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Unusual Places you Believe palm trees could grow


Palmfarmer

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as title describes. I start with my list of what places i believe could work and you guys continue listing of a location/s and give your opinion.

Here are mine:

Faroe Islands, Falkland Islands and Sable Island, Canada. 

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The southern islands of Alaska. Prince of Wales island, etc near Ketchikan and Sitka. 

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1 hour ago, Chester B said:

The southern islands of Alaska. Prince of Wales island, etc near Ketchikan and Sitka. 

Ketchikan may have a few windmills: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/13080-palms-in-alaska/

Windmills were tried in Sitka but they unfortunately perished:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/14689-death-of-the-northern-most-alaskan-palm/
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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Closer to home, from Cape Cod down to south, coastal Connecticut, Long Island, Metro NYC, down the Jersey Shore to Cape May, NJ, Delaware, and coastal points south, gradually expanding westward as one proceeds south (basically, minimum zone 6B/7A climates).

Edited by oasis371
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Greensboro, NC

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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My hometown just northeast of Nashville, TN. A nursery had some sagos, pygmy dates, and some others that i have never seen before! I think the sagos will work but everything else is no bueno besides needle palms and sabal palmetto. Speaking of that i have seen Sabal palmetto near Nashville before outside of a makeshift mall off of HWY 386 called "The Streets of Indian Lake"

*Edit: Here is a drone pic at an event, pic from google maps. Looks like Sabal and Trachycarpus.

Palms of TN.PNG

Edited by JLM
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Palms - 3 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 2 BxS, 1 C. nucifera, 1 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa

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I know this place already has a few palms scattered around so it’s not the most unusual place, but I feel like the Eastern Shore of Virginia, particularly Northampton County, could grow so many more solid 8a species. I’m not sure what the historical weather is like there but from what I can see you would think it would be full of hardy palms, while it seems like almost no one plants them. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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On 5/31/2020 at 2:51 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Greensboro, NC

There are tons of windmill palms and sabal minors growing here around Greensboro already. I've even got a washingtonia robusta in my yard, but I'll have to protect it during winter. My sabal minor "Lousiana," windmills, and sago require no protection.  There are a few Sabal Palmetto that are surviving at an apartment complex downtown as well. There is definitely potential here, the only thing stopping us is the popular local belief that palms belong at the beach only.

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16 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I know this place already has a few palms scattered around so it’s not the most unusual place, but I feel like the Eastern Shore of Virginia, particularly Northampton County, could grow so many more solid 8a species. I’m not sure what the historical weather is like there but from what I can see you would think it would be full of hardy palms, while it seems like almost no one plants them. 

True, windmills and sabal minor are the most common though still rare in that area. Ive seen a couple ragged palmetto transplants and a couple healthier ones of smaller size and butia but again very very rare in that area.  You start seeing a couple queens too in that area.  Re Planted every summer of course. They do that as far south as a restaurant in Duck NC 

Edited by Mr.SamuraiSword
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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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There are some old established needle palms and sabal minor in Cincinnati and along the Ohio river. I know if some in Louisville, Kentucky that actually produce volunteers as well!

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A customer of ours in st Louis has some older needles that have produced seed for a number of years. Nice plants.  My sister in law has a needle palms growing completely unprotected and neglected in Evansville, IN. 

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  • 1 month later...

The Azores have an extremely high hardiness zone for their latitude, Ponta Delgada has a record low of 39F at 37 degrees north, almost as far up as Washington D.C! Coconuts could hypothetically take on!

Unfortunately it's perhaps a bit too cool in summer.

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Here locally palms are considered marginal and I agree mostly...although siting errors may be to blame...for certain species. I always adopted the thinking that if you plant in a good microclimate you will have no problems with hardiness etc.. of hardier species. As I've continued with my hobby I've learned how important other factors are as well. Ive mentioned it before but we generally all love those Pacific NW grown trachies... that thrive with the higher rainfalls in Washington and Oregon.. and further looking at the better looking trees locally here in the desert.. they thrive when planted with the supplemental run off from buildings. So that would be an unusual place.. at least in my mind.. for my local planting and future planting plans. 

Now to take it further.. in my cold winter climate.... I dont think a Washingtonia would survive in a location facing North.. or even facing Northeast.. its just too cold..(never attempted) and during the lower sun angle in the depth of winter.. there just isn't enough sun to keep a palm from freezing to death.. but Trachies seem to do fine in these exposures. I found a decent looking trachy.. and a rare needle palm in this yard that faces North... the needle most definitely gets sun all year.. but doesn't get rainfall run off from the house.  Looks crappy.. really.. even if it gets plenty of alkaline water from the grass. The trachy.. looks great.. and also is planted in the coldest location of the yard....makes you wonder whats possible with proper siting and how important it is.

Anyhow..as far as a different location.. I suppose it would be interesting to see palms in Santa Fe.. at an elevation of over 7200' !!

20200706_163453.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/4/2020 at 2:30 PM, donofriojim1 said:

There are some old established needle palms and sabal minor in Cincinnati and along the Ohio river. I know if some in Louisville, Kentucky that actually produce volunteers as well!

Here's my "Louisiana" planted on a south facing wall at my house between Louisville and Lexington Ky. No urban heat island and no protection after 3 years.sabal-minorlou.thumb.JPG.379b7315608e0135bd16557734475a58.JPGter 3 years.

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Kansas City, Missouri z6.  Sabal minor ‘Mc curtain’ growing for 23 years and producing seed.  

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  • 4 months later...
On 5/31/2020 at 4:11 AM, Palmfarmer said:

as title describes. I start with my list of what places i believe could work and you guys continue listing of a location/s and give your opinion.

Here are mine:

Faroe Islands, Falkland Islands and Sable Island, Canada. 

Sable island is very mild, although you have to grow the palms in a spot sheltered from wind.

Nothing to say here. 

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4 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Sable island is very mild, although you have to grow the palms in a spot sheltered from wind.

Sable Island really isn't as mild as people think. Average lows are below freezing from December to March.

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15 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Sable Island really isn't as mild as people think. Average lows are below freezing from December to March.

I looked on weatherspark and the weather is only slightly colder than Raleigh.

Nothing to say here. 

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is a Birmingham or trachy hardier

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Just now, climate change virginia said:

 

1 minute ago, climate change virginia said:

is a Birmingham or trachy hardier

 

 I think they're equal once they get really old, otherwise, you're better off with Trachy since they're growth rate is much faster.

Nothing to say here. 

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3 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

is a Birmingham or trachy hardier

I would say Birmingham. 

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I’d like to see more tried in the colder desert towns: Moab UT, Alamo NV, Page AZ ETC. 

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4 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I looked on weatherspark and the weather is only slightly colder than Raleigh.

It's quite a different climate. Sable Island doesn't get the heat Raleigh does in the summer, with summers being like UK summers, and winters being more like NYC. I think a needle could probably survive.

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On 7/17/2020 at 6:42 PM, SailorBold said:

Here locally palms are considered marginal and I agree mostly...although siting errors may be to blame...for certain species. I always adopted the thinking that if you plant in a good microclimate you will have no problems with hardiness etc.. of hardier species. As I've continued with my hobby I've learned how important other factors are as well. Ive mentioned it before but we generally all love those Pacific NW grown trachies... that thrive with the higher rainfalls in Washington and Oregon.. and further looking at the better looking trees locally here in the desert.. they thrive when planted with the supplemental run off from buildings. So that would be an unusual place.. at least in my mind.. for my local planting and future planting plans. 

Now to take it further.. in my cold winter climate.... I dont think a Washingtonia would survive in a location facing North.. or even facing Northeast.. its just too cold..(never attempted) and during the lower sun angle in the depth of winter.. there just isn't enough sun to keep a palm from freezing to death.. but Trachies seem to do fine in these exposures. I found a decent looking trachy.. and a rare needle palm in this yard that faces North... the needle most definitely gets sun all year.. but doesn't get rainfall run off from the house.  Looks crappy.. really.. even if it gets plenty of alkaline water from the grass. The trachy.. looks great.. and also is planted in the coldest location of the yard....makes you wonder whats possible with proper siting and how important it is.

Anyhow..as far as a different location.. I suppose it would be interesting to see palms in Santa Fe.. at an elevation of over 7200' !!

20200706_163453.jpg

Just to add further thought to this.. the pH and quality of the water is very important when cultivating palms.. and there prolly is more cold damage to palms that do not grow in optimal conditions..and perhaps leaf damages that aren't caused from cold as well.. in these environments. 

When was the last time anyone was overly concerned about your waters pH??  

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3 hours ago, RyManUtah said:

I’d like to see more tried in the colder desert towns: Moab UT, Alamo NV, Page AZ ETC. 

Hey Ryan.. did you ever pH your water yet? I'm wondering to know just from a water source stand point.. Like I said mine is about 8.0-8.2.. and is from the aquifer.  Oh wanted to ask if you see Gardenias planted locally..

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some can grow in southern iceland

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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18 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Hey Ryan.. did you ever pH your water yet? I'm wondering to know just from a water source stand point.. Like I said mine is about 8.0-8.2.. and is from the aquifer.  Oh wanted to ask if you see Gardenias planted locally..

Hey. I did. It was in the 8.1 range, however I used the cheapest tester available. Our water is mostly watershed stored in reservoirs (river water), but there are various wells, pumps etc. 

I have never seen a Gardenias, even for sale,  but climate wise I assume they would be fine. I may have seen some and not known an ID, however. 

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On 12/22/2020 at 9:46 PM, Teegurr said:

It's quite a different climate. Sable Island doesn't get the heat Raleigh does in the summer, with summers being like UK summers, and winters being more like NYC. I think a needle could probably survive.

I know, the summers are different than Raleigh.

Edited by EastCanadaTropicals

Nothing to say here. 

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47 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I know, the summers are different than Raleigh.

Im sorry but where in the heck do you get your stats because they are garbo if you think sable island is the same as here in winter. Coldest month in Sable Island average 35.2/24.4... in Raleigh the coldest month averages 51/31.... the warmest month on Sable island averages 69.3/59.2... warmest month in Raleigh averages 90.2/69.9... again where are the similarities?

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2 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Im sorry but where in the heck do you get your stats because they are garbo if you think sable island is the same as here in winter. Coldest month in Sable Island average 35.2/24.4... in Raleigh the coldest month averages 51/31.... the warmest month on Sable island averages 69.3/59.2... warmest month in Raleigh averages 90.2/69.9... again where are the similarities?

Its Weatherspark, I should've checked the stats more, sorry.

Edited by EastCanadaTropicals
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Nothing to say here. 

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On 12/22/2020 at 9:45 PM, SailorBold said:

Just to add further thought to this.. the pH and quality of the water is very important when cultivating palms.. and there prolly is more cold damage to palms that do not grow in optimal conditions..and perhaps leaf damages that aren't caused from cold as well.. in these environments. 

When was the last time anyone was overly concerned about your waters pH??  

I got to thinking about that on my last vacation to Santa Fe area.  I spent some time in White Rock and Los Alamos.  Was real surprised that they used treated sewage to water all of the parks and ball fields in White Rock.  Smelled like sewage mixed with laundry soap.  We hiked the trails there going down to the Rio Grande and were very surprised at the huge sewage waterfall draining right into the river.  It looked really cool if you didn't know those waterfalls were sewage.  Something I take for granted in the PNW with all of our rain.  We don't irrigate with sewage up here, and we don't have poop waterfalls either, lol.

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On 12/29/2020 at 7:01 PM, Fallen Munk said:

I got to thinking about that on my last vacation to Santa Fe area.  I spent some time in White Rock and Los Alamos.  Was real surprised that they used treated sewage to water all of the parks and ball fields in White Rock.  Smelled like sewage mixed with laundry soap.  We hiked the trails there going down to the Rio Grande and were very surprised at the huge sewage waterfall draining right into the river.  It looked really cool if you didn't know those waterfalls were sewage.  Something I take for granted in the PNW with all of our rain.  We don't irrigate with sewage up here, and we don't have poop waterfalls either, lol.

Lol... ignorance is bliss... what does your town do with wastewater?  Where i live they treat it.. and I think they reinject it into the aquifer.. I dont know the entire process.. but I'd suspect its safe.  If you were in Los Alamos I'd be more worried that you might leave the place glowing.. lol

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  • 3 weeks later...

Temperature wise, Ketchikan Alaska should be perfectly fine for growing Trachycarpus palms.  They are cool to mild all year with average highs at about 40 in winter to 65 in summer.  They do get an excessive amount of rain though, I don't know if that would be harmful.

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  • 1 year later...

Ketchikan might be a little too wet considering it does freeze a lot more than north western europe and have ice and snow. 

Quote

Faroe Islands, Falkland Islands and Sable Island, Canada

Faroe islands are a bit too cold and windy.

Falkland islands are cold for only 51 latitude compared to north Atlantic current locations. Annual average temp is below 7c 45 f. At least they are much drier than southern Alaska. 

If sable island could grow one then Nantucket should be teeming with them.

Edited by Aceraceae
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On 7/17/2020 at 8:34 AM, CodyORB said:

The Azores have an extremely high hardiness zone for their latitude, Ponta Delgada has a record low of 39F at 37 degrees north, almost as far up as Washington D.C! Coconuts could hypothetically take on!

Unfortunately it's perhaps a bit too cool in summer.

Doesn't Madeira at Bermuda latitude have coconuts?

The Azores in winter is no worse in temperature and cold rain than Alicante, southern Spain, or most Mediterranean locations (Greece isles, Haifa Israel) that can nearly grow a coconut. But the oceanic effect gives low record highs and cool Summers. 

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