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Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island


Cluster
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Yes I expect it to be warmer hence why I would pick that spot myself, however the island is not nearly as tall and bulky as Madeira so the Foehn effect won t be as great. The walls in the southwest coast are also twice as big, we only see a 0.7 C difference to Funchal old station. While I do believe there are slightly warmer zones in the south west (even in Lugar de baixo), I don't expect the difference to be 2/3 degrees from Funchal, I could be wrong. For instance Santa Maria station record 7.5 on the 14th January 2014, while the amateur station recorded 9.6, I do believe the right value is somewhere between those 2.

I think that idea would be great! João might have feedback from this winter, which I believe it was warmer than usual in all Portugal.

Edited by Cluster
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Hi all, I've been meaning to post something on my thread below but have had little time with the business affairs regarding the pandemic.

In short, the winter has been benign and official stats for Ponta Delgada show the coldest month, February, averaged 15c (59F) at the airport. Jan. was 16c average.

Data for the downtown station, a warmer spot, is not available. My Netatmo station matches the averages pretty closely.

Nevertheless, December was generally gloomy and rainy with a persistent south wind.

I had planted a stretched warehouse coconut, the kind you buy as indoor ornamental from Danish greenhouses for 20 euros. From May through December it grew roots and shot three new fronds...

In December it quickly went downhill and rotted at the base, near the nut. I removed the decaying fronds in Feb.

The nut remains on the ground and apparently rooted, but no new growth as of yet. It got pretty battered by those south winds, since I planted strategically facing south...

I'll post a fuller report on my thread but to sum up, I think that while I had good drainage too much humidity near the base with not enough sunlight and too much wind did it in. This plant had not protection at all and being a greenhouse ornamental I had little hope for it.

I will perhaps grow another one in a small greenhouse I built from reclaimed windows that will at least protect from rain until it's large enough to transplant.

December was definitely a weird moth as it also killed my largest coffee plant full of beans because it was exposed to the constant wind and in shaded spot.

On the other hand my Royal threw four new fronds over the winter and is growing great, so go figure.

 

 

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São Miguel, Azores, 37N, Zone 11B, Elevation 110m, Yearly average 18c (64F), Record low 4c (40F), Record high 30 (86F)

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Hello João,

I think you should try again and if you buy another greenhouse one, try one that is robust but as young as possible (to be less used to the greenhouse), you may also have to give it some protection during the first winter for acclimatization.

You could also try to sprout a supermarket coconut, it is cheap and fun if it works.

I look forward to your next updates,

Pedro 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys! 

Nice photos Pedro!

I was going through my vacation album and I found these photos I took in 2018: 

IMG_5317.thumb.jpg.e5483e4a38805ac791d1855f1d9e5d98.jpg

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Here you can see a young exemplar in Lido Funchal: 

IMG_5319.thumb.jpg.463f5eed39a7d793eb641242e7e2b77f.jpg

I hope you'll enjoy it!

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Hello Kevin!,

 

Thanks for the pictures!

 I actually do not know where the last coconut is located can you tell me how to get there? It looks like it may have been transplanted recently, but can't be sure. I will check it out as soon as I know where it is!

Which coconut had those many fruits? I take it, it is the dwarf one in the Marina. While it is always nice to see them fruiting they always end up trimming them (and my next pictures will prove that again...:( ).

 

 

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Hi Pedro, 

It's in a private garden just next to the Duas Torres Hotel in the lido area, in front of the Forum Madeira and the Estrada monumental: https://www.google.ch/maps/@32.6349973,-16.9418739,179m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=fr

Yes you got it right, it's the dwarf one in the Marina. 

Edited by Pargomad
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Hello Kevin,

Try not to laugh too much.

I have had dinner there plenty of times... but never checked their garden (it was always at night) !

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hello everyone, just an update to the winter pictures, but first let me show you what happened to the Green Dwarf in the marina from Early March, when I took the picture, to mid May (a friend sent me this one).

As it were in March like I showed before:

oRRJoAQ.jpg

HQhqrZZ.jpg

nJXZ9EV.jpg

 

Now look at how trimmed it was mid May:

DfM3S8i.jpg

So the fruits and many fronds were trimmed, I suspect we will only see full mature fruits in private gardens as this always happens to the public coconuts.

 

But back to early March, just before the pandemic.

The coconut from Penha de França hotel:

96V5c2p.jpg

FO4Y0qC.jpg

It is growing dam fast for what I am used to, here on the island. I speak with the gardeners all the time and they take pride, the trimming happens mostly due to frond interference with humans crossing. It gets a hose once a week till the water overflows the container, or sea water if the sea is angry:).

 

And finally the coconut from Jardim Almirante Reis, the one that has been burned before due to the fires a few years ago, it has also suffered with drought since the sprinklers were not working for a year, I have noticed the sprinklers seem dead again as the grass around it is the only place in the garden that is dry. I did speak with some locals about it, with some luck it gets fixed and the coconut won't get small fronds again:

epEDYvk.jpg

I believe the lower small fronds are still leftovers from the fires and/or drought that it experienced some years ago.

 

And that is all from now, I still want to upload a few pictures from the island I took last summer as John seems to enjoy the water. 

I am also on the island at the moment and will of course take new pictures of the coconuts, if someone needs something checked during August be sure to let me know and hope you enjoy!

 

Regards,

Pedro

Edited by Cluster
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Hello everyone. I am from Malta and I am currently experimenting with Cocos nucifera at home. These are some of my seedlings. I germinated these from dehusked coconuts meant for food consumption. 

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14 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Hello everyone. I am from Malta and I am currently experimenting with Cocos nucifera at home. These are some of my seedlings. I germinated these from dehusked coconuts meant for food consumption. 

Looking great! Nice work! I've been searching for some viable coconuts to germinate...but all to old, too dry.

Greetings, Luís

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14 minutes ago, lzorrito said:

Looking great! Nice work! I've been searching for some viable coconuts to germinate...but all to old, too dry.

I used supermarket ones mostly Lidl coconuts 

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On 8/9/2020 at 10:52 PM, Maltese coconut project said:

I used supermarket ones mostly Lidl coconuts 

Great work!, I have never been able to get them to sprout, any tips?:)

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On 8/9/2020 at 2:19 PM, Maltese coconut project said:

Hello everyone. I am from Malta and I am currently experimenting with Cocos nucifera at home. These are some of my seedlings. I germinated these from dehusked coconuts meant for food consumption. 

IMG_20200807_184217.jpg

 

Nice! Great way to germinate several at a time. A coco "community pot" as it were.

How do you heat it?

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 2.3C/36F (12/27/2015)--Lowest recent/current winter: 3C/37F (2/24/2022)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/11/2020 at 1:33 AM, GottmitAlex said:

Nice! Great way to germinate several at a time. A coco "community pot" as it were.

How do you heat it?in winter I used aquarium heating cables and as you see they are in transparent plastic boxes. In summer I switched it off because summer temperatures here are tropical type 

 

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On 8/11/2020 at 1:22 AM, Cluster said:

Great work!, I have never been able to get them to sprout, any tips?:)

Heat and humidity will do the trick. As they grow the "beak" gradually increase light. I used transparent box with aquarium heating cable. Water at the base.. Put the coconuts on their side on plant pots filled with gravel. I mist them two times daily 

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On 8/9/2020 at 11:37 PM, lzorrito said:

Looking great! Nice work! I've been searching for some viable coconuts to germinate...but all to old, too dry.

Try Lidl coconuts. They are good and from Nicaragua. I am also trying from another local supermarket who gets most of them from Ivory Coast 

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1 hour ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Try Lidl coconuts. They are good and from Nicaragua. I am also trying from another local supermarket who gets most of them from Ivory Coast 

Never saw coconuts (nut) there...only coconut trees, mine are from Lidl big box sale. Going fine...until now:hmm:.

Must keep an eye on Lidl's fruit section, then!

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Edited by lzorrito
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Greetings, Luís

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38 minutes ago, lzorrito said:

Never saw coconuts (nut) there...only coconut trees, mine are from Lidl big box sale. Going fine...until now:hmm:.

Must keep an eye on Lidl's fruit section, then!

Capturar.PNG

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I bought the food ones from Lidl and germinated them myself 

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3 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Heat and humidity will do the trick. As they grow the "beak" gradually increase light. I used transparent box with aquarium heating cable. Water at the base.. Put the coconuts on their side on plant pots filled with gravel. I mist them two times daily 

Thank you, is the box closed to trap the humidity from the water?

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On 8/22/2020 at 12:28 AM, lzorrito said:

Never saw coconuts (nut) there...only coconut trees, mine are from Lidl big box sale. Going fine...until now:hmm:.

Must keep an eye on Lidl's fruit section, then!

Capturar.PNG

P_20200724_123636_HDR.jpg

P_20200730_091553_HDR.jpg

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Yes just the ordinary dehusked ones 

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7 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Yes just the ordinary dehusked ones 

:greenthumb: As soon as get my hands on some I'll post it.

Greetings, Luís

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On 8/23/2020 at 10:22 PM, lzorrito said:

:greenthumb: As soon as get my hands on some I'll post it.

If you try a quantity at the right temperature and humid conditions I am sure it will work for you.  I am doing it in quantities.. I have more than 30 at different stages 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi there, 

 

I'm German but living on the azores, wasn't active here yet.

 

I'm currently staying in a hotel on the north shore of Sao Miguel Island and the pool area  has like 10 to 15 little palm trees (height around 3 meters) , which might be coconuts (I'm not an expert). I got really excited as I have a house with similar location and conditions, so if it is really a coconut, I would definitely try it myself. So I hope u guys can confirm to me, it's a coconut ;-) I used an app to find out the species and Cocos nucifera was the result. But I guess you guys here should definitely know better after seeing my picture. I get a bit confused as we have many different palms here and some look very similar. 

 

Thanks for giving me your thoughts :)

Maik 

IMG_20200914_140513.jpg

Edited by LustigerBub
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1 hour ago, LustigerBub said:

Hi there, 

 

I'm German but living on the azores, wasn't active here yet.

 

I'm currently staying in a hotel on the north shore of Sao Miguel Island and the pool area  has like 10 to 15 little palm trees (height around 3 meters) , which might be coconuts (I'm not an expert). I got really excited as I have a house with similar location and conditions, so if it is really a coconut, I would definitely try it myself. So I hope u guys can confirm to me, it's a coconut ;-) I used an app to find out the species and Cocos nucifera was the result. But I guess you guys here should definitely know better after seeing my picture. I get a bit confused as we have many different palms here and some look very similar. 

 

Thanks for giving me your thoughts :)

Maik 

IMG_20200914_140513.jpg

Thats interesting the Azores are supposed to be too cold in winter for Coconut survival

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LustigerBub,

You just located the furthest coconut from the equator at no less than 37.78 degrees North! This is monumental! This is more than 3° north of any existing coconut known in the world!

You noted that there were numerous additional coconuts in this area. Please immediately take additional pictures. I have long speculated with many others that the Azores had the potential for the furthest coconut from the equator. Together with the gulf stream waters, the volcanic nature of the soil and its inherent heat creates the perfect storm which allows Cocos nucifera to survive. We need more and more and more! Thank you. You have made history!

What you look for is what is looking

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14 minutes ago, bubba said:

LustigerBub,

You just located the furthest coconut from the equator at no less than 37.78 degrees North! This is monumental! This is more than 3° north of any existing coconut known in the world!

You noted that there were numerous additional coconuts in this area. Please immediately take additional pictures. I have long speculated with many others that the Azores had the potential for the furthest coconut from the equator. Together with the gulf stream waters, the volcanic nature of the soil and its inherent heat creates the perfect storm which allows Cocos nucifera to survive. We need more and more and more! Thank you. You have made history!

It’s definitely Howea forsteriana. I’d be surprised if there’s anywhere at either 38N or 38S in the world with enough heat to sustain a coconut. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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Tim,

You may well be correct! That stated, the extreme heat in the soil near the volcanic activity combined with a temperature that is  substantially aided by the constant warmth of the gulf stream creates a possibility. I may have over spoken and apologize but I would request more pictures.

Furthermore, I would renew my request that attempts be made to establish Cocos nucifera in the most favored areas of the volcanic Azores, where the heat of the soil combined with the warmth of the Gulf Stream may produce unexpected success!

What you look for is what is looking

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5 hours ago, LustigerBub said:

Hi there, 

 

I'm German but living on the azores, wasn't active here yet.

 

I'm currently staying in a hotel on the north shore of Sao Miguel Island and the pool area  has like 10 to 15 little palm trees (height around 3 meters) , which might be coconuts (I'm not an expert). I got really excited as I have a house with similar location and conditions, so if it is really a coconut, I would definitely try it myself. So I hope u guys can confirm to me, it's a coconut ;-) I used an app to find out the species and Cocos nucifera was the result. But I guess you guys here should definitely know better after seeing my picture. I get a bit confused as we have many different palms here and some look very similar. 

 

Thanks for giving me your thoughts :)

Maik 

IMG_20200914_140513.jpg

It's a lovely looking palm but definitely a Kentia and unfortunately not a coconut.

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2 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

It’s definitely Howea forsteriana. I’d be surprised if there’s anywhere at either 38N or 38S in the world with enough heat to sustain a coconut. 

This.

And welcome to the forum @LustigerBub.

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 2.3C/36F (12/27/2015)--Lowest recent/current winter: 3C/37F (2/24/2022)

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Thank you for the many answers on this. I was somehow expecting it would not be a coconut. Would've been too good to be true. :D

The Howea looks pretty similar to a coconut, so I will def decide for a Howea for my home to give me some "coconut feel" at least. 

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Welcome Maik. Yes, indeed these are Kentias and I know them well. They were just transplanted there a year ago and look pretty good given such proximity to the ocean, sea salt and wind. Kentias are very common on the island and yes, some look so coconuty that they can mislead even an "expert" until they look a little closer. Here's the latest photo of one of our young Kentias, located about on 1.5 km inland from the hotel location in your photo.

On the other hand, there are people trying coconuts on the island. I've had a couple of attempts and am now trying to germinate a supermarket coconut. 

Bubba, I believe that at an early stage pineapple greenhouses across the island would be the best way to acclimate a young coconut before transfering outdoors. Also, wine currals in Pico island with lots of black stone resulting in lots of heat could also work. Volcanic heat from the soil is something to think about, although those sources of heat are generally at higher, cooler hillside locations.

IMG_20200905_120146_1.jpg

São Miguel, Azores, 37N, Zone 11B, Elevation 110m, Yearly average 18c (64F), Record low 4c (40F), Record high 30 (86F)

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23 minutes ago, Shoowow said:

Welcome Maik. Yes, indeed these are Kentias and I know them well. They were just transplanted there a year ago and look pretty good given such proximity to the ocean, sea salt and wind. Kentias are very common on the island and yes, some look so coconuty that they can mislead even an "expert" until they look a little closer. Here's the latest photo of one of our young Kentias, located about on 1.5 km inland from the hotel location in your photo.

On the other hand, there are people trying coconuts on the island. I've had a couple of attempts and am now trying to germinate a supermarket coconut. 

Bubba, I believe that at an early stage pineapple greenhouses across the island would be the best way to acclimate a young coconut before transfering outdoors. Also, wine currals in Pico island with lots of black stone resulting in lots of heat could also work. Volcanic heat from the soil is something to think about, although those sources of heat are generally at higher, cooler hillside locations.

IMG_20200905_120146_1.jpg

Thanks for clarification :) your kentia is gorgeous. I need one too :D 

 

I hope we will manage to grow a healthy coconut in the future. If it's possible to grow healthy Cocos on Madeira, I bet there's a chance for the azores too. 

 

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19 minutes ago, LustigerBub said:

Thanks for clarification :) your kentia is gorgeous. I need one too :D 

 

I hope we will manage to grow a healthy coconut in the future. If it's possible to grow healthy Cocos on Madeira, I bet there's a chance for the azores too. 

 

 

Have a try mate, the worst that can happen is it won't work but it's worth a shot. I've got one growing in my climate and they're not supposed to grow here but if you give it plenty of protection over the cool months you might have a chance. Good luck!

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Nice to see Azores interested as well, would be nice to share the experience with any of you! I have to say that regardless of having been studying cocos and their fruiting conditions in marginal climates, I still feel like I have a lot to discover. You guys could really try one of those lidl coconuts, give it some protection during the first winter or two and try to plant it in a soil with good drainage, avoiding watering it during the winter.

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On 9/19/2020 at 4:42 PM, Maltese coconut project said:

Some update on my coconut seedlings in Malta 

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Keep them out this winter to see which one lives? They are beautiful....

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Hello guys,

It is cool to see Malta and Azores trying their luck with the coconut fever, even if chances of success are not set in stone, do try different methods if it fails in your first attempts.

Before updating this year's coconuts, here are some of the pictures from summer 2019, which I took while travelling from place to place, sometimes on a coconut hunt!

3HyoiMm.jpg

PX96NEx.jpg

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baZTMwc.jpg

VpgbUlo.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Hello guys,

It is cool to see Malta and Azores trying their luck with the coconut fever, even if chances of success are not set in stone, do try different methods if it fails in your first attempts.

Before updating this year's coconuts, here are some of the pictures from summer 2019, which I took while travelling from place to place, sometimes on a coconut hunt!

Thanks for sharing! Madeira, the pearl of the Atlantic, enchanting as always! I simply love Madeira's north coast. You should post some Laurissilva forest photos. That "Cabeço Penha d'Águia" photo is just great. BTW, what about some Botanical garden photos...and also some from the private "secret gardens" on Funchal's hills and their amazing palms?

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Greetings, Luís

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On 9/25/2020 at 9:22 AM, Aleitalyyy said:

Keep them out this winter to see which one lives? They are beautiful....

I will take them downstairs. I have an entrance with a ceiling from which light passes through from the east. I will put some in our small garden too sheltered under the terrace

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