale @Billeb in case he missed your post, but I’m pretty sure that’s where he got his as well. Hope you find one!

My family is getting ready to have our annual family week at the beach next month. We normally drive down A-1-A and have dinner at JB's Fish Camp. Last year there were lots of coconut palms planted beachside along the entire drive from our New Smyrna Beach condo. It will be interesting to see how many of those survived. If some of the Orlando coconut palms survived, I would bet that there are survivors along the ocean as we drive South along A-1-A. I will check when I am over there.

Now what is it they say, when is the best time to plant a grove of palms, 30 years ago! Seeds are yours next batch!

Anything is worth a try, I have successfully transplanted young joey palms, 2 out 6 lived so the odds on root sensitive palms are stacked against them. Iam sure though ifbi had one Joey to transplant it would most likely die. All the weddlianum I have seen transplanted have died.

Fishtail

ok,ive got problem,my palm has the twin embryo about 10 out of 100.normally its 1 in 1000ish.how many seeds do i need to crack to get average for this tree.it seems to be a genetic marvel

All coconut varieties will extend their fronds more than 3 meters when mature