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avoiding frost by planting canopy trees


Josh-O

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Hi Everybody Does anyone have any good suggestions for planting cool looking fast growing trees that would provide canopy in a few years to avoid frost and radiational freezes. I'm trying to build a micro climate for my Vista property. ALL SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

below are some trees that I've done a bit of research on myself

some tree species I have researched:

Tipu trees (fast grower)

Australian bottle tree (fast grower)

Ice cream bean tree (fast grower)

Chinese elm tree (fast grower)

Rainbow eucalyptus tree (fast grower)

schizolobium parahyba (fast grower)

fast growing palms I've researched:

Brahea clara

roystonea borinquena

Arconthophoenix maxima

parajubea torallyi

sabal blackburniana

Livistonia decipiens, drudei, austrails

what other species would be good canopy trees that I can grow here in San Diego California??

Thanks for your help and suggestions

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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I think the Brahea will be too slow to qualify as a good canopy former. Perhaps the Sabal as well?

Likely not a suggestion you want, but you could add Queens to the palm list.

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Hi Everybody Does anyone have any good suggestions for planting cool looking fast growing trees that would provide canopy in a few years to avoid frost and radiational freezes. I'm trying to build a micro climate for my Vista property. ALL SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

below are some trees that I've done a bit of research on myself

some tree species I have researched:

Tipu trees (fast grower)

Australian bottle tree (fast grower)

Ice cream bean tree (fast grower)

Chinese elm tree (fast grower)

Rainbow eucalyptus tree (fast grower)

schizolobium parahyba (fast grower)

fast growing palms I've researched:

Brahea clara

roystonea borinquena

Arconthophoenix maxima

parajubea torallyi

sabal blackburniana

Livistonia decipiens, drudei, austrails

what other species would be good canopy trees that I can grow here in San Diego California??

Thanks for your help and suggestions

caryota are very fast growing and make great canopy.Unfortunately they also die after flowering...I think archontophoenix tuckeri is even faster growing than maxima...for canopy's sake, if you go with an archie you might plant a triple to enhance the canopy coverage...

Paradise Hills, 4 miles inland, south facing slope in the back, north facing yard in the front

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Don't use any deciduous trees for canopy, they are worthless at providing protection and cause more problems with sunburn come spring than they do good. So any of the deciduous bottle trees(there are some evergreen species too though), Tipu and chinese Elm are no good for providing protection.

Another good, fast grower is Grevillea robusta, insanely fast but somewhat brittle wood. Avocado is a great, fast grower as well and can grow huge if you grow the Guatemalan form from seed(grafted trees are much less vigorous and dwarfed compared to seed grown avocado).

Its generally preferable to use primary forest trees rather than fast growing ''colonizers'' as your main and long term shade trees as they are much stronger, resilient and really beautiful trees. They can take twice as long or more to form proper canopy but once they form it, you really enjoy everything about them. They also make much less of a mess. Colonizer trees are good for ''breaking in'' a new area but for long term canopy, primary rainforest trees are the best! I would interplant them so that sun intolerant plants could be started under the shade of the colonisers and later on, the central primary forest tree takes over providing the shade of the area. The fast growing shade trees can remain, they will lose their lower branches progressively as the primary forest tree shades them while growing higher and higher.

A few i like are: Mango, Castanospermum australe, Stenocarpus sinuatus(doesn't spread much/not good for canopy but as a canopy gap filler, impressive foliage), Ficus benghalensis, Sloanea woolsii, Lychee. There are more i like but don't remember right now.

From your list above, i would highly suggest Eucalyptus deglupta and Schizolobium parahyba as they provide fast and most importantly really tall canopy. Beware that any tree, and how much more a huge tree, takes up a lot of water, thus its a big plus for growth rates if you have underground water. The underplantings will definitely appreciate more frequent watering and the tree will help big time in preventing rot problems by sucking up excess moisture in winter and providing texture to the soil for better anchoring.

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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You can get away with more room for palms if you plant large canopy trees instead of palms for canopy unless you want to wait longer and like the dense look. I wouldnt plant a Euc because the take so much water from everything around it and the leaves can be harsh when they drop around palms (oils). the good thing about trees is that you can trim to shape if they get too big, and they can be thinned out if you need dappled light where as palms dont have dense crowns to protect from frost ( most of the time).

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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You can get away with more room for palms if you plant large canopy trees instead of palms for canopy unless you want to wait longer and like the dense look. I wouldnt plant a Euc because the take so much water from everything around it and the leaves can be harsh when they drop around palms (oils). the good thing about trees is that you can trim to shape if they get too big, and they can be thinned out if you need dappled light where as palms dont have dense crowns to protect from frost ( most of the time).

I agree. Avoid Eucs like the plague. I have one on city property adjacent to my yard. They are a mess and a significant risk to dropping heavy branches on my palms during heavy weather events. Not to mention the negatives Jastin highlighted.
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I would also not use palms as main canopy expect really big species, as you will end up with too many trunk of a few species blocking the view of your slower and more beautiful species. I find palms do protect from frost, at least my Archontophoenix alexandrae does, but if you use sensitive species, they get beaten up themselves... The above mentioned trees are more resilient and hardy.

I do not see any negatives with Eucalypts and palms here, they coexist wonderfully. Many Australian palms live in Eucalypt forests in habitat as well as exotic palms in Australian forest gardens. Maybe its the water availability that plays a big role, here we have shallow underground water. Better consider the local advise on this matter.

Grevillea also supposedly suppresses plant growth with its dead leafs but i don't see much of a negative effect with it here either, the Rhopalostylis growing under it is my fastest growing one out of 3 growing away from it and getting more light actually, and the Lepidozamia hopei underneath it has grown to be my biggest from seed while its in much deeper shade then the others.

Heavy branch breakage and drop is a reality under any tall tree canopy, especially in bad weather. That is why many understory plants never get to keep many leafs in nature, cause of heavy branch and litter drop.

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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+1

I have several mature Queens and they are decent canopies. Probably better choices out there. During this freeze I had a decent sized Hawaiian Ti plant that was completely unprotected, but it had protection from the canopy. No damage

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Hi Everybody Does anyone have any good suggestions for planting cool looking fast growing trees that would provide canopy in a few years to avoid frost and radiational freezes. I'm trying to build a micro climate for my Vista property. ALL SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

below are some trees that I've done a bit of research on myself

some tree species I have researched:

Tipu trees (fast grower)

Australian bottle tree (fast grower)

Ice cream bean tree (fast grower)

Chinese elm tree (fast grower)

Rainbow eucalyptus tree (fast grower)

schizolobium parahyba (fast grower)

fast growing palms I've researched:

Brahea clara

roystonea borinquena

Arconthophoenix maxima

parajubea torallyi

sabal blackburniana

Livistonia decipiens, drudei, austrails

what other species would be good canopy trees that I can grow here in San Diego California??

Thanks for your help and suggestions

caryota are very fast growing and make great canopy.Unfortunately they also die after flowering...I think archontophoenix tuckeri is even faster growing than maxima...for canopy's sake, if you go with an archie you might plant a triple to enhance the canopy coverage...

Triples are a great Idea! Good suggestion :greenthumb: Thanks for your feed back

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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+1

I have several mature Queens and they are decent canopies. Probably better choices out there. During this freeze I had a decent sized Hawaiian Ti plant that was completely unprotected, but it had protection from the canopy. No damage

goes to show how important a good canopy is for our gardens. Thanks for your feed back :greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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I would also not use palms as main canopy expect really big species, as you will end up with too many trunk of a few species blocking the view of your slower and more beautiful species. I find palms do protect from frost, at least my Archontophoenix alexandrae does, but if you use sensitive species, they get beaten up themselves... The above mentioned trees are more resilient and hardy.

I do not see any negatives with Eucalypts and palms here, they coexist wonderfully. Many Australian palms live in Eucalypt forests in habitat as well as exotic palms in Australian forest gardens. Maybe its the water availability that plays a big role, here we have shallow underground water. Better consider the local advise on this matter.

Grevillea also supposedly suppresses plant growth with its dead leafs but i don't see much of a negative effect with it here either, the Rhopalostylis growing under it is my fastest growing one out of 3 growing away from it and getting more light actually, and the Lepidozamia hopei underneath it has grown to be my biggest from seed while its in much deeper shade then the others.

Heavy branch breakage and drop is a reality under any tall tree canopy, especially in bad weather. That is why many understory plants never get to keep many leafs in nature, cause of heavy branch and litter drop.

Kostas, you have a very good point about branches braking off in heavy wind events. I did not think of that. Thanks for your feedback!! :greenthumb::)

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Hi Everybody Does anyone have any good suggestions for planting cool looking fast growing trees that would provide canopy in a few years to avoid frost and radiational freezes. I'm trying to build a micro climate for my Vista property. ALL SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

below are some trees that I've done a bit of research on myself

some tree species I have researched:

Tipu trees (fast grower)

Australian bottle tree (fast grower)

Ice cream bean tree (fast grower)

Chinese elm tree (fast grower)

Rainbow eucalyptus tree (fast grower)

schizolobium parahyba (fast grower)

fast growing palms I've researched:

Brahea clara

roystonea borinquena

Arconthophoenix maxima

parajubea torallyi

sabal blackburniana

Livistonia decipiens, drudei, austrails

what other species would be good canopy trees that I can grow here in San Diego California??

Thanks for your help and suggestions

caryota are very fast growing and make great canopy.Unfortunately they also die after flowering...I think archontophoenix tuckeri is even faster growing than maxima...for canopy's sake, if you go with an archie you might plant a triple to enhance the canopy coverage...

I was thinking of planting caryoya at the perimeters of the garden so when they die I can cut them down easily. Great suggestion thanks :)

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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I think the Brahea will be too slow to qualify as a good canopy former. Perhaps the Sabal as well?

Likely not a suggestion you want, but you could add Queens to the palm list.

I vowed to never plant a queen palm unless it is some cooler type of syagrus other than queen ...lol :mrlooney: I like your suggestion of Parajubea Toryalli. when they get big they provide really good canopy and they hold up to anything thrown at them. Thanks for the suggestion Ben :greenthumb::greenthumb::)

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Don't use any deciduous trees for canopy, they are worthless at providing protection and cause more problems with sunburn come spring than they do good. So any of the deciduous bottle trees(there are some evergreen species too though), Tipu and chinese Elm are no good for providing protection.

Another good, fast grower is Grevillea robusta, insanely fast but somewhat brittle wood. Avocado is a great, fast grower as well and can grow huge if you grow the Guatemalan form from seed(grafted trees are much less vigorous and dwarfed compared to seed grown avocado).

Its generally preferable to use primary forest trees rather than fast growing ''colonizers'' as your main and long term shade trees as they are much stronger, resilient and really beautiful trees. They can take twice as long or more to form proper canopy but once they form it, you really enjoy everything about them. They also make much less of a mess. Colonizer trees are good for ''breaking in'' a new area but for long term canopy, primary rainforest trees are the best! I would interplant them so that sun intolerant plants could be started under the shade of the colonisers and later on, the central primary forest tree takes over providing the shade of the area. The fast growing shade trees can remain, they will lose their lower branches progressively as the primary forest tree shades them while growing higher and higher.

A few i like are: Mango, Castanospermum australe, Stenocarpus sinuatus(doesn't spread much/not good for canopy but as a canopy gap filler, impressive foliage), Ficus benghalensis, Sloanea woolsii, Lychee. There are more i like but don't remember right now.

From your list above, i would highly suggest Eucalyptus deglupta and Schizolobium parahyba as they provide fast and most importantly really tall canopy. Beware that any tree, and how much more a huge tree, takes up a lot of water, thus its a big plus for growth rates if you have underground water. The underplantings will definitely appreciate more frequent watering and the tree will help big time in preventing rot problems by sucking up excess moisture in winter and providing texture to the soil for better anchoring.

I just researched all the suggestions you gave me and I just love Stenocarpus sinuatus & Grevillea robusta trees. they are amazing and I have tons of room for big trees like these. Thanks for your awesome suggestions Kostas. Your knowledge of trees shines :greenthumb: :greenthumb: !!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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As the Eagles mentioned, every point of refuge has its price.

And, with canopy trees, there's always a price. Canopy palms, too.

All drop leaves, branches, fruit, flowers, sometimes entire trees. Some have roots that invade EVERYTHING. Some get so enormous they turn into Tree Kongs. Some get bugs like aphids that drip honeydew on things. Shade is good, but the deep, dark Shade of Death is not.

Others aren't so bad, though hassles are not absent.

RUN SCREAMING FROM: Willows, poplars, coarse Eucs, big Ficus, Schinus (Pepper trees), Sycamores, Ash (Fraxinus), Chorisia, Carrotwood (Cupania), Oaks. All of these, in my observation have fatally bad characteristics that make them unwise to plant, unless you're a sadist who wants to leave a hassle for the buyer of your place if you're selling. All but the oaks have aggressive roots; oaks beget Oak Root Fungus (Amillaria?), which won't usually bother palms (that I know of) but messes up a lot of other garden plants. For the love of all dieties, don't plant an Ash, and pull volunteers when they appear, or poison them. (Treat yourself to a good, loud, blood-curdling scream.)

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: These are NOT trouble free, but you can live with them, and so can your palms. Jacaranda, Liquidambar (some may disagree on that one), some Pines, "Mimosa," Cassia tree types (if you're careful), Schizolobium (I've heard), Sweetshade (Hymenosporum; so I've heard). I'm sure there are others that work under certain situations, too.

Remember, a chain saw is your best bud, even if you're not Leatherface. It can extricate you from errors in arborescent judgment. Or something like that.

PALMS. Kings are better than queens. I've used both. Queens are tough, drought tolerant and beautiful when happy. They're drought tolerant but also thirsty, which means, like a certain company, they suck everything out of the soil near them. Even ivy hates to grow near a group of queen palms. This applies to a group. One queen, or a hybrid, isn't as bad. They also drop massive amounts of seeds.

Kings are better. They need a lot of water, but they don't have rapacious tendencies like queens do. I have a bunch but they're not for everyone. Come see my garden and see . . .

  • Upvote 2

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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It depends on the climate you have.

Archontophoenix tuckery and alexandrae are not supposedly frost hardy.

I am about to plant queens, not as canopy, but as barrier.

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I think the Brahea will be too slow to qualify as a good canopy former. Perhaps the Sabal as well?

Likely not a suggestion you want, but you could add Queens to the palm list.

I vowed to never plant a queen palm unless it is some cooler type of syagrus other than queen ...lol :mrlooney: I like your suggestion of Parajubea Toryalli. when they get big they provide really good canopy and they hold up to anything thrown at them. Thanks for the suggestion Ben :greenthumb::greenthumb::)

Somewhat related, what about "abre ojos" queens? Know where to get any of those?

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Don't use any deciduous trees for canopy, they are worthless at providing protection and cause more problems with sunburn come spring than they do good. So any of the deciduous bottle trees(there are some evergreen species too though), Tipu and chinese Elm are no good for providing protection.

Another good, fast grower is Grevillea robusta, insanely fast but somewhat brittle wood. Avocado is a great, fast grower as well and can grow huge if you grow the Guatemalan form from seed(grafted trees are much less vigorous and dwarfed compared to seed grown avocado).

Its generally preferable to use primary forest trees rather than fast growing ''colonizers'' as your main and long term shade trees as they are much stronger, resilient and really beautiful trees. They can take twice as long or more to form proper canopy but once they form it, you really enjoy everything about them. They also make much less of a mess. Colonizer trees are good for ''breaking in'' a new area but for long term canopy, primary rainforest trees are the best! I would interplant them so that sun intolerant plants could be started under the shade of the colonisers and later on, the central primary forest tree takes over providing the shade of the area. The fast growing shade trees can remain, they will lose their lower branches progressively as the primary forest tree shades them while growing higher and higher.

A few i like are: Mango, Castanospermum australe, Stenocarpus sinuatus(doesn't spread much/not good for canopy but as a canopy gap filler, impressive foliage), Ficus benghalensis, Sloanea woolsii, Lychee. There are more i like but don't remember right now.

From your list above, i would highly suggest Eucalyptus deglupta and Schizolobium parahyba as they provide fast and most importantly really tall canopy. Beware that any tree, and how much more a huge tree, takes up a lot of water, thus its a big plus for growth rates if you have underground water. The underplantings will definitely appreciate more frequent watering and the tree will help big time in preventing rot problems by sucking up excess moisture in winter and providing texture to the soil for better anchoring.

I just researched all the suggestions you gave me and I just love Stenocarpus sinuatus & Grevillea robusta trees. they are amazing and I have tons of room for big trees like these. Thanks for your awesome suggestions Kostas. Your knowledge of trees shines :greenthumb: :greenthumb: !!
Lots of good advice here! I would avoid Grevelia robusta like the plague though. I got rid of several of them years ago. The constant leaf drop is nasty. I'm talking about MASSIVE amounts of drop year round enough to bury small palms, bromeliads, etc. in just a few days. There are lots of them growing around freeway offramps here and that's where they belong. Most of my canopy is made up of king and queen palms and they do a terrific job. I have a sixty year old naturally mushroom shaped Deodara cedar that shades a large portion of my front yard as does a Phoenix canariensis.
  • Upvote 2

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Jacaranda mimisifolia....pefect. 'Nuff sed! :winkie:

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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I think the Brahea will be too slow to qualify as a good canopy former. Perhaps the Sabal as well?

Likely not a suggestion you want, but you could add Queens to the palm list.

I vowed to never plant a queen palm unless it is some cooler type of syagrus other than queen ...lol :mrlooney: I like your suggestion of Parajubea Toryalli. when they get big they provide really good canopy and they hold up to anything thrown at them. Thanks for the suggestion Ben :greenthumb::greenthumb::)

Somewhat related, what about "abre ojos" queens? Know where to get any of those?

I know where to get lots of these. Its a crap shoot if they resemble the mother plant down in mexico. I've seen over a dozed growing in SD and they all look 100% like queens :( Bob's in San Clemente (at his old house) sure looks nice. I may just have to take the risk and hope for a good lucking queen. Great suggestion!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Jacaranda mimisifolia....pefect. 'Nuff sed! :winkie:

don't these make a huge mess? I think this is a good summer tree but doesn't t it loose it leaves in the winter?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Grevillea robusta:

640px-The_Scream.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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As the Eagles mentioned, every point of refuge has its price.

And, with canopy trees, there's always a price. Canopy palms, too.

All drop leaves, branches, fruit, flowers, sometimes entire trees. Some have roots that invade EVERYTHING. Some get so enormous they turn into Tree Kongs. Some get bugs like aphids that drip honeydew on things. Shade is good, but the deep, dark Shade of Death is not.

Others aren't so bad, though hassles are not absent.

RUN SCREAMING FROM: Willows, poplars, coarse Eucs, big Ficus, Schinus (Pepper trees), Sycamores, Ash (Fraxinus), Chorisia, Carrotwood (Cupania), Oaks. All of these, in my observation have fatally bad characteristics that make them unwise to plant, unless you're a sadist who wants to leave a hassle for the buyer of your place if you're selling. All but the oaks have aggressive roots; oaks beget Oak Root Fungus (Amillaria?), which won't usually bother palms (that I know of) but messes up a lot of other garden plants. For the love of all dieties, don't plant an Ash, and pull volunteers when they appear, or poison them. (Treat yourself to a good, loud, blood-curdling scream.)

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: These are NOT trouble free, but you can live with them, and so can your palms. Jacaranda, Liquidambar (some may disagree on that one), some Pines, "Mimosa," Cassia tree types (if you're careful), Schizolobium (I've heard), Sweetshade (Hymenosporum; so I've heard). I'm sure there are others that work under certain situations, too.

Remember, a chain saw is your best bud, even if you're not Leatherface. It can extricate you from errors in arborescent judgment. Or something like that.

PALMS. Kings are better than queens. I've used both. Queens are tough, drought tolerant and beautiful when happy. They're drought tolerant but also thirsty, which means, like a certain company, they suck everything out of the soil near them. Even ivy hates to grow near a group of queen palms. This applies to a group. One queen, or a hybrid, isn't as bad. They also drop massive amounts of seeds.

Kings are better. They need a lot of water, but they don't have rapacious tendencies like queens do. I have a bunch but they're not for everyone. Come see my garden and see . . .

Thanks for the wonderful suggestions Dave!! I like the mimosa tree, I think I'll drink beer under it when it gets bigger. Great suggestion!! :greenthumb::greenthumb::)

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Jacaranda mimisifolia....pefect. 'Nuff sed! :winkie:

don't these make a huge mess? I think this is a good summer tree but doesn't t it loose it leaves in the winter?

They make a mess, but not a bad one. The seed pods are the worst part. The leaves and flowers are small and don't smother. They're so pretty when they bloom. They have a heavy drop season, but never go completely bare.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Grevillea robusta:

640px-The_Scream.jpg

LMAO :floor::floor::floor: !!!!!!

  • Upvote 1

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh,

The leaflets are very small and decompose quickly, great mulch/compost. The flowers are beautiful in the late winter and early spring, Well worth the mess they make.

I just swept up a pile of them and used them as a bottom feeding for a newly potted Stone PIne. they will feed the roots in a few weeks.

They are fast growers and provide total canopy in the summer (when it is needed) and let light in in the winter and spring when it is needed.

The beauty of this tree is worth it to me.

JC

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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Someone a century and in one case 2 centuries ago did that by planting these large Live Oaks. And while it takes many years for them to get the size they are here, they are very fast growing when young, too.

  • Upvote 1

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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You are welcome Josh :)

Branches break for many reasons, not only high winds. As older branches get shaded under the canopy of the growing trees, they get rejected and die. From then on, these can break at any point, following wind, rain or animals walking on them. Thankfully they are much lighter then as they usually have dried in the meantime and thus do little damage compared to live ones breaking off in high winds. In any case, one must always watch out, wether walking under trees, palms, buildings or whatever, especially in windy situations!

Those species are really nice indeed! The leafs of Stenocarpus sinuatus are especially impressive, even as leaf litter. Here is one when relatively freshly fallen and fully dried many months latter,with my hand for scale:

IMG_2480a_zps489c262d.jpg

5F11DC94-0CA3-4758-9430-7B5FD9E74B93_zps

New leafs are pinkish/red :)

Ficus and Eucalypts grow to be some of the most awesome trees there are. Almost all of those tree species are planted here in Greece, even in small residential lots. People value their beauty and at least here, they are not interested in retail value as they are not interested in ever selling their property, especially if they are happy with it :)

I much prefer tree canopy to palm canopy for providing protection

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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:)

You are welcome Josh :)

Branches break for many reasons, not only high winds. As older branches get shaded under the canopy of the growing trees, they get rejected and die. From then on, these can break at any point, following wind, rain or animals walking on them. Thankfully they are much lighter then as they usually have dried in the meantime and thus do little damage compared to live ones breaking off in high winds. In any case, one must always watch out, wether walking under trees, palms, buildings or whatever, especially in windy situations!

Those species are really nice indeed! The leafs of Stenocarpus sinuatus are especially impressive, even as leaf litter. Here is one when relatively freshly fallen and fully dried many months latter,with my hand for scale:
IMG_2480a_zps489c262d.jpg

5F11DC94-0CA3-4758-9430-7B5FD9E74B93_zps
New leafs are pinkish/red :)


Ficus and Eucalypts grow to be some of the most awesome trees there are. Almost all of those tree species are planted here in Greece, even in small residential lots. People value their beauty and at least here, they are not interested in retail value as they are not interested in ever selling their property, especially if they are happy with it :)
I much prefer tree canopy to palm canopy for providing protection

Do Stenocarpus sinuatus hold their leaves year around? That leaf makes your hand look small . I really like the look of this tree. Awesome pictures by the way. :) :) :greenthumb: :greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh,

The leaflets are very small and decompose quickly, great mulch/compost. The flowers are beautiful in the late winter and early spring, Well worth the mess they make.

I just swept up a pile of them and used them as a bottom feeding for a newly potted Stone PIne. they will feed the roots in a few weeks.

They are fast growers and provide total canopy in the summer (when it is needed) and let light in in the winter and spring when it is needed.

The beauty of this tree is worth it to me.

JC

John, you have a good point!! Mulch is good..Not to mention how beautiful this tree is. Do you ever find that the leaves land in the crown shaft, pile up then decompose and harming the palm tree. I have had bad experiences with pepper trees doing this to some of my palms. Is this tree a water hog or drought tolerant?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Someone a century and in one case 2 centuries ago did that by planting these large Live Oaks. And while it takes many years for them to get the size they are here, they are very fast growing when young, too.

Keith, what kind of oaks do you have growing that are fast? The ones I have in California are called Black oaks and are painfully slow but very pretty. :)

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Sent you a PM regarding the abre ojos. I need me some of them!

I'll check

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Stenocarpus sinuatus is fully evergreen and grows through winter. The leafs trully are that big(35-40cm), though they vary a lot in shape, from wide strap to multilobbed like this one :)

Btw, my aunt refers to my Grevillea robusta as "the tree that always sheds leafs". The leaf litter under it is always 5cm thick plus and small bromeliads indeed get buried. Not vigorous palm seedlings like Chamaedorea tepejilote(Blanco) though, not even young Ceroxylon amazonicum don't gets buried. Everything is littered of course, nothing a little hand cleaning doesn't resolve(for a few minutes, till new leafs fall) :)

I have never encountered rot problems from leafs collecting in crownshafts and growth centers. Grevillea's leafs make an especially airy mulch that doesn't end up a slimy rotting mass like leafs of chinaberry tree end up.

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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Josh,

I have never watered mine. It is 25 feet tall after nine years in the ground with about a 20 foot spread....

It is one of my favorite trees, including my palms.......very impressive.

I usually cut the understory branches in order to trim it up and get more headroom...I will soon be to the point I'll need a ladder to do so.

JC

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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Stenocarpus sinuatus is fully evergreen and grows through winter. The leafs trully are that big(35-40cm), though they vary a lot in shape, from wide strap to multilobbed like this one :)

Btw, my aunt refers to my Grevillea robusta as "the tree that always sheds leafs". The leaf litter under it is always 5cm thick plus and small bromeliads indeed get buried. Not vigorous palm seedlings like Chamaedorea tepejilote(Blanco) though, not even young Ceroxylon amazonicum don't gets buried. Everything is littered of course, nothing a little hand cleaning doesn't resolve(for a few minutes, till new leafs fall) :)

I have never encountered rot problems from leafs collecting in crownshafts and growth centers. Grevillea's leafs make an especially airy mulch that doesn't end up a slimy rotting mass like leafs of chinaberry tree end up.

Ok, I just put this one on my list to buy. thanks Kostas for your help!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh,

I have never watered mine. It is 25 feet tall after nine years in the ground with about a 20 foot spread....

It is one of my favorite trees, including my palms.......very impressive.

I usually cut the understory branches in order to trim it up and get more headroom...I will soon be to the point I'll need a ladder to do so.

JC

when does the Jack A. fully loose all it leaves?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Surprised that Carob trees haven't been suggested.. No doubt the flowers do stink.. and a heavy crop of pods can be quite a mess. Despite that, the large tree we had hanging over our fence back in San Jose kept my Chamaedoreas and other sensitive stuff from certain death during a freeze. Thick evergreen cover kept that side of the yard cooler during the summer also.

Wonder if Peltophorum or Enterolobium would work for canopy out there. Cork Oak is another thought that crosses my mind. Root issues with these perhaps??

Agree with DD, Silk Oaks (Grevillea robusta) are messy and dangerous.. Remember seeing bad windstorms shred these trees as a kid.

-Nathan-

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Yes Silas, Enterlobium are good massive canopy.

Josh, think about Bauhinia too. Not generally huge, but beautiful flowers.

Brachychiton as you've mentioned are good too. B. populneus needs no irrigation. B. acerfolius and B. discolor grow fast with little water.

Try some Coral trees, Erythrina. Lots of different species to choose from.

China Berry grows fast and needs no water.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Josh, your soil/weather and mine are totally different (mine is wet), so clumping bamboo might not be an option for you. But I find that a giant cane (canes 3 inches thick) weeping-type bamboo clump will get 40 feet tall and shade out/give overhead canopy to everything around it. As the bamboo spreads outwards, you won't be able to see the silhouette of the palm as well, but it's a cool look when a palm is intermingled with bamboo fronds (I'll try to post some photos from Jacksonville Zoo which has great examples of this jungly look). I would not recommend the bamboos which are very upright-growing because they won't provide overhead canopy (e.g. bambusa oldhamii), but the more weeping ones will give a decent amount of canopy to palms in the 20-foot height range (not really tall palms). One of the fastest-growing is probably bambusa malingensis and it had a semi-weeping habit for me, though perhaps not as much as my giant-cane bambusa ventricosa "Buddha Belly" (not to be confused with the other "Buddha Belly" bamboo which is not cold hardy). In one six-month period, my bambusa malingensis grew tons of canes for me and I could see that it was just too vigorous for the size of my yard, so I gave it away. You need serious space for these clumping bamboos, but they stay evergreen and look awesome with those huge, thick canes. Crazy fast --- possibly due to my wet clay soil, which you likely don't have in Vista, CA. They love water.

Do not plant running bamboo (obviously). Also, don't plant anything that is not one of the "giant" bamboos or else you won't get that 40 foot height and weep. This means no bamboo with skinny canes or even medium-sized canes. But be prepared to have a ten-foot radius clump of bamboo over time. At Kanapaha Botanical Gardens (Gainesville, FL), they dig around the base of certain bamboos and use a reciprocal saw to control the size of the rhizome in places where the bamboo would eventually grow up against a sidewalk, etc.

For small palms, you might also consider planting Schleffera Actynophylla for canopy, but it would only serve as canopy for a couple of palms nearby. The only reason that this came to mind is that it is so extremely fast-growing that you wouldn't have to wait long for it to become a tree (plus, the small ones are cheap $8.99 at HD) --- even though it is not a traditional canopy tree. It looks great too, although some people complain that its roots choke out other plants and are just too vigorous.

....not traditional canopy trees by any means, but stuff that will keep your tropical look going. Now I will wait for everyone else to disagree with me.

Good luck.

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