What palms grow in Brisbane, AU?

[_nevi]

5 hours ago, Daryl said:

Almost on the money...😄

Believe it or not there are quite a few mature 'true' filifera's growing here. Same for Rhapidophyllum hystrix...no issues there...Trachycarpus fortunei, however, just about all the old ones I have seen could be classed as 'dwarfs' LOL. But if you drive to the mountains an hour south of Brisbane you will see them growing to perfection.  As Peachy mentioned before, the microclimates here vary substantially.   As for ultratropical, correct,  things like Cyrtostachys renda will not establish and survive long term in the ground. They grow perfectly well as a potted patio palm, but put their rootball in the ground and they die...soil temps stay too cool in the winter. There is always hope though 🙂 . The hybrid is easy here though. There are quite a few 'ultras' that give us a challenge!  

The biggest issue to growing palms in Brisbane is the prolonged drought periods we get some years. Keeping them watered is a challenge.

Are the drought periods in the Brisbane area confined strictly to the cooler part of the year? Or do they also manifest even in the warmer part (particularly core Dec-March period)?

The reason that I ask is that I notice the Australian BOM tends to utilize shorter climate record periods (like 10-20ish years) compared to USA's 30-year normals (at least, going by the sourced weather charts that I see on Wiki). Hence, I was curious as to any longer-term tendencies:

• Basically, I've noticed a trend on the Australian east coast wherein both the northern (Cairns, Innisfail, etc) and southern (Byron Bay, Coff's Harbour, Lismore, etc) regions are very wet, while areas central towards like Townsville are comparatively drier.
• So, I didn't know if these variations of rainfall were simply the coastal orientation (and resultant effects from prevailing winds like the trades)? Or if it had to do with alignment of/proximity to very high elevations (and resultant orographic precipitation). Or simply latitude (in case that "extratropical east coast lows" south or "monsoonal ITCZ" north had to do with it).

 

[Cluster]

6 hours ago, Daryl said:

Almost on the money...😄

Believe it or not there are quite a few mature 'true' filifera's growing here. Same for Rhapidophyllum hystrix...no issues there...Trachycarpus fortunei, however, just about all the old ones I have seen could be classed as 'dwarfs' LOL. But if you drive to the mountains an hour south of Brisbane you will see them growing to perfection.  As Peachy mentioned before, the microclimates here vary substantially.   As for ultratropical, correct,  things like Cyrtostachys renda will not establish and survive long term in the ground. They grow perfectly well as a potted patio palm, but put their rootball in the ground and they die...soil temps stay too cool in the winter. There is always hope though 🙂 . The hybrid is easy here though. There are quite a few 'ultras' that give us a challenge!  

The biggest issue to growing palms in Brisbane is the prolonged drought periods we get some years. Keeping them watered is a challenge.

 

 

I do not understand why it would be different in the pot, the mean temperature should be about the same, maybe with more extremes (a bit warmer during the day and colder during the night), so I would imagine the main difference would be soil quality/compatibility/drainage or the pot being able to stay in a warmer place (a balcony tends to be warmer, especially during the day than a pot in a garden)? The impression I have is that palms tend to thrive better if they are on ground, all the other variables being the same.

[Daryl]

The drought periods can be very prolongued, recently one was quite a few months. A lot of palms around town were reduced to spears, namely Archontophoenix, but any water lover was severely affected, unless well irrigated. Some years, with dry weather it is amost impossible to keep the palms watered enough, and the poor soils here contribute to that as well. This can happen typically in Spring and summer, especially with El Nino influence. Some years the rain is only via storms and so some areas can totally miss out on rain, whilst others will cop  a few heavy storms and get plenty of rain. Winter here is typically quite dry, but cool so not too much of an issue. However if you don't get significant precipitation from May to December, it has a severe impact. Other years, we get flooding rain for months LOL.

[Daryl]

On 2/21/2024 at 3:36 AM, Cluster said:

I do not understand why it would be different in the pot, the mean temperature should be about the same, maybe with more extremes (a bit warmer during the day and colder during the night), so I would imagine the main difference would be soil quality/compatibility/drainage or the pot being able to stay in a warmer place (a balcony tends to be warmer, especially during the day than a pot in a garden)? The impression I have is that palms tend to thrive better if they are on ground, all the other variables being the same.

Simply letting the early morning sun warm up the pot is enough to keep the mix warm enough for them. Also watering with warm water helps. The biggest killer is letting them dry out. Also, sitting on a slab of sun-warmed concrete can't be a bad thing...😀

 

 

[Daryl]

A few more from around Brisbane suburbs

[Kim]

Really excellent photos, thank you Daryl!

Brisbane sounds like an attractive stop for a couple of days after the IPS New Caledonia trip. 

[mnorell]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:49 AM, _nevi said:

Would you say that the raphidophyllum hystrix specimens in Miami grow more beautifully than those in the colder winter, northern portions of their SE US range? When I brought up that species, as well as trachycarpus fortunei, I was thinking more along the lines of if there were "chilling hour requirements" and such for those palms — if so, then that would be a factor that retards growth (if not outright declines) in warm, frost-free Brisbane (and Miami) ... whereas in colder winter areas of the American Deep South, the cold spells can be enough to satisfy the "chilling requirements" despite the summer heat and humidity. 

But yes, raphidophyllum hystrix does thrive better in heat and humidity, with trachycarpus fortunei looking less adaptable. And, of course, aesthetic preferences of archontophoenix, coccothrinax, licuala, etc can also dictate the commonality of those palms compared to the hardier species (in addition to any sourcing factors).

 

The Rhapidophyllum I've seen in Miami (at Fairchild) was in excellent condition last I saw it.

In re a chilling requirement...palms don't behave usually like temperate dicot plants that need a chilling season...however, this study seems to indicate that this species may just have something like that going on. However, I'm a bit dubious of the statement that the seeds need summer temps of 25C night/30C day before the eophyll emerges. I've been around these palms in cool areas like Lago di Como/Bellagio, Paris, London/UK, etc., where temps of 25C nights/30C days would be highly irregular. And yet the palm obviously grows quite nicely in those places, and self-sews in chilly Switzerland and other such climes.

[_nevi]

On 2/21/2024 at 3:26 PM, Daryl said:

The drought periods can be very prolongued, recently one was quite a few months. A lot of palms around town were reduced to spears, namely Archontophoenix, but any water lover was severely affected, unless well irrigated. Some years, with dry weather it is amost impossible to keep the palms watered enough, and the poor soils here contribute to that as well. This can happen typically in Spring and summer, especially with El Nino influence. Some years the rain is only via storms and so some areas can totally miss out on rain, whilst others will cop  a few heavy storms and get plenty of rain. Winter here is typically quite dry, but cool so not too much of an issue. However if you don't get significant precipitation from May to December, it has a severe impact. Other years, we get flooding rain for months LOL.

Indeed — the warmer that temperatures are, the more important that rainfall becomes.

Does the Australian monsoon extend to Brisbane some years? That would help with rainfall ... but even then, things can desiccate without ample dry season rains (i.e. look how dry Dawin is in the dry season vs Cairns).

[Albey]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:13 AM, GottmitAlex said:

Just curious. I know Sydney is at 32°S (give or take) and Brisbane 27°S.  9 hour drive between each other.   

I wonder what palms do people grow in Brisbane. 

 

Thanks

 

Just about anything you want.

[Foxpalms]

On 2/22/2024 at 7:36 AM, mnorell said:

The Rhapidophyllum I've seen in Miami (at Fairchild) was in excellent condition last I saw it.

In re a chilling requirement...palms don't behave usually like temperate dicot plants that need a chilling season...however, this study seems to indicate that this species may just have something like that going on. However, I'm a bit dubious of the statement that the seeds need summer temps of 25C night/30C day before the eophyll emerges. I've been around these palms in cool areas like Lago di Como/Bellagio, Paris, London/UK, etc., where temps of 25C nights/30C days would be highly irregular. And yet the palm obviously grows quite nicely in those places, and self-sews in chilly Switzerland and other such climes.

They definitely don't need temps that high. In London they won't grow as fast as they would in warm subtropical or tropical climates but it still grows fine. I have heard people say the same thing about sabals will grow just fine here.

[Daryl]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:09 PM, Kim said:

Really excellent photos, thank you Daryl!

Brisbane sounds like an attractive stop for a couple of days after the IPS New Caledonia trip. 

Sounds like an ideal opportunity while you are down in this part of the world...I'm quite happy to be a tour guide for anybody interested in coming over...🙂

[Daryl]

8 hours ago, _nevi said:

Indeed — the warmer that temperatures are, the more important that rainfall becomes.

Does the Australian monsoon extend to Brisbane some years? That would help with rainfall ... but even then, things can desiccate without ample dry season rains (i.e. look how dry Dawin is in the dry season vs Cairns).

Yes, it does have some effect at times...if we get a large trough extending down from the north, it will bring lots of rain and storms. There are many influences on the weather here.

[Harry’s Palms]

Daryl , I think in the seventh photo there is a L. Australis? I have a young one and there aren't many around here that are more mature, just a few. The ones I have seen are really nice with the divided palmate , cascading fronds. 

Harry

[kentiapalma]

I don't see many Coco Nucifera in Brisbane. Can we draw a line somewhere on the map that divides the areas in QLD where they grow plenty and where they become rather rare? 

[Jonathan]

9 hours ago, kentiapalma said:

I don't see many Coco Nucifera in Brisbane. Can we draw a line somewhere on the map that divides the areas in QLD where they grow plenty and where they become rather rare? 

No, I don't think that we can. You have to go a lot further south, ie down to the NSW north coast. I've seen them at least as far south as Brooms Head at 29 degrees south...about 15Okm south of the border. Not the best specimens but still pretty happy.

[Daryl]

On 2/24/2024 at 2:26 AM, Harry’s Palms said:

Daryl , I think in the seventh photo there is a L. Australis? I have a young one and there aren't many around here that are more mature, just a few. The ones I have seen are really nice with the divided palmate , cascading fronds. 

Harry

Hi Harry, the palm in the seventh photo of the last lot I posted is Cryosphila from memory

[Daryl]

On 8/8/2024 at 1:54 PM, kentiapalma said:

I don't see many Coco Nucifera in Brisbane. Can we draw a line somewhere on the map that divides the areas in QLD where they grow plenty and where they become rather rare? 

Coconuts do fine here...not as nice as in the true tropics, but still look good, produce fruit and survive long term. I've seen them in most suburbs, even the inland ones, and in fact one at Goodna produces fruit. Yes, they aren't on every street corner like the north of the state, but I would estimate I have seen several thousand in this area (the ones in people's front yards and public plantings). I have grown both tall varieties and Golden Malay Dwarfs in my previous gardens which weren't in the warmest microclimates either. 

regards,

Daryl

[flplantguy]

Its like my area without the major advective events we get in Florida. So much you can grow with some knowledge and effort. Im a little jealous of the M. Darianii mine is not as happy and very small.