Texas Palms

[ahosey01]

Bottomed out at 50F here tonight.  Even 51F in Laguna Vista on Weather Underground.  Saw a 44F reading in Edinburg and a 43F reading in Laredo by LCB.

[Xenon]

43 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Bottomed out at 50F here tonight.  Even 51F in Laguna Vista on Weather Underground.  Saw a 44F reading in Edinburg and a 43F reading in Laredo by LCB.

Meanwhile toasty Port Isabel/SPI...the Laguna Madre still too warm 😆 

 

North Padre @Dwarf Fan

[Dwarf Fan]

13 hours ago, Xenon said:

NWS has you staying above 60F. Always recommend the NWS point forecast...you can click anywhere on the minimap to get a precise forecast. 

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-97.23329544486478&lat=27.608464077926115

Yea that is solid advice, I use it to check ultimate lows and my weather bug neighbor always uses NOAA for all his weather info, thanks for the reminder Google weather is trash in terms of accuracy.

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Meanwhile toasty Port Isabel/SPI...the Laguna Madre still too warm 😆 

North Padre @Dwarf Fan

Woot, there is a reason Corpus Christi is so Palm heavy, as they say in the real estate world LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. ☀️🌴 😎

[RedRabbit]

Chilly morning!

 

[Robert Cade Ross]

👀

[Chester B]

I went down to 44F, according to the NWS.  I'm the third house from Lake Houston, so I seem to get a 2-3 degree bump with the water radiating some heat, compared to homes further away.  Will this hold out during a real cold event in Jan or Feb when the lake has cooled down, time will only tell. 

[Dwarf Fan]

29 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I went down to 44F, according to the NWS.  I'm the third house from Lake Houston, so I seem to get a 2-3 degree bump with the water radiating some heat, compared to homes further away.  Will this hold out during a real cold event in Jan or Feb when the lake has cooled down, time will only tell. 

Same here Laguna Madre is at 66F keeping us nice and cozy. February is definitely gonna be a point of interest for us all this year.

[Xenon]

48 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

👀

My garden near Katy I-10 bottomed out at 39.9F (let's call it 40F, looks nicer) according to the Davis Vantage Pro2 PWS across the street. 

Warmest reading near town were 45-46F from the stretch around Midtown to West University Place. 42-44F elsewhere in Loop 610. 

Looks like the immediate shoreline of Bacliff and all of San Leon stayed above 50F.

Icebox Alvin

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I was surprised to see my personal weather station showing 40° @545 this morning in Santa Fe 😳 Hoping this isn't indicative to what kind of winter we will have. I would like to go a winter without doing any drastic measures to save palms from the cold haha 

T J 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

My garden near Katy I-10 bottomed out at 39.9F (let's call it 40F, looks nicer) according to the Davis Vantage Pro2 PWS across the street. 

Warmest reading near town were 45-46F from the stretch around Midtown to West University Place. 42-44F elsewhere in Loop 610. 

Looks like the immediate shoreline of Bacliff and all of San Leon stayed above 50F.

Icebox Alvin

I live where the black dot is . 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 minute ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I was surprised to see my personal weather station showing 40° @545 this morning in Santa Fe 😳 Hoping this isn't indicative to what kind of winter we will have. I would like to go a winter without doing any drastic measures to save palms from the cold haha 

T J 

On a positive note today I’ve got my first copernicia Alba sprout ! 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Just now, Robert Cade Ross said:

On a positive note today I’ve got my first copernicia Alba sprout ! 

That's awesome I got some Copernicia Baileyana sprouting right now. We can trade some day ! 

T J 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

4 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

I live where the black dot is .

I'm not too far from you ! 

[Robert Cade Ross]

6 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I'm not too far from you ! 

I’ve got a ton of cool palms germinating currently so if you are interested in the future I’m happy to trade stuff 🤙

[MarcusH]

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

My garden near Katy I-10 bottomed out at 39.9F (let's call it 40F, looks nicer) according to the Davis Vantage Pro2 PWS across the street. 

Warmest reading near town were 45-46F from the stretch around Midtown to West University Place. 42-44F elsewhere in Loop 610. 

Looks like the immediate shoreline of Bacliff and all of San Leon stayed above 50F.

Icebox Alvin

What weather app are you  using and how do they determine how cold it got at a specific location other than using the data from official weather stations?  

[kinzyjr]

@MarcusH The screenshot in the quote looks like the WunderMap feature on Weather Underground (Wunderground).  The temperature readings are primarily from Personal Weather Stations (PWS).  Some of them aren't high quality devices or are not sited all that well, but there are a lot of people who site them correctly, buy exceptionally high-grade equipment, and take great care to ensure accuracy.  It's a great tool to use so long as you keep in mind it relies on consensus of the nodes in a given area to ensure accuracy.

[JeskiM]

I bottomed out at 34 F this morning here in Georgetown. No frost in my hood, but saw some in spots just east of town. Leander was at 29 F.  Muldoon was at 28 F. I think those reporting stations are both located ib low lying areas and typically run colder.

The weekend right after Thanksgiving may see the first light freeze at my house. 

-Matt

[ahosey01]

8 hours ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

I’ve got a ton of cool palms germinating currently so if you are interested in the future I’m happy to trade stuff 🤙

If you're germinating any Caryota holler at me.

[Chester B]

4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@MarcusH The screenshot in the quote looks like the WunderMap feature on Weather Underground (Wunderground).  The temperature readings are primarily from Personal Weather Stations (PWS).  Some of them aren't high quality devices or are not sited all that well, but there are a lot of people who site them correctly, buy exceptionally high-grade equipment, and take great care to ensure accuracy.  It's a great tool to use so long as you keep in mind it relies on consensus of the nodes in a given area to ensure accuracy.

I have a lot of weather stations very close to my house.  I take the general consensus, there always seems to be correlation between the stations for the most part.

[_nevi]

On 11/18/2024 at 10:26 PM, Xenon said:

Houston queens aren't like sandy Florida queens 😝, must be something about the heavy gumbo clay. They love it! Only place I've seen consistently good queens in Florida is closer to Jacksonville. Queens love the New Orleans swamp too.  Not century level bulletproof in any of those places but "zone push" is ridiculous lol. 

Let's make queens the #1 by a landslide most common pinnate palm in Houston again. But on private property so the other people in this thread don't raise the pitchforks LOL

Yes here's your bimonthly dose of luxuriant Houston queens a la broken record😄 . This thread needs more positivity .

I've heard that about queens regarding the soil preferences. Jacksonville (and other parts of North Florida) do have more clay in their soil (more terrigenous)  compared to the more predominant sand/limestone seen in peninsular Florida: of course, the milder winters in Jacksonville/First Coast area allows for better specimen compared to farther west in the Florida Panhandle.

I wonder if soil pH matters too? Because Jacksonville's soil is acidic. But in Houston, the "heavy gumbo clay" has alkaline in deeper layers ... but acidic in top layers (which is what allows pine trees to even be planted in the first place). But the old growth specimen all looked good regardless.

But overall (imo): I think queens look better as a taller, more gracile palm, whereas mules look better as a shorter/stockier option. Not a fan of butias at all.

[_nevi]

On 11/18/2024 at 9:58 PM, MarcusH said:

That's SA for you.  It's a city in decline.  Those dead palms would have been cut down in most other states. Not here.  No city code enforcement,  nothing,  because nobody cares in this city. 

 

On 11/18/2024 at 10:04 PM, fr8train said:

A part of me honestly likes that. I'm not a fan of overregulation. But I would think as a business, home, or just land owner you'd want to maintain your property of your own free will. 

Like it costs money to plant palms and landscape, it also costs money and time to cut them down and remove them. I can understand if the owners really can't afford it, but a lot of them are on business property. Rent a chainsaw and do it yourself if you have to, I can't imagine it's that expensive. 

What both of you refer to is precisely why I recommend planting queens (or mules) in place of washingtonia robusta (assuming that both sabal palmetto and sabal mexicana are unavailable). 

Even at their tallest, queens still are shorter than washingtonia robusta. Ideally, there would be no cold-snaps of course ... but even if they occur, then removing the smaller queen palm trunks would be much easier/lest costly compared to the washingtonia telephone poles. 

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, _nevi said:

 

What both of you refer to is precisely why I recommend planting queens (or mules) in place of washingtonia robusta (assuming that both sabal palmetto and sabal mexicana are unavailable). 

Even at their tallest, queens still are shorter than washingtonia robusta. Ideally, there would be no cold-snaps of course ... but even if they occur, then removing the smaller queen palm trunks would be much easier/lest costly compared to the washingtonia telephone poles. 

Less fun to remove for this guy, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo2NR8zcSgI

[Robert Cade Ross]

Palm weevils are out for vengeance on the cidps in Galveston 😭😭😭😭  

[_nevi]

On 11/20/2024 at 9:11 PM, Xenon said:

So looking at the last 30 winter seasons at Houston Hobby gives a 43% chance of a zone 10 winter and a 10% chance of a zone 8 winter. May the odds be in our favor guys 😄😂

Zone 10 winter seasons 🌴: 

2019-2020
2018-2019
2015-2016
2014-2015
2012-2013
2011-2012
2008-2009
2007-2008
2005-2006
2003-2004
1999-2000
1997-1998
1994-1995

Zone 8 winter seasons (BOOOO!!!!):

2022-2023
2020-2021
2017-2018

Indeed. And even the Jan 2018 teens occurrence was very brief (intra-hourlies, from what I gather reading older posts on this site).

[PA-TX2024]

Found a Washingtonia growing on the side of Sycamore and San Antonio Street in NB. What kind of Washingtonia is this?

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, PA-TX2024 said:

Found a Washingtonia growing on the side of Sycamore and San Antonio Street in NB. What kind of Washingtonia is this?

If it’s a random Washingtonia growing where there are no others then I probably planted it. I planted mostly Filifera but I tossed some robusta seeds as well. I went full Johnny Palmseed a few times tossing them around town. It’s easy and effective. 
 

Notice there are small to medium palms coming up everywhere. Some of mine from 10 plus years ago are getting huge. I planted the ones in front of Arby’s, Valmark, and Bluebonnett. Some of those are seeding now. 

[PA-TX2024]

9 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

If it’s a random Washingtonia growing where there are no others then I probably planted it. I planted mostly Filifera but I tossed some robusta seeds as well. I went full Johnny Palmseed a few times tossing them around town. It’s easy and effective. 
 

Notice there are small to medium palms coming up everywhere. Some of mine from 10 plus years ago are getting huge. I planted the ones in front of Arby’s, Valmark, and Bluebonnett. Some of those are seeding now. 

Looks like this one is Robusta. The Filferas at Jason's Deli are still growing strong.

[PA-TX2024]

Got a Robusta heavy hybrid on i-35, NB

[Robert Cade Ross]

Found a random double today 🤙

[RedRabbit]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:32 PM, Robert Cade Ross said:

Palm weevils are out for vengeance on the cidps in Galveston 😭😭😭😭  

 

 

Great to see some royals!

On 11/21/2024 at 11:03 AM, Xenon said:

My garden near Katy I-10 bottomed out at 39.9F (let's call it 40F, looks nicer) according to the Davis Vantage Pro2 PWS across the street. 

 

Interesting, we are practically neighbors. (At least by Texas standards where apparently a city can span 100 miles.)

[Chester B]

Visited the Bismarckia at Enchanted Gardens today.  Mexicana in the same garden as well. 

[Xenon]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:50 PM, _nevi said:

 

What both of you refer to is precisely why I recommend planting queens (or mules) in place of washingtonia robusta (assuming that both sabal palmetto and sabal mexicana are unavailable). 

Even at their tallest, queens still are shorter than washingtonia robusta. Ideally, there would be no cold-snaps of course ... but even if they occur, then removing the smaller queen palm trunks would be much easier/lest costly compared to the washingtonia telephone poles. 

I miss palmy Little Saigon/Chinatown 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Visited the Bismarckia at Enchanted Gardens today.  Mexicana in the same garden as well. 

Bismarck should send out full size fronds by April or June hopefully if no more freezes below 24° happen lol 

[Xenon]

Does anyone know if that Bismarckia was wrapped/protected in some way? Its survival isn't consistent with the range for survival (south of Clear Lake) I've seen. Strange because there were dozens and dozens of mature Bismarckia scattered elsewhere in central/west Houston and I don't think any of them survived. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

14 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Does anyone know if that Bismarckia was wrapped/protected in some way? Its survival isn't consistent with the range for survival (south of Clear Lake) I've seen. Strange because there were dozens and dozens of mature Bismarckia scattered elsewhere in central/west Houston and I don't think any of them survived. 

I called them last year actually and asked if it was protected the dude who answered the phone said no .. I would visit it but it’s so far out of the way for me haha 

[Chester B]

10 hours ago, Xenon said:

Does anyone know if that Bismarckia was wrapped/protected in some way? Its survival isn't consistent with the range for survival (south of Clear Lake) I've seen. Strange because there were dozens and dozens of mature Bismarckia scattered elsewhere in central/west Houston and I don't think any of them survived. 

I don’t think it was because when I saw it after the freeze this last January it had lost most of its fronds. The trunk has some damage to it as well. Never mind the fact that it really huge. The photos don’t do a good job of showing the scale.  Next time I’m down there I’ll as about it. It’s a pretty decent nursery with a wide selection of just about everything and the prices are pretty good too. 

[RedRabbit]

14 hours ago, Xenon said:

Does anyone know if that Bismarckia was wrapped/protected in some way? Its survival isn't consistent with the range for survival (south of Clear Lake) I've seen. Strange because there were dozens and dozens of mature Bismarckia scattered elsewhere in central/west Houston and I don't think any of them survived. 

That’s very interesting, maybe the palm just has good genetics. I understand this species has quite a bit of variance in cold tolerance from one specimen to another.
Based on what I saw from the cold event last week, Richmond doesn’t appear have a favorable climate. 

[Xenon]

12 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

 Richmond doesn’t appear have a favorable climate. 

Yep, it's generally a cold area. I would go as far to say that it was outside of the 1990-2020 "queen palm zone" (yes maybe you might've found a few stragglers). It's actually usually warmer just to the NE in Pecan Grove closer to SH 99 and also 99 closer to Sugar Land which are inside the "queen palm zone". 

But 2021 didn't really follow any of the rules of the prior 30 years, it was +/- a freeze directly correlated with latitude. And Richmond does roughly fall in line with Friendswood/League City (where you do see Bismarckia survivors). I've seen some nearly "pure" looking Washingtonia robusta in nearby Rosenberg too, which would place it in line with eastern Katy/Energy Corridor (not usually the case). 

[ahosey01]

50 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

That’s very interesting, maybe the palm just has good genetics. I understand this species has quite a bit of variance in cold tolerance from one specimen to another.
Based on what I saw from the cold event last week, Richmond doesn’t appear have a favorable climate. 

Could also just be the size.

I suspect some very large palms that haven't been in cultivation terribly long that are otherwise leaf sensitive could survive a fairly significant freeze event if given a favorable climate in other years due simply to the amount of meat on the bud that would have to get frozen through to kill it.

Some of the big Copernicia come to mind here.

I'm also not that smart, so take everything I say with a grain of salt lol

[Dwarf Fan]

1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

That’s very interesting, maybe the palm just has good genetics. I understand this species has quite a bit of variance in cold tolerance from one specimen to another.
Based on what I saw from the cold event last week, Richmond doesn’t appear have a favorable climate. 

I can anecdotally confirm there is definitely a variance in the cold tolerance as many Bismarckia on North Padre died in Palmageddon’21 and inexplicably there are some that survived. I don’t believe siting was a significant factor so I lean on genetic variance.