Palms in Alaska

[akpalms]

I have grown T. Fortunei with great success in Ketchikan, AK which is zone 7. I now live in Anchorage, AK and am still growing palms, but indoors. I currently have about 150 palms(a lot are seedlings) I also grow banana plants. I want to try growing something outside here, I realize the winters are far too harsh for any palm to take without protection. I am interested in trying a few palms, Rhapidophyllum hystrix, T. Fortunei, T. Takil, and Sabal Minor. I just wanted to know if anyone has tried growing palms in zone 4 outside? I am thinking about constructing a small shed-like building to surround the palm to keep the snow and frost off. Any ideas on if this would work or anyways at all to make something work without bringing them inside for the winter? Thanks!

[bgl]

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the Forum! I can't answer any of your questions, but I know there are others who hopefully will be able to. I'm fairly certain you're our first member in Alaska. At least the first who one who posted!

Aloha!

Bo-Göran

[waykoolplantz]

Palm trees in Alaska....how cool

[kahili]

I would say "go for it" , although I have no idea if you will have success. I would think that in addition to building a small structure for them, you could use some kind of lighting to put around the crown to provide additional warmth when the temps drop lower than....what, I am not sure. I don't think there are many of us that are that familiar with the winters where you live.

I can tell you that 18 yrs ago or so I stuck a very small (gallon size) T. fortunei and S. minor out in the ground and never protected either one. While they were small, they went through winters with lows at least 8 degrees and I think lower than that, 20" of snow. 14" of snow, lots of ice storms that stayed frozen for at least 4 days if not longer etc. They are both looking great. I did have two T. fortuneis next to each other and one died and the other has a trunk on it of about 5' (if I had fertilized it over the years, it would be taller). However, the winters here have to be less harsh and shorter than what you are facing.

I think the palms you have chosen are all good choices. Try to get the most size you can when you plant, and try to plant the closest to spring that you can so as to give them the most time possible to get somewhat established before winter. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

I also have a bunch of tropical palms that I overwinter inside and in a grhouse. How do you overwinter yours, and how do they do? Any favorites, or ones that do esp well (or not) ?

[tjwalters]

My first thought is that R. hystrix and S. minor will require more summertime heat than Anchorage can supply, though I have NO idea how hot it gets in Anchorage in the summer. Maybe Trachycarpus nanus would be a good choice - it would be easier to protect in the winter, since it is non-trunking or only develops a short trunk. Not sure if its cold-hardiness rivals that of T. fortunei or T. takil.

[BS Man about Palms]

Wow. Go for it!

[PalmatierMeg]

Welcome to Palmtalk. I applaud anyone who takes on a challenge. You might be interested in a few cold-hardy palm websites:

European Palm Society

hardiestpalms.com

www.scanpalm.no, a site, in English, about growing palms in Scandivania. I've even seen photos of palms growing in Bulgaria

You may find info on what palms to try. Unfortunately, palms that tolerate cold die miserable deaths in SW FL.

[Kris]

Dear Dan Potts

Welcome to our discussion board...& palm family !

i live in hot wet tropics,so cannot suggest palms for your zone...

lots of love,

Kris

[akpalms]

Thanks everyone for the info and support! Hopefully I will be able to get something to work...if anyone has any further ideas or other cold hardy palms they think may have a fighting chance, please let me know. Thanks again!

[iamjv]

Any pictures of your T. Fortunei growing in Ketchikan, AK ??? Would be interesting to see them... We are doing our first 'cold-climate' cruise this year, cruising Alaska. I was depressed thinking I wasn't going to see palms on vacation but have since been told there are palms in Juneau. Can you confirm that? Thanks Jv

[rozpalm]

Welcome! Palms in Alaska...now that is cool (no pun intended)! I would love to see some of the pictures of your greenhouse and the palms you are growing.

[Turtile]

Trachycarpus would the easiest type of palm to grow in your climate. Sabal and Rhapidophyllum take longer to recover and most likely need warmer temperatures for any moderate growth.

Trachycarpus "nanital" seems to be a little hardier than regular fortunei. Trachycarpus wagnerianus is another good one to try.

For bananas, Musa basjoo may be able to survive the winter with heavy mulching. I'm not sure if there is enough heat/growing season for it to grow back into a nice plant (or get any significant growth) but you can always store them during the winter.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Turtile

[DoomsDave]

akpalms!

Welcome to our merry big band!

And getting bigger, and we scream with delight over those who push envelopes . .. .

Alaska?

Palms?

Not!

But I know better, and you obviously do, too.

Post some pics.

Of your palms AND Alaska, the great state of being.

Cruise ships, prospectors, Exxon Valdez and all.

Give it to us.

dave

[NBTX11]

Welcome,

Check out the Hardy Palm and Subtropical board. That board seems to be more geared towards palm growers in colder climates. There's posters on there from the midwest - Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, the Northeast etc. I think there is some from Ontatio, Canada. Probably places colder than the AK panhandle.

http://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/

[akpalms]

I will have to look and see if I can find a picture of the palms I grew in Ketchikan. I moved away from there awhile ago. Funny story about that, rented our house out there and the guy who was renting it for a year go to enjoy the palms I had, there were a total of 6 there. We decided to just sell the house and were a long ways away so had no idea of what was going on and he dug up all the palms and took them to his new residence. A little messed up but hey, I guess he was caring for them while he was there and as long as they were still growing its all good. I am not sure about palms in Juneau, I know there are some in Sitka though. I will try and upload some pictures of what I have so you all can see. Thanks again to everyone for all the info!!!

[Roaringwater]

There are some people growing trachies in Finland, zone 4! They use heated wooden sheds, insulated with polystyrene foam roof insulation for winter protection. If you post a question on the EPS forum, you might get a reply from a member in Finland.

[serj]

In the GardenWeb forun, one man (Artictropical) sucessfuly growing trachies in zone 4. And one trachies is blooming!!!

[Jeff Searle]

Welcome to our forum. I for one would love to see some pics. of your surrounding areas, maybe of some of your palms you want to plant out. I really know very little of this great and beautiful state of ours. Thanks.

Jeff

[oppalm]

welcome akpalm. I grow palms in Kansas so I think I might know a little about growing palms in non tropical (cold) climates. I think the thing to do is to build some kind of insulating structure over your palms in winter and heat the structure somehow inside. If you can keep the inside temps above 10F degrees , you should have success with the palms you have mentioned. Plan on keeping the structure up well into spring time to keep the cold rain and cold temps off the palm trees as a cold wet spring can and will do damage. Rot is a bad thing. I am not sure how long your growing season is and thats why it may be wise to keep your plams covered as long as possible to generate some solar heat in your palm structure to re- energize your palms in spring and into summer. Check out the cold hardy palm web site listed in this thread and you'll learn even more.

[DoomsDave]

Palms can be raised in coastal areas of Norway, Scotland and Ireland, which are as far north as Alaska.

In AK, you have the Japan current to keep you warm . . .

[serj]

Palms can be raised in coastal areas of Norway, Scotland and Ireland, which are as far north as Alaska.

In AK, you have the Japan current to keep you warm . . .

Some areas of Norway, Scotland and Ireland is zone 7 or 8 because of GulfStream is soften climate this country. So in this country growing such palms as Trachycarpus, butia...

[cfkingfish]

Welcome to the board, Im glad the palm diseases spreads around the globe. Funny you mention you are from AK, and trying to or have grown in zones 4-7. AK-47....coincidence?

[NBTX11]

I checked out the weather records for Ketchikan, and it actually looks favorable for Trachycarpus. WAAAY milder than the interior Continental US during winter, with much warmer winter lows. The Hi's aren't that high, but the lows aren't that cold at all. The average Jan Low is 29F which is almost the same as Atlanta GA, and the record low is -1F, which is warmer than most of the SE US cities outside of FL and immediate coast. They get no real heat though. But hey, they are growing them in Vancouver, what's a couple hundred miles north, it's basically the same climate.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatolo...onthly/USAK0125

[JakeK]

Welcome to the board. I live in a cold zone too, zone 6 and can only grow Rhapidophyllum hystrix and Sabal minor with no protection. Most springs they both look pretty bad but the bounce back with the heat during the Summer. For me the two most important factors to growing palms outdoors with no protection besides location, is protection from the wind and too much moisture. In a zone 4, even with the shed you'd need to build around the palms, you'll need to make sure the ground doesn't freeze around the roots because that will kill them too.

On a few other boards I have frequented in the past there are people in zones 4, 5 and 6 attempting to grow needles, sabals, trachys and even washys with elaborate protection methods. There's a guy out in Missouri who has washys pushing 25' tall and he builds a scaffolding skeleton around them each fall. I think he has to heat them too.

[steve 9atx]

AK

Don't let anyone tell you there isn't enough warmth in Ketchikan for palms

(in the summer, that is)! I spent a few weeks up there last August and I was

half naked half the time with seawater water splashed all over me while fishing.

And, I am less hardy than many palms. My only advice would be that you are

careful with your exposure to be sure that they don't spend much, if any, time

in the shade during your loooong summer days, and your protect them

appropriately in the fall/winter.

Steve

[akpalms]

Wow from all this info it is beginning to sound somewhat promising that there may be a chance for success with this. I am going to look into palms in Finland and try to get an idea of what they are doing so i can gain more knowledge. Its always fun to push the envelope and try things others haven't how crazy would that be to be driving in Anchorage and seeing palm trees, maybe one day...

[PalmGuyWC]

Dan,

I'm a retired airline pilot and I used to fly to Anchorage often, but usually in the summer when the sun hardly set. Anchorage was beautiful in the summer with all the wild flowers blooming and the hanging baskets of flowers along some of the streets. Once I screwd up and had a trip in December. It was VERY cold and the first time I had seen salt water frozen solid and there was broken ice all over the bay. It looked rather scary. We went on to Fairbanks and it was 46 below zero there, and even the natives were complaining about the cold. I had heard with temps. like that you could throw a cup of coffee in the air and it would vaporize before it hit the ground. It tried it, and sure enough there was a big puff of steam and nothing touched the ground. In 15 seconds my trousers had frozen stiff. I made a hasty retreat back into the airplane. Later that month I flew back to Anchorage and the temp. was above freezing (day time) and the streets were slushey and a mess.

I think the only palms that might possibly survive and grow there would be Tracheycarpus, probably T. fortunei and T. wagnerianus, and that would be with winter protection. Rhapidophyllum and S. minor require summer heat to grow.

Dick

[NorCalWill]

You might try Target, they sometimes carry Rhapis plasticus and Chamaedorea syntheticus.

Either of these will do well in your area, but you might need to protect them from sunlight or the color will fade.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Will

[fiji jim]

WOW!

Zone 4.

What a challenge.

Welcome.

[Guest Keith in Zone 9]

I too think the Trachycarpus are the best bet. Those southern species (Sabals, Rhapidiophyllum) really want hot summers. I suppose you could leave a transparent enclosure around them creating their own greenhouse environment. As someone else mentioned...keep the ground from freezing or they'll fail. I don't think they'll take weeks of temps in the teens either. They need to come above freezing in the day. Your long nights and persistent cold might be as bit a challenge as the absolute minimums.