Russian Palms at Their Limits

[Alex High]

Hello Palm Lovers,

While it is well known to many that lots of palms grow in Sochi, Russia, it is not the only place in the country where palms are found. If you head up the coast from Sochi, there are many palms up to the Crimean peninsula and on it, most commonly windmills, and there are also some palms a bit inland, in the city of Krasnodar. And I also found some windmill palms in the city of Derbent near the border with Azerbaijan on the Caspian Sea. My first question is are there any further north locations on the Black and/or Caspian Seas where there are palms, and if so I would love to know. I know it's not Russia, but my other question is does anyone know if there are any palms in Kazakhstan, as the southwest corner of the country is the same latitude as Derbent. I will show pictures of the Russian palms that I know of and I would love to hear of any other Russian palms at their limits that you know of. I have done a good deal of searching on Google Maps/Google Earth, but more searching is certainly necessary.  Thanks!

First off, some naturalized Trachys at the Yew-Boxwood Grove near Sochi. I didn't want to put any pictures of Sochi palms since there are already plenty of great ones on Palmtalk:

More naturalized palms at the Yew-Boxwood Grove in Sochi:

A bit further inland and at a higher elevation than seaside Sochi, there are some palms in Krasnaya Polyana. Here is a C. humilis:

A young windmill:

A big windmill and some small ones:

Heading up the Black Sea coast, Tuapse has some palms. Here is a windmill:

And further up the coast in Gelendzhik are the northernmost Black Sea coast palms in Russia that I know of (not counting disputed Crimea). If you know of any other palms in north of there, please let me know. Here is a pretty big windmill:

Some more windmills:

And next up are the northernmost palms I know of in Russia. They are located at Krasnodar Stadium in the city of Krasnodar. I believe that they were all transplanted there when the stadium was constructed and have done pretty well since, although the windmills have taken a little while to adjust. Here are some of the many windmills that line the paths:

Aerial shot shortly after transplanting with garden under construction:

These surprised me!:

And last but certainly not least, the city of Derbent. These are actually some of the southernmost palms in Russia, but they are special because they are on the Caspian Sea, which means that the city has a cold semi-arid climate vs. Sochi's subtropical climate. Surprisingly there are actually quite a few windmills in the city center. Here is a small but healthy-looking windmill:

Another windmill:

More windmills:

Some tattered looking windmills:

And this traffic circle with lots of windmills:

If you know of any other palms on the north Caspian coastline, whether in Russia, Kazakhstan, or Turkmenistan, as I did not see much online about palms growing there but there must be some, so I think a Google Earth search is necessary. I would love to know of any additional palms anywhere north of the other places I mentioned as well. Thank you so much!

PalmsUSA

[Axel Amsterdam]

Filifera's in Lazarevskaya:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/9qLSMiGVvAa3iMq79

[Axel Amsterdam]

[Axel Amsterdam]

Lazarevskaya is north of Sotchi and colder than Sotchi. There are only trachies and these filifera’ grown there.

[Alex High]

7 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Filifera's in Lazarevskaya:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/9qLSMiGVvAa3iMq79

Thank you so much, I had no idea there were W. filifera that big north of Sochi! Awesome! Thanks again and take care!

PalmsUSA

Edited January 16, 2021 by PalmsUSA

[EastCanadaTropicals]

12 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

Hello Palm Lovers,

While it is well known to many that lots of palms grow in Sochi, Russia, it is not the only place in the country where palms are found. If you head up the coast from Sochi, there are many palms up to the Crimean peninsula and on it, most commonly windmills, and there are also some palms a bit inland, in the city of Krasnodar. And I also found some windmill palms in the city of Derbent near the border with Azerbaijan on the Caspian Sea. My first question is are there any further north locations on the Black and/or Caspian Seas where there are palms, and if so I would love to know. I know it's not Russia, but my other question is does anyone know if there are any palms in Kazakhstan, as the southwest corner of the country is the same latitude as Derbent. I will show pictures of the Russian palms that I know of and I would love to hear of any other Russian palms at their limits that you know of. I have done a good deal of searching on Google Maps/Google Earth, but more searching is certainly necessary.  Thanks!

First off, some naturalized Trachys at the Yew-Boxwood Grove near Sochi. I didn't want to put any pictures of Sochi palms since there are already plenty of great ones on Palmtalk:

More naturalized palms at the Yew-Boxwood Grove in Sochi:

A bit further inland and at a higher elevation than seaside Sochi, there are some palms in Krasnaya Polyana. Here is a C. humilis:

A young windmill:

A big windmill and some small ones:

Heading up the Black Sea coast, Tuapse has some palms. Here is a windmill:

And further up the coast in Gelendzhik are the northernmost Black Sea coast palms in Russia that I know of (not counting disputed Crimea). If you know of any other palms in north of there, please let me know. Here is a pretty big windmill:

Some more windmills:

And next up are the northernmost palms I know of in Russia. They are located at Krasnodar Stadium in the city of Krasnodar. I believe that they were all transplanted there when the stadium was constructed and have done pretty well since, although the windmills have taken a little while to adjust. Here are some of the many windmills that line the paths:

Aerial shot shortly after transplanting with garden under construction:

These surprised me!:

And last but certainly not least, the city of Derbent. These are actually some of the southernmost palms in Russia, but they are special because they are on the Caspian Sea, which means that the city has a cold semi-arid climate vs. Sochi's subtropical climate. Surprisingly there are actually quite a few windmills in the city center. Here is a small but healthy-looking windmill:

Another windmill:

More windmills:

Some tattered looking windmills:

And this traffic circle with lots of windmills:

If you know of any other palms on the north Caspian coastline, whether in Russia, Kazakhstan, or Turkmenistan, as I did not see much online about palms growing there but there must be some, so I think a Google Earth search is necessary. I would love to know of any additional palms anywhere north of the other places I mentioned as well. Thank you so much!

PalmsUSA

Is the pinnate palm you showed a butia x jubaea?

[Alex High]

1 hour ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is the pinnate palm you showed a butia x jubaea?

I am pretty sure that's what it is. Thanks and cheers!

PalmsUSA

[EastCanadaTropicals]

3 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

I am pretty sure that's what it is. Thanks and cheers!

PalmsUSA

Amazing palm.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

3 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

I am pretty sure that's what it is. Thanks and cheers!

PalmsUSA

I'm gonna try one in my garden.

[Axel Amsterdam]

There is a member from Tuapse on the European Palm Society forum. He grows filifera, filibusta and butia. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Axel Amsterdam

[Maxim]

сочи пальмы

сочи пальмы зимой

Edited January 21, 2021 by Maxim

[Maxim]

On 16.01.2021 at 09:01, PalmsUSA said:

 

 

Turkmenistan

Edited January 21, 2021 by Maxim

[Maxim]

- Только что, - сказал Максим:

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Maxim

[Palmfarmer]

28 minutes ago, Maxim said:

Turkmenistan

I assume this is completly south and by the coast. They might be able to grow some even more tropical palms there. Reason i Believe so is that the Northern shore of Iran by the Caspian see has big medjool/date palms. I might be wrong though and southern Turkmenistan has a much rougher climate than northern iran even though they are by the same "ocean" and not far from each other. 

 

Another question is there any Palms in the Romanian coast? its allmost the same latitude as Sochi, anyone know? 

[Alex High]

4 hours ago, Maxim said:

Turkmenistan

Wow amazing find, thanks for sharing! Those are some nice looking Trachys and they appear to be well established. Thanks again and take care!

4 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

I assume this is completly south and by the coast. They might be able to grow some even more tropical palms there. Reason i Believe so is that the Northern shore of Iran by the Caspian see has big medjool/date palms. I might be wrong though and southern Turkmenistan has a much rougher climate than northern iran even though they are by the same "ocean" and not far from each other. 

 

Another question is there any Palms in the Romanian coast? its allmost the same latitude as Sochi, anyone know? 

Those palms are actually located at the Independence Monument in Ashgabat, the capital of Turkmenistan, which is in the south-central part of the country, far from the Caspian Sea coast. And since it is not near the coast I am surprised to see even Trachys doing so well there. Here are some more pictures from near the Independence Monument:

Here is a Trachy at the Presidential Palace in Ashgabat:

I also found some palms in Turkmenbashi, along the Caspian Sea coast. I wonder if there are any palms north of there on the coast in Kazakhstan Here are some in Turkmenbashi:

As for Romania, I have not seen or heard about many palms there, but I know that there ares some even in Bucharest, so there must some if not a ton along the Black Sea coast, specially the southern part, which is pretty mild. Thanks and take care!

[Palmfarmer]

Wow what a beatiful city

[PalmTreeDude]

These are some great pictures! 

[Palmfarmer]

@PalmsUSA Would be awesome if you found some more in Kasakstan. We should look for palms on the western side of the Caspian sea also. 

[Palmfarmer]

Here is some Photos I found of the Palmy Caspian coast of Iran. These photos are from a city called Ramsar. 

Southern Turkmenistan by the coast should be able to support some more stuff than trachies I think comparing it to iran just a bit further south. 

 

[Alex High]

38 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

@PalmsUSA Would be awesome if you found some more in Kasakstan. We should look for palms on the western side of the Caspian sea also. 

Yes, definitely. Unfortunately there is very little online or on Google Maps/Google Earth about places in Kazakhstan where palms might grow, but I will keep searching for them! Thanks!

23 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Here is some Photos I found of the Palmy Caspian coast of Iran. These photos are from a city called Ramsar. 

Southern Turkmenistan by the coast should be able to support some more stuff than trachies I think comparing it to iran just a bit further south. 

 

Amazing photos, thank you so much for sharing! Beautiful palms, it is very lush on Iran's Caspian Sea coast, unlike much of the rest of the country, which is quite arid. Beautiful Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta! Thanks again for sharing and take care!

PalmsUSA

[Palm D]

Cool!  Thanks for sharing!

[Axel Amsterdam]

 Caravanserai in Sheki Azerbaijan

[Maxim]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:32 AM, Palmfarmer said:

@PalmsUSA  We should look for palms on the western side of the Caspian sea also. 

Baku (Azerbaijan)

[Maxim]

Lankaran (Azerbaijan)

[Maxim]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:32 AM, Palmfarmer said:

@PalmsUSA Would be awesome if you found some more in Kasakstan. 

this is not possible....Kazakhstan has very,very cold winters

[Maxim]

In Turkmenistan, in the area of the city of Kyzyl Atrek (Etrek ) in the 30-80 years of the 20th century, Phoenix dactylifera was grown on an industrial scale.....

[MSX]

Hello PalmsUSA and palmtalkers! Here are some varieties of palm trees successfully introduced & cultivated in my area (Namangan, Uzbekistan; BSK cold semi-arid, 7B/8A USDA, avg winter humidity 65%, 450 asl). We had the cold freeze winter this year, so some palms look damaged, likely forever - see the defoliated trunks of W. robustas (3rd and 4th pics), their owner never protected them), two mature and passively protected W. filiferas/filibustas (?) seem alive (1st & 2nd pics). 

Nothing can kill Trachies, seems like they thrive even when covered with the snow in the sub-freezing temps.

Unprotected mature and established Chamaeropses had experienced damage to the foliage but still alive, while the most of the young unprotected specimens look completely toasted or severely damaged. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by MSX

[PricklyPearSATC]

On 1/26/2021 at 6:26 AM, Maxim said:

Baku (Azerbaijan)

I'm  surprised, but then I googled Baku.  Baku sits below sea level!!  Average daily low in January low is higher than El Paso, TX.  No info on the average annual low, but they average 4 snow days in January.

[Palmfarmer]

This is kind of offtopic, but I have a bit hard time understanding why there is so few palms along the western part of the Black sea. Countries I am thinking about are Bulgaria and Romania. I tried finding some palms on these coasts but all i found was palms in containers, not even trachies in the ground! anyone have some palm photos for those regions or are perhaps from there? 

[Teegurr]

On 3/20/2021 at 11:18 AM, Palmfarmer said:

This is kind of offtopic, but I have a bit hard time understanding why there is so few palms along the western part of the Black sea. Countries I am thinking about are Bulgaria and Romania. I tried finding some palms on these coasts but all i found was palms in containers, not even trachies in the ground! anyone have some palm photos for those regions or are perhaps from there? 

Those places actually aren't that warm - for example, Burgas in Southern Bulgaria on the coast has an average winter low (not minimum) of -1c (29.5f). Besides Crimea, those countries can barely support Trachies and Chamaerops as they are in hardiness zones 7 and 8.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

Termez, Uzbekistan:

[MSX]

From the same region. Denov, Uzbekistan. This 25 years old Washy is probably the largest specimen in the country.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

2 hours ago, MSX said:

From the same region. Denov, Uzbekistan. This 25 years old Washy is probably the largest specimen in the country.

Cool.

[Teegurr]

11 hours ago, MSX said:

From the same region. Denov, Uzbekistan. This 25 years old Washy is probably the largest specimen in the country.

Beautiful washy.

Avg High and lows for Denov - am I correct in assuming it's a warm 8a or cold 8b there?

Also, Termez seems like a plausible place for Filibustas and Filiferas, Phoenix Dactyliferas and Canariensis, Brahea Armata, Nanorrhops and Chamaerops. What do you think?

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Teegurr

[MSX]

On 6/20/2021 at 7:44 AM, Teegurr said:

Beautiful washy.

Avg High and lows for Denov - am I correct in assuming it's a warm 8a or cold 8b there?

Also, Termez seems like a plausible place for Filibustas and Filiferas, Phoenix Dactyliferas and Canariensis, Brahea Armata, Nanorrhops and Chamaerops. What do you think?

 

Yeah Nathan, totally agree with you this Washy looks great!  I think this large Washy is cross-bred Filibusta, not pure Filifera? The trunk is quite slender, canory is rather open than dense, no? 

I bet its owner who started this palm from seed is very proud now of having grown this beauty up to this size! Denov is located in a very nice protected valley-oasis in the south of the country, and they are in 8b closer to 9 hardiness zone, sub-freezing winter temperatures is a rare thing down there, they grow all kinds of sun loving species, today I got a freshly ripen yellow muskmelon from there. Plus, their winters are dry, nice place for growing desert palm species. Actually I have never been to that part of the country but I'd love to drive around one day, see what exotic species they have. Last month I visited a fair, a garden fair where different nurseries from all parts of the country bring their stuff  for sale (flowers, plants, accessories, etc) and there was one seller from Denov area selling palms seeds from locally grown palms, and this is what is growing there

Edited June 22, 2021 by MSX

[Teegurr]

4 hours ago, MSX said:

Yeah Nathan, totally agree with you this Washy looks great!  I think this large Washy is cross-bred Filibusta, not pure Filifera? The trunk is quite slender, canory is rather open than dense, no? 

I bet its owner who started this palm from seed is very proud now of having grown this beauty up to this size! Denov is located in a very nice protected valley-oasis in the south of the country, and they are in 8b closer to 9 hardiness zone, sub-freezing winter temperatures is a rare thing down there, they grow all kinds of sun loving species, today I got a freshly ripen yellow muskmelon from there. Plus, their winters are dry, nice place for growing desert palm species. Actually I have never been to that part of the country but I'd love to drive around one day, see what exotic species they have. Last month I visited a fair, a garden fair where different nurseries from all parts of the country bring their stuff  for sale (flowers, plants, accessories, etc) and there was one seller from Denov area selling palms seeds from locally grown palms, and this is what is growing there

Cool to see palm interest there.

It's definitely a filibusta, the leaves look very robusta-like, with the trunk being a bit thick due to filifera genes.

So P. dactylifera would be a good candidate for Denov, right? 

[UK_Palms]

4 hours ago, MSX said:

Yeah Nathan, totally agree with you this Washy looks great!  I think this large Washy is cross-bred Filibusta, not pure Filifera? The trunk is quite slender, canory is rather open than dense, no? 

I bet its owner who started this palm from seed is very proud now of having grown this beauty up to this size! Denov is located in a very nice protected valley-oasis in the south of the country, and they are in 8b closer to 9 hardiness zone, sub-freezing winter temperatures is a rare thing down there, they grow all kinds of sun loving species, today I got a freshly ripen yellow muskmelon from there. Plus, their winters are dry, nice place for growing desert palm species. Actually I have never been to that part of the country but I'd love to drive around one day, see what exotic species they have. Last month I visited a fair, a garden fair where different nurseries from all parts of the country bring their stuff  for sale (flowers, plants, accessories, etc) and there was one seller from Denov area selling palms seeds from locally grown palms, and this is what is growing there

Interesting. I see the seed seller in Denov is using an old photo of the Southsea CIDP’s in southern England. The grass in the centre verge has since been concreted over. I visited that spot in April and took some photos. Collected some seeds off several of the CIDP’s as well, which have since sprouted…

[Maxim]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:18 PM, Palmfarmer said:

This is kind of offtopic, but I have a bit hard time understanding why there is so few palms along the western part of the Black sea. 

there are no Caucasus Mountains there...

[Maxim]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:18 PM, Palmfarmer said:

 Bulgaria

http://www.polarpalm.net/bg/winterpalms.html

[MSX]

22 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Interesting. I see the seed seller in Denov is using an old photo of the Southsea CIDP’s in southern England. The grass in the centre verge has since been concreted over. I visited that spot in April and took some photos. Collected some seeds off several of the CIDP’s as well, which have since sprouted…

No wonder the seller decided to use the photo of this absolutely fantastic looking specimen! If I see him next year and if he comes back with the same demo photo I will show him your post with the photo of the original CIDP! I didn't get any CIDP seeds from him, as I understand limits for my 8A zone, I have one CIDP potted and it's enough for me for now, it grows faster in an oversized pot faster than my washies in the ground, got some butia and chamaerops seeds instead. Btw, great gemination success, not less than 100%!

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by MSX