Hello, 

I would like to know if B. Alfredii needs deep pots ? Are roots deep like Bismarkia ? 
I was going to use seed beds for the germination but they are not deep app 8 cm deep is this enough ?

Also what soil mix they like ?

Thank You

 

Edited September 1, 20187 yr by dwimss

Free draining mix. Around 15cm deep (6 inches).

yes, they can grow deep roots.  They will need good the soil drainage if those roots are to grow deep.  Deeper roots will give the roots more strength in winds and allow it to hold a bigger crown.  Also you get better drought resistance with deeper roots.  Mine is in mostly sand and some clay but with years of mulching probably 3" of organic rich soil on top.

11 hours ago, dwimss said:

Hello, 

I would like to know if B. Alfredii needs deep pots ? Are roots deep like Bismarkia ? 
I was going to use seed beds for the germination but they are not deep app 8 cm deep is this enough ?

Also what soil mix they like ?

Thank You

 

DWIMSS: I planted mine (source: Rare Palm Seeds) in July, in 8 inch (~20.3 cm) deep pots, using a blend of commercial potting mixes. As you can see from this picture I took today, the tap root is already coming out the bottom of the tree pot. 

@dwimiss, they're pretty "rooty" i.e., lots of roots, but they're not quite as deep rooted as something like a Dypsis plumosa. @hillizard has the right idea.

This photo of B alfredii seedlings taken by @palmfriend in 2016 shows that you need not deep containers for germinating them, because B alfredii has adjacent germination. The radicle will grow where it finds space, straight downwards or not doesn’t matter.

3 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

This photo of B alfredii seedlings taken by @palmfriend in 2016 shows that you need not deep containers for germinating them, because B alfredii has adjacent germination. The radicle will grow where it finds space, straight downwards or not doesn’t matter.

That's certainly true, but, trust me, they appreciate plenty of space when they do start to really grow, oh yes.

5 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

This photo of B alfredii seedlings taken by @palmfriend in 2016 shows that you need not deep containers for germinating them, because B alfredii has adjacent germination. The radicle will grow where it finds space, straight downwards or not doesn’t matter.

Yes, you are totally right about the adjacent germination thing and they aren't a Corypha needing 1m deep pots from the start but they do put some deep roots down to begin with. In my experience a 15cm 6 inch pot is a minimum for this species. A bit more is even better. While they are still connected to mothers milk they put a lot of energy into deep root production. Once that's been spent they need to be encouraged to put out more anchorage style roots as they can flop around for a few years in the wind in my experience. Keeping good compost and organics up against the trunk for its first few years probably helps that a bit. Don't plant this one too high. If you can see the odd root when it's planted definitely pile up the organics.

7 hours ago, Hillizard said:

DWIMSS: I planted mine (source: Rare Palm Seeds) in July, in 8 inch (~20.3 cm) deep pots, using a blend of commercial potting mixes. As you can see from this picture I took today, the tap root is already coming out the bottom of the tree pot. 

Was that a seed when it arrived or a seedling. If it was a seed that arrived in July I'm gobsmacked at its speed of growth.

Hello there,

since my young Beccarios are mentioned, here they are now - at least a few of them after two and a half years:

I grow/grew them in cut off 2-liter pet bottles from the beginning - worked absolutely fine - currently I am re potting some of them, usually those with the

strongest roots.

Here,...

...a planted out one - I did it more than a year ago - it is not really rocketing but it has definitively the next stage with its divided leaves. 

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

2 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Was that a seed when it arrived or a seedling. If it was a seed that arrived in July I'm gobsmacked at its speed of growth.

Tyrone: I got 10 seeds from RPS; 1 of them was already germinating in the bag on receipt [http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/21655-rare-palm-seeds-rps/&page=4#comment-854512 ]. I put them on damp sphagnum and within 2 weeks 4 more had germinated. That's when I transferred all five to tree pots [ http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/monthly_2018_07/B_alfredii.png.bb92f5bd9fc3ab90672a106f7446f704.png ]. For now I keep them in my sun room where it ranges from 60 degF to 95+ degF daily.  They get bright morning sun only.  None of the other five seeds have sprouted as of today.

32 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

Tyrone: I got 10 seeds from RPS; 1 of them was already germinating in the bag on receipt [http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/21655-rare-palm-seeds-rps/&page=4#comment-854512 ]. I put them on damp sphagnum and within 2 weeks 4 more had germinated. That's when I transferred all five to tree pots [ http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/monthly_2018_07/B_alfredii.png.bb92f5bd9fc3ab90672a106f7446f704.png ]. For now I keep them in my sun room where it ranges from 60 degF to 95+ degF daily.  They get bright morning sun only.  None of the other five seeds have sprouted as of today.

Nice!!!

Keep us updated on their growth. 

 

 

I too was surprised how fast thier roots fill pots. Has anyone tried transplanting larger beccarios? Would they do ok field grown?

they work well in the traditional 4in pots, no need to get long pots unless you’re going to plant them in the ground early

I just upsized 10 b. Alfredii from 3 gal. Pots to 15gsl.  Their roots were 10cm long beneath(outside) their original pots. 

From personal experience their taproot is longer than that of a cocos nucifera "tall" var.  In other words, B.alfredii like deep soil. Jmho

Edited September 2, 20187 yr by GottmitAlex

they are a tough, tough palm and can handle just about anything a subtropical gardener can throw (or not throw) at it, babying it will only increase the growth! it’s all about timing. if you can control the moisture well in a big pot then it will fill it up with roots quickly

On 01/09/2018 à, Pal Meir said:

This photo of B alfredii seedlings taken by @palmfriend in 2016 shows that you need not deep containers for germinating them, because B alfredii has adjacent germination. The radicle will grow where it finds space, straight downwards or not doesn’t matter.

 

 

Thanks, I will keep them in the seed bed until they germinate then I will transplant in deep individual containers, no need for deep seed bed for the germination!

 

In pots these palms get rootbound fast.  Once in the ground, they get happy and grow big roots.  I planted one and moved it(it was too close to a fence) after 5 months.  The roots grew to 3' deep from a 3 gallon 10" deep pot.  I dug down deep to try to preserve the roots when I moved it.   The plant above ground pushed 1-2 new leaves in 5 months, didn't move much.  Like bismarckias and copernicias, this palm wants to be in the ground.

Any advice on how to make them sprout? Should I put the bags under strong light? I planted the seeds from RPS 3 weeks ago. None has sprouted yet. Some are in ziplock bags, some in regular potting bags and some in a covered propagator. All sit on heat mats (27-30C) under grow lights. Medium is 60% perlite and 40% soil. 

I tried to germinate beccariophoenix alfredii before and no seed sprouted but back then I didn't use a heat mat. And they were from a different supplier. 

Edited March 22, 20224 yr by ego

9 hours ago, ego said:

Any advice on how to make them sprout? Should I put the bags under strong light? I planted the seeds from RPS 3 weeks ago. None has sprouted yet. Some are in ziplock bags, some in regular potting bags and some in a covered propagator. All sit on heat mats (27-30C) under grow lights. Medium is 60% perlite and 40% soil. 

I tried to germinate beccariophoenix alfredii before and no seed sprouted but back then I didn't use a heat mat. And they were from a different supplier. 

Ha, ha, ha three weeks can not be considered a long time, when it comes to the germination of palm seeds. Were offered seeds tagged as new?

26 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Ha, ha, ha three weeks can not be considered a long time, when it comes to the germination of palm seeds. Were offered seeds tagged as new?

Well RPS says all their seeds are fresh enough. Who knows. I'm worried cos in July I tried Beccario seeds again and none sprouted back then. Those were not from RPS though 

10 hours ago, ego said:

Well RPS says all their seeds are fresh enough. Who knows. I'm worried cos in July I tried Beccario seeds again and none sprouted back then. Those were not from RPS though 

Do you enclose germination pot in a plastic bag?

16 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Do you enclose germination pot in a plastic bag?

This is what I've done. Half of them are in covered plastic bags and the other half inside this propagator:

 

 

Where is placed the thermostat sensor?

18 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Where is placed the thermostat sensor?

I am not using a thermostat anymore. I used for like a month and I realized it was useless as it was always OFF (not stopping the heat mat) and yet the temperature in the propagator never went above 30C.

Edited March 23, 20224 yr by ego

23 minutes ago, ego said:

I am not using a thermostat anymore. I used for like a month and I realized it was useless as it was always OFF (not stopping the heat mat) and yet the temperature in the propagator never went above 30C.

It depends on the quality and spot of  the sensor. This what a friend of mine has bought recently in order to combine it with heated pad. You got to buy a plastic dome for the whole pad.

1 minute ago, Phoenikakias said:

It depends on the quality and spot of  the sensor. This what a friend of mine has bought recently in order to combine it with heated pad. You got to buy a plastic dome for the whole pad.

Oh I see. Mine only switches off the heat mat if the temperature goes above 30C but doesn't show you real time temperatures. I just inserted a termometre a few times and it was always about 27-28C. 

A dome above the entire pad is actually a good idea. The only thing is that condensation on the dome will make water droplets fall on the mat which is dangerous..

1 hour ago, ego said:

Oh I see. Mine only switches off the heat mat if the temperature goes above 30C but doesn't show you real time temperatures. I just inserted a termometre a few times and it was always about 27-28C. 

A dome above the entire pad is actually a good idea. The only thing is that condensation on the dome will make water droplets fall on the mat which is dangerous..

Use your ingenuity and construct your own propagation system. You can incorporate a pc fan to blow away any corcerns of condensed humidity. I am growing right now Chamaedorea seedlings in the box and have set therefore thermostat to 24 -25 C. This did not prevent the first seed from Livistona in Ethnikos to germinate.

 

On 3/22/2022 at 6:11 AM, ego said:

Any advice on how to make them sprout? Should I put the bags under strong light? I planted the seeds from RPS 3 weeks ago. None has sprouted yet. Some are in ziplock bags, some in regular potting bags and some in a covered propagator. All sit on heat mats (27-30C) under grow lights. Medium is 60% perlite and 40% soil. 

I tried to germinate beccariophoenix alfredii before and no seed sprouted but back then I didn't use a heat mat. And they were from a different supplier. 

I planted my seed from RPS in community tubs, no heat mats, 50/50 peat and perlite mixture pre moistened and kept covered until signs of germination.  

My last batch I received Jun 2 2021, first germination was noted July 25, 2021, so about 9 weeks.

11 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Use your ingenuity and construct your own propagation system. You can incorporate a pc fan to blow away any corcerns of condensed humidity. I am growing right now Chamaedorea seedlings in the box and have set therefore thermostat to 24 -25 C. This did not prevent the first seed from Livistona in Ethnikos to germinate.

 

Livistona in Ethnikos? I don't understand.

Btw I see that in the propagator one pot is in a bag and one is not. Why's that?

10 hours ago, Scott W said:

I planted my seed from RPS in community tubs, no heat mats, 50/50 peat and perlite mixture pre moistened and kept covered until signs of germination.  

My last batch I received Jun 2 2021, first germination was noted July 25, 2021, so about 9 weeks.

That's reassuring. It's been 4 weeks only for me. Let's see.

10 hours ago, ego said:

Livistona in Ethnikos? I don't understand.

Btw I see that in the propagator one pot is in a bag and one is not. Why's that?

Because the pot out of a bag contains an already germinated and popping seedling, which needs light and better aeration. There are two old Livistona specimens in Ethnikos Kipos, which produce every few decades some seeds. I feel lucky and blessed, that I was finally able to see and pick up from the soil three such seeds.  A rather common sp (not in Greece however), so nothing special generally, just a rare occasion for the fans of Ethnikos Kipos.

11 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Because the pot out of a bag contains an already germinated and popping seedling, which needs light and better aeration. There are two old Livistona specimens in Ethnikos Kipos, which produce every few decades some seeds. I feel lucky and blessed, that I was finally able to see and pick up from the soil three such seeds.  A rather common sp (not in Greece however), so nothing special generally, just a rare occasion for the fans of Ethnikos Kipos.

I see. Tbh I don't know how to tell a livistona from a washingtonia... 

11 minutes ago, ego said:

I see. Tbh I don't know how to tell a livistona from a washingtonia... 

Very easy, Washingtonia has split leaf bases, Livistona not. Besides, if plants are cleaned of old leaf bases and older leaves, of which leaf bases could already become visible, the only  locally relatively common Livistona is chinensis, which has a far less spiny habit than Washingtonia. 

Edited March 24, 20224 yr by Phoenikakias