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avoiding frost by planting canopy trees


Josh-O

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All Acacia are nitrogen fixers so they are great for the soil. Not a terribly long lived genus with a few exceptions, but they are super fast. Maybe worth a try if the thought of a Eucalyptus is too much.

Acacia longifolia (Sydney wattle) is considered a weed here on the west coast but it may do the trick for you. I've got a couple of volunteers coming up in the middle of my pine forest of all places.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Hey Josh-O, thanks for the suggestion. I couldn't find Acadia Dealbata listed in nurseries, so I suppose it would have to be by seed only. Here is one interesting comment that someone made on DavesGarden about the seeds:

  • Grows easily from seed, but the seed has a hard case and can lie dormant for 50 years or more. Usual technique for germination is to pour boiling water onto seed and allow to cool in the water before sowing. This usually results in a good germination even with very old seed. (http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/2499/#ixzz3QT3kxaxV)

Also, DavesGarden says that this tree will only reach 20 or 30 feet in height. I doubt that this is tall enough to serve as an effective overhead canopy for palms, but I could be wrong. The photos I saw online showed mature Acacia Dealbata only reaching up as high as the second storey of the adjacent buildings. However, I am no expert on this tree and others may know more about their compatibility with understorey growth.

Daves garden is correct about the boiling water method. You can also take a blow touch and singe the seeds to get them to crack open. I just sowed 200 seed I bought off amazon.com. I'm hoping to have some sprouts in about 3 weeks time. There are a few gardens here in California that have this tree growing to heights of 30+ I'm using this tree to start out protecting smaller 1-15 gal plants from the summer sun and protect them from the occasional winter frost. Once the palms are acclimated. I will prune back or cut the Acacia tree down. The best features about this palm is that its a nitrogen fixer and an evergreen. Ohh, and it looks down right cool when the flowers bloom.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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All Acacia are nitrogen fixers so they are great for the soil. Not a terribly long lived genus with a few exceptions, but they are super fast. Maybe worth a try if the thought of a Eucalyptus is too much.

Acacia longifolia (Sydney wattle) is considered a weed here on the west coast but it may do the trick for you. I've got a couple of volunteers coming up in the middle of my pine forest of all places.

Thanks for the info Tyrone. This thread is a perfect example of how the palm community comes together to offer advice to other fellow palm nuts like me. This thread has been super helpful to find outstanding canopy trees for my new and upcoming botanical garden in Vista Ca.. :greenthumb::greenthumb::greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Hey guys --

I started looking at some of the options on this thread more closely and discovered: (a) that all of the Acacia species, although fast-growing, are probably not going to create a 70-foot high canopy because they won't really get over 30 feet tall; and (B) a lot of the Eucalyptus trees being sold around the US (by mail order, at least) are types that don't really exceed 50 feet in height. Then I came across someone selling EUCALYPTUS DALRYMPLEANA. This is a HUGE and fast-growing evergreen canopy tree. To understand the size of this tree, you really have to look up photos on the web. You need some serious land to grow this tree, or else have neighbours who won't mind the branches spreading across your property lines in all directions. It is huge.

EUCALYPTUS DALRYMPLEANA would provide a quick overhead canopy and some specimens are over 130 feet tall. At that height, you can plant whatever you want underneath, no matter how tall your palms are. Here is where I found it for sale: http://www.burntridgenursery.com/Eucalyptus-Trees/products/69/ In a one-gallon pot, it is being sold at this nursery for $20.00 and shipping to Florida (from Washington state) is $16.50. This tree will allegedly tolerate as low as -15 celcius, so anyone posting on this forum can grow it.

If there are any eucalyptus experts out there who think this would be an inappropriate canopy tree for any reason, please speak up now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found this link regarding Australian rainforest trees.

http://www.davidmcminn.com/ngc/pages/fastrainforest.htm

Now some will not suit frosty areas but some may. I've got some Ficus benjamina planted here that were not irrigated or looked after at all. As they're from a summer wet climate I hooked up some irrigation and a pile of manure around them and with almost instant results, they've bulked up with more foliage and a heap of figs. They're in pure clay, so here in summer they dry right out, so they kind of stop, then in winter it's likely too cold for growth. The period in between when it isn't too cold and rain is around is when they grew. With the warmth and water these things just take off. But they're not for a small backyard as they'll find all your sewerage pipes in a suburban yard. I can't wait for the roots to find the lake. I want to plant a few more including one on the island. I'm going to try and grow a few from cuttings.

"EUCALYPTUS DALRYMPLEANA would provide a quick overhead canopy and some specimens are over 130 feet tall. At that height, you can plant whatever you want underneath, no matter how tall your palms are. Here is where I found it for sale: http://www.burntridg...es/products/69/ In a one-gallon pot, it is being sold at this nursery for $20.00 and shipping to Florida (from Washington state) is $16.50. This tree will allegedly tolerate as low as -15 celcius, so anyone posting on this forum can grow it."

If you've got the room why not.

There are taller Eucalypts out there. Eucalyptus diversicolor (Karri) grows to 80m tall. I've got a few planted here. Eucalyptus regnans (Mountain Ash) reportedly has hit 114m tall (374 ft tall). I want a couple of them. :)

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Thanks Tyrone. I'll look into these suggestions :greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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  • 1 month later...

since my last post I bought lots of different seeds to start germinating my own canopy trees sine most nurseries don't carry the kind of trees I'm looking for.

This thread has been super helpful on driving my decision on what seed to buy.

pictures to come shortly..

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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  • 5 months later...

To anyone interested in my experiment ---

Six months later, I have had five eucalyptus cinerea in the ground for about six months now. Every single one of them has died over the course of the summer. I think one of them was even dead as early as April. The leaves simply turned brown and fell off.

I am not sure what killed them all. Some were in sunny locations. Some were in shade. All got plenty of water/rain. They were doing fine at the Florida nursery where I bought them, but not in my yard.

I am not sure if this a bad tree for Florida or simply a bad tree for my property, but you be the judge. They are beautiful trees and, supposedly, they stay evergreen at least as far as north as Columbia, South Carolina. Online sources lauded them for fast growth to twenty or thirty feet and for their aesthetic appeal.

Oh well. Josh-O, let us know how acacia dealbata turned out, although it may be a bit too early to ask.

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That's strange. I'm not familiar with that species though. Most Eucalypts I have here grow like weeds. Maybe something in the soil they didn't like, but normally Eucalypts aren't fussy about anything.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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from what I understand these are more of an arid climate tree.

Eucalyptus cinerea is native to southeastern Australia. It has become a popular landscape tree throughout much of the world, and is grown commercially for the “silver dollar” leaves widely used in the floral trade.

Culture

Light: Grow in full to part sun.Moisture: Like many other eucalypts, argyle apple is fairly drought tolerant. It does best in slightly acidic soils, rich in organic matter.Hardiness: USDA Zones 8 - 11. Argyle apple grows very fast from seed and can be grown in temperate climates outdoors as an annual shrub, reaching 6-8 ft (2-2.5 m) in height by the end of summer.Propagation: Like other eucalypts, argyle apple is easily propagated from seed. Propagation from cuttings is difficult.

They grow these here in California by the 100's of thousands for the floral industry. They have a menthol smell when the leaves are rubbed.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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not to mention they are very pretty

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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so far all my acacia dealbata are cranking. They are rocket ship fast after month 6. They seem to sit for a while getting their roots on before going vertical.

I cant wait to get them in my garden to form some quick canopy.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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As far as fast and hardy Eucalyptus to grow nothing compares with eucalyptus coccifera. from a one gallon it will grow to 50’ in five years, no kidding and it has a great smell to the leaves that make your garden smell really fresh. It also has one of the prettiest trunks with multi colors.

If you have room for acacia dealbata then beware it has a very dense and very wide canopy and pretty much no palms will grow underneath it since it will pretty much be full shade. Just keep that in mine. When in bloom the flowers put on a good show.

Edited by Palm crazy
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Derrick,

great choice. Eucalyptus deglupta is a very good grower for us in San Diego county

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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I agree Roger. Its an acacia that needs to be trimmed up/limbed to let some sun through.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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  • 3 months later...

BUMP!!

hers an update on some of the canopy trees I grew up from seed and planted out as canopy trees from all your wonderful suggestions earlier this year.

IMG_3312.JPG.aea80f4cc9bec855e235e03e012acacia dealbata

IMG_3309.JPG.26204cd28037d5a35261a186af6acacia tortilis

IMG_3311.JPG.546358695a9652d445ee01d4cd8schizolobium parahyba

IMG_3310.JPG.0c417ddef83c78e89c186ebed8beucalyptus deglupta(rainbow euc) 

 

 

 

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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On 8/31/2015, 5:32:46, enigma99 said:

I recently planted a Eucalyptus deglupta. Hope it does well!

how is your rainbow euc fairing? 

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

how is your rainbow euc fairing? 

It has grown quite a bit since I put it in late this year. I think next year it could easily double in height

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55 minutes ago, enigma99 said:

It has grown quite a bit since I put it in late this year. I think next year it could easily double in height

Gosh, they sure are fast. Glad to hear your is trucking right along.

mine picture above was a 2 inch seedling 31/2 months ago. very fast grower indeed. now 2' tall

 Keep us posted on how it does over the winter

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Eucalyptus deglupta is a nice looking seedling. I've never seen it anywhere over here.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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On 12/15/2015, 3:33:03, Tyrone said:

Eucalyptus deglupta is a nice looking seedling. I've never seen it anywhere over here.

I hope you can find one. They are very colorful even at a small age.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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If I can find one I'll definitely plant one. I also want that strawberry scented Eucalyptus as well. It's strange that in a place so totally full of Eucalyptus it's still hard to find certain ones.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Tyrone said:

If I can find one I'll definitely plant one. I also want that strawberry scented Eucalyptus as well. It's strange that in a place so totally full of Eucalyptus it's still hard to find certain ones.

That is weird, isn't Australia land of the gum's?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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17 hours ago, Tyrone said:

If I can find one I'll definitely plant one. I also want that strawberry scented Eucalyptus as well. It's strange that in a place so totally full of Eucalyptus it's still hard to find certain ones.

I'm about to plant some  Castanospermum australe (Moreton Bay Chestnut) trees

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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  • 1 month later...
On August 24, 2015 at 10:38:58 PM, Sandy Loam said:

To anyone interested in my experiment ---

 

Six months later, I have had five eucalyptus cinerea in the ground for about six months now. Every single one of them has died over the course of the summer. I think one of them was even dead as early as April. The leaves simply turned brown and fell off.

 

I am not sure what killed them all. Some were in sunny locations. Some were in shade. All got plenty of water/rain. They were doing fine at the Florida nursery where I bought them, but not in my yard.

 

I am not sure if this a bad tree for Florida or simply a bad tree for my property, but you be the judge. They are beautiful trees and, supposedly, they stay evergreen at least as far as north as Columbia, South Carolina. Online sources lauded them for fast growth to twenty or thirty feet and for their aesthetic appeal.

 

Oh well. Josh-O, let us know how acacia dealbata turned out, although it may be a bit too early to ask.

What did you wind up doing after your eucalyptus died? Find something more suitable?

.

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No, I gave up on adding canopy.  I am still thinking about those Acacia Dealbata, but I am a bit freaked out by how invasive they can be, according to some reports.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/3/2015, 1:30:12, Rafael said:

It depends on the climate you have.

Archontophoenix tuckery and alexandrae are not supposedly frost hardy.

I am about to plant queens, not as canopy, but as barrier.

I planted a bunch for exactly that purpose. Some crazed pendejo came roaring up my street in his Truck of Doom, apparently thinking it was a through street. When he noted it was not, he slammed on the brakes and almost lost control. I was sitting my office (where i am now) about 25 feet away.

I was concerned.

Queen palms will stop all but the biggest and heaviest pendejo-mobiles. Kings, no.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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  • 1 month later...

By the way, I see that someone is recommending the Ice Cream Bean tree (Inga Edulis) as a reasonably cold-hardy, very fast-growing canopy tree -- see page 7 of this thread:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36483-local-arizona-thread/&page=7

If I am not mistaken, the individual posting explained that the tree was damaged at 22 degrees Fahrenheit, but in the mid-twenties it was fine.  

 

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  • 7 years later...
On 1/4/2015 at 8:35 AM, MattyB said:

Yes Silas, Enterlobium are good massive canopy.

 

Josh, think about Bauhinia too. Not generally huge, but beautiful flowers.

 

Brachychiton as you've mentioned are good too. B. populneus needs no irrigation. B. acerfolius and B. discolor grow fast with little water.

 

Try some Coral trees, Erythrina. Lots of different species to choose from.

 

China Berry grows fast and needs no water.

I thought erythrina are deciduous in the winter?

previously known as ego

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1 hour ago, Than said:

I thought erythrina are deciduous in the winter?

Most are, though ..as mentioned elsewhere... Some will loose more of their leaves than others..  Near- Evergreen or totally deciduous  really doesn't matter. They're planted for their flowers more than how much / long they may retain leaves.

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8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 

There is one in my neighbourhood. I'll wait and see. 

previously known as ego

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On 4/7/2016 at 4:03 PM, Sandy Loam said:

By the way, I see that someone is recommending the Ice Cream Bean tree (Inga Edulis) as a reasonably cold-hardy, very fast-growing canopy tree -- see page 7 of this thread:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36483-local-arizona-thread/&page=7

If I am not mistaken, the individual posting explained that the tree was damaged at 22 degrees Fahrenheit, but in the mid-twenties it was fine.  

 

No way on mid twenties being fine. Recover yes, being fine no way. I have 3 in the yard and my mom has two. 30 is total leaf drop and small limb damage,  less that is like 2 inch diameter branch damage. 

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Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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16 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

No way on mid twenties being fine. Recover yes, being fine no way. I have 3 in the yard and my mom has two. 30 is total leaf drop and small limb damage,  less that is like 2 inch diameter branch damage. 

That's good to know cos I was planning to try it for canopy but we get 27 F here. Does it drop its leaves at 34F?

previously known as ego

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Italian Cypress can work well.  Eastern Hemlock can work.  But, this would depend on where the person is located for any practical applications.  Anyway, I'm just giving some general ideas for people who may be located in certain areas.

Edited by RFun
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6 hours ago, RFun said:

Italian Cypress can work well.  Eastern Hemlock can work.  But, this would depend on where the person is located for any practical applications.  Anyway, I'm just giving some general ideas for people who may be located in certain areas.

Italian Cypress ..for Canopy?  ..Decent option for a windbreak  ..but not something that would create any  canopy..

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6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Italian Cypress ..for Canopy?  ..Decent option for a windbreak  ..but not something that would create any  canopy..

I think he means Italian pine tree

previously known as ego

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15 minutes ago, Than said:

I think he means Italian pine tree

Questionable... Two, very distinctly different trees.. Very hard to confuse.  Grew up around more of each than i can count, lol. 

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1 minute ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Questionable... Two, very distinctly different trees.. Very hard to confuse.  Grew up around more of each than i can count, lol. 

Sorry I don't mean to talk for RFun but I sometimes confuse conifers so I thought that was the case here 😁

previously known as ego

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On 4/7/2016 at 4:03 PM, Sandy Loam said:

By the way, I see that someone is recommending the Ice Cream Bean tree (Inga Edulis) as a reasonably cold-hardy, very fast-growing canopy tree -- see page 7 of this thread:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36483-local-arizona-thread/&page=7

If I am not mistaken, the individual posting explained that the tree was damaged at 22 degrees Fahrenheit, but in the mid-twenties it was fine.  

 

No way on mid twenties being fine. Recover yes, being fine no way. I have 3 in the yard and my mom has two. 30 is total leaf drop and small limb damage,  less that is like 2 inch diameter branch damage. 

 

34 seems fine for the tree. Mine is rather large now,  and that probably helps.

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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