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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


Sabal King

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3 hours ago, RJ said:

how did your yatay x mule do? I think you have one from the same batch I do. 

Zero damage not event the slightest burn. Rock solid plam.

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Paul Gallop

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25 minutes ago, Gallop said:

Zero damage not event the slightest burn. Rock solid plam.

Cant wait to mine in the ground. What has it seen for lows so I can get a ball park idea of how mine might be? 

Edited by RJ
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15 hours ago, RJ said:

Cant wait to mine in the ground. What has it seen for lows so I can get a ball park idea of how mine might be? 

RJ, A coupe years ago it saw a few days of temps at 18-19f. Low this year was 21f, also withstood periods of below freezing temps for multiple days. No damage was noted. 

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Paul Gallop

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On 3/4/2023 at 11:27 AM, RJ said:

Cant wait to mine in the ground. What has it seen for lows so I can get a ball park idea of how mine might be? 

Yata x Mule in back ground. The Cycas panzhihuaensis x multifrondis got smoked..

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Edited by Gallop
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Paul Gallop

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1 hour ago, Gallop said:

Yata x Mule in back ground. The Cycas panzhihuaensis x multifrondis got smoked..

 

A couple years ago I did some digging for the pollen donor. I believe it’s a tree that Gary Lavigne has in his collection, that was produced by Dr. Wilcox . It’s an enormous mule. 

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4 hours ago, RJ said:

A couple years ago I did some digging for the pollen donor. I believe it’s a tree that Gary Lavigne has in his collection, that was produced by Dr. Wilcox . It’s an enormous mule. 

It’s a robust palm for sure!

Paul Gallop

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3 hours ago, Gallop said:

It’s a robust palm for sure!

The pollen donor was an F2 off spring of the giant mule at HFG in CA that Gary grew at his place. Dr. Wilcox donated to HFG probably in the mid 90’s. Apparently this F1 mule produces viable seeds. 
 

here is the F1 :

 

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Quick question on pruning after freeze. This is a mule palm. Survived the polar freeze three years ago and the latest one. The heart is still growing well, I believe. Hard to see inside but looks to be green and growing. Question-prune the brown fronds or leave then until they fall off?

image.jpeg

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13 minutes ago, Desert Badger said:

Quick question on pruning after freeze. This is a mule palm. Survived the polar freeze three years ago and the latest one. The heart is still growing well, I believe. Hard to see inside but looks to be green and growing. Question-prune the brown fronds or leave then until they fall off?

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Most mules are bad at self cleaning, but the image is very small so I cant tell if the larger fronds are completly brown or have some green on them, rule of thumb is do NOT cut if they have any green left on them, the energy produced from the remaining photosynthesizing cells will speed recovery of the new growth. 

Lucas

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As long as your fronds aren't crispy and still has some green don't cut it until new fronds come out. When that happens you can cut those fronds even there's a little green on the petiole because that's where things start to change the palm is focusing on new growth but still tries to keep the old ones alive. 

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30 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Most mules are bad at self cleaning, but the image is very small so I cant tell if the larger fronds are completly brown or have some green on them, rule of thumb is do NOT cut if they have any green left on them, the energy produced from the remaining photosynthesizing cells will speed recovery of the new growth. 

 

12 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

As long as your fronds aren't crispy and still has some green don't cut it until new fronds come out. When that happens you can cut those fronds even there's a little green on the petiole because that's where things start to change the palm is focusing on new growth but still tries to keep the old ones alive. 

Many thanks! Here is a closer picture. The leaves on the fronds are brown but the stem still has green. Can’t really see the heart as it is quite tall and the fronds are thick around the center. But guessing leave them for now?

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1 minute ago, Desert Badger said:

 

Many thanks! Here is a closer picture. The leaves on the fronds are brown but the stem still has green. Can’t really see the heart as it is quite tall and the fronds are thick around the center. But guessing leave them for now?

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Cut the ones with a little green left . Then another week or two cut the rest . 

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1 minute ago, MarcusH said:

Cut the ones with a little green left . Then another week or two cut the rest . 

Where are you located and also what low temperatures did you get over there ? I'd like to see how much more cold hardier and leaf hardier a mule is compared to a queen . 

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44 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Where are you located and also what low temperatures did you get over there ? I'd like to see how much more cold hardier and leaf hardier a mule is compared to a queen . 

We live north of Houston in The Woodlands. It got down to 17 at night. Had three nights where it got to a hard freeze. I wrapped the trunks and hearts in incandescent Christmas lights and then a blanket around that. I originally had Queens and they didn’t survive at 20 degrees. Attached is a picture of one of my three mules that I thought I lost. All the fronds actually dropped on their own and the heart was mushy. But, the heart kept growing. Lots of hydrogen peroxide and fungus preventer looks like it may have saved it. Growing fast and sturdy now.  
Again, appreciate everyone’s help and advice on this site.  

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Edited by Desert Badger
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1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Where are you located and also what low temperatures did you get over there ? I'd like to see how much more cold hardier and leaf hardier a mule is compared to a queen . 

My mule takes frond damage at 20F or so.

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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At the beginning of our palm collection I hesitated to buy a Mule palm because of its price tag of $350 that our local nursery is asking for.  I see the advantages of being it more cold hardy even it isn't by much to be very honest , 5 degrees or less maybe, depending on the Mule. 

I'm interested in how fast do the fronds grow back from a severe damage and how long it takes to get its full crown back .  

If you keep us updated with that I would appreciate it.

I have two Queens in different sizes.  The small one I've planted in May 2022 went through our artic winter just fine with little protection bucket and thin bedsheets only.  It starts pushing out a 2nd front but its taking time and don't grow as fast as our filibusta and robusta that already pushed out multiple fronds at the same time.  

Were you Queens protected? 

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23 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

At the beginning of our palm collection I hesitated to buy a Mule palm because of its price tag of $350 that our local nursery is asking for.  I see the advantages of being it more cold hardy even it isn't by much to be very honest , 5 degrees or less maybe, depending on the Mule. 

I'm interested in how fast do the fronds grow back from a severe damage and how long it takes to get its full crown back .  

If you keep us updated with that I would appreciate it.

I have two Queens in different sizes.  The small one I've planted in May 2022 went through our artic winter just fine with little protection bucket and thin bedsheets only.  It starts pushing out a 2nd front but its taking time and don't grow as fast as our filibusta and robusta that already pushed out multiple fronds at the same time.  

Were you Queens protected? 

My mule grows fast. 

Spring 2022/Oct 2022 Notice in spring 2022 the fronds are cut in half.  Notice in Late 2022 2 cut fronds appear in bottom left and right of photo the rest are new fronds.  there are 7-8 new ones that year.

2022 Spring

mulelabel.jpg

2022 Fall #1 fronds labeled in each

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Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I keep telling my wife if that Queen in front dies it will be replaced by a Mule.  So far it's alive but I'm curious how long it takes to see a decent crown growing back . It's an experiment.  The Mule looks just beautiful there's no doubt . Great job Allen. 

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1 minute ago, MarcusH said:

I keep telling my wife if that Queen in front dies it will be replaced by a Mule.  So far it's alive but I'm curious how long it takes to see a decent crown growing back . It's an experiment.  The Mule looks just beautiful there's no doubt . Great job Allen. 

Spear has pushed about a foot since I marked it 1 month ago in Feb

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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12 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Keep us up to date. Do you have a picture that you took recently? 

Look on my mule thread for a pic/video when it was opened from early Feb.  2023  Pretty rough but will look good fast.  Look there or my channel for updates

 

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 12/30/2022 at 3:01 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

A couple of fat CIDPs in Shavano Park.  They have looked better, but still kickin'.

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Same CIDPs...6+ months later...

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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This is a recovery from my palms that survived the artic blast.  The Pygmy I digged out in February is recovering well. I rather keep it in the pot to avoid yearly defoliation or even worse.  The Filibusta came out best with only a few burned leaves.  Mexican fan and Queen palm completely defoliated.  But here they are 6 months later . 

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Edited by MarcusH
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Hi Marcus, they all recovered nicely. I noticed the cycads in the background have new crowns too, were these unprotected?

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From what I see in various posts, the advantage of Butiagrus is that the less cold-hardy ones resemble coconuts. They're more attractive than Queens. At the stout end they resemble B.odorata but less cold-hardy. If a grower wants a Cocos-looking palm in z9, it's a good choice.

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On 1/5/2023 at 7:51 PM, DAVEinMB said:

Oh wow that's a beaut. Pretty surprising to see one look that good in Columbia. 

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Can’t believe a queen can survive in the midlands 

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14 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Hi Marcus, they all recovered nicely. I noticed the cycads in the background have new crowns too, were these unprotected?

Thanks Alex.  My wife lives here since 2004 and she got a pub from the neighbor across the street. She said she never protected it . The fronds aren't really cold hardy , they burn easily but as soon as the weather warms up they completely recover within a very few weeks.  Take a look at the last picture you'll see the mother plants in the background.  Unfortunately nobody takes care of them . 

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14 hours ago, South Carolina palms said:

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Can’t believe a queen can survive in the midlands 

If I remember to I’ll try to swing by to see if it’s still kicking, highly doubtful IMO. I’ve heard reports of ones around the lake but I haven’t personally put eyes on them. 
 

 

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21 hours ago, South Carolina palms said:

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Can’t believe a queen can survive in the midlands 

R.I.P 

 

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7 hours ago, RJ said:

R.I.P 

 

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That doesn’t surprise me I had a ultimate low of 19 here in Charleston during that cold snap and only had one queen survive. They had to be 3-5 degrees cooler then me

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1 hour ago, South Carolina palms said:

That doesn’t surprise me I had a ultimate low of 19 here in Charleston during that cold snap and only had one queen survive. They had to be 3-5 degrees cooler then me

Out of how many?  Mature ones?  

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49 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Out of how many?  Mature ones?  

Out of 5 and all where juveniles 

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12 hours ago, South Carolina palms said:

Out of 5 and all where juveniles 

I had one juvenile surviving lows of 16,21,24,28F with light protection.  I live in a 8b zone.  It's hard to keep a Queen alive in a 8b zone or lower.  

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