tjwalters Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've been seeing references to this "new species," but nothing official. There is no mention of it on the Kew site. Does anyone have information on its official status? Tom Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7a hardiestpalms.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Good question, Tom. I've got several here at my folks' place in Gainesville, and one has been flowering (male) for a few years now. Some have been getting seeds from their plants already, so here we are second generation after its introduction and it still has no name. Poor little palm, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=59665 Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=42&hilit=nova&start=15 Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 http://palmvrienden.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5982 Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 http://www.palms.org/principes/1995/princeps.htm Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flow Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Here's my seedling, the one on the right. I think there are flowering plants in GB. They're fast. No white to the underside so far, allegedly comes with age. Very slender trunk and ultra thin petioles. The left plant is a purported T. princeps hybrid sold by various nurseries in Europe. Said to be a cross between princeps and nova or fortunei. Could well be. Fast growing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=59665 http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=42&hilit=nova&start=15 http://palmvrienden.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5982 http://www.palms.org/principes/1995/princeps.htm So I think what you're telling us is "no"? I didn't see any recent information in any of those links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) By the way, 2 out of the 4 I have here in Gainesville have what appears to be crown rot. Not sure if they will pull our of it or not, but the other 2 look fine. They start getting bunchy towards the top, and the spear is brown. Probably just too hot and humid here for them. The T. wagnerianus I have here had that problem last year, but grew out of it (for now). Edited January 4, 2015 by Frank - Knoxville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flow Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) It is just no valid species. It was brought into cultivation as T. princeps seeds. When people realized they had something else they just called it princeps "green" for obvious reasons. Then, of course, you need some good attribute to be able to sell it anyway. So tell people it is fast and has white undersides of the leaves. Tah dah. I'm not saying it's all made up, my seedling looks completely different from any other I have had. You should ask Garry Tsen who has posted on this board about nova and princeps quite a lot. He would also be the only one who has seen nova in the wild (at least so say his pictures). He'd be a good candidate for describing it. http://price.coldplant.com/Category/Trachycarpus_Nova.html Edited January 4, 2015 by Flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I was one of the ones that bought seeds when RPS offered them as T. princeps. They sat in pots for a few years, fairly neglected, before planting out. They definitely are fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=59665 http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=42&hilit=nova&start=15 http://palmvrienden.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5982 http://www.palms.org/principes/1995/princeps.htm So I think what you're telling us is "no"? I didn't see any recent information in any of those links. If you read all the links, it could be extrapolated that theTrachycarpus sp. 'Nova' may be a variant of T. princeps. Found growing near a group T. princeps, some seed was collected. It also is suggested that these "inferior T. Princeps" were destroyed to prevent them back crossing into the rare T. princeps population. Trachycarpus sp. 'Nova' may never achieve official horticultural recognition unless those lucky few who have them can get them to seed and further ones are established. 1 Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwalters Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Kew makes no mention of it - not even as a synonym - so it seems to be, at the moment at least, just another name being tossed around. I suppose I was wondering if any work was currently being done (by anyone qualified) to determine if it warranted any type of official status. Tom Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7a hardiestpalms.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Last weeks I planted 4 mature Trachycarpus sp Nova in my future palmetum. They show similarities with T.princeps but also a lot of differences. 1 2 Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil. Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm I am seeking for cold hardy palms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Detail of the back of the leaf of another T. sp Nova specimen. 1 Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil. Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm I am seeking for cold hardy palms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Mi biggest T. princeps 1 1 Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil. Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm I am seeking for cold hardy palms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatiansoap Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Beautie!!! So Braheish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flow Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Beautiful plants, Alberto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks! Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil. Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm I am seeking for cold hardy palms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthFlpalmguy Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Beautiful palms Alberto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmsrgreat Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Awesome Alberto, love seeing your garden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Alberto, your 'Nova' have a lot more whiteish undersides than mine do. Mine are pretty darn green. I took pictures a few days ago, will upload in a couple of days after I get home. They do have that ragged look though. That T. princeps is beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 OK, here's what mine look like in Gainesville, FL. Two look fine, including the biggest one, but the other two look like they have a fungus. I hope they grow out of it. The biggest one, and the only one that has flowered so far. It is a male. The smallest one in the background is sick. Crown is all bunchy and the emerging spears are brown. Fungus has attacked two of them. Really skinny trunk on this one. This is the 2nd tallest one, also with fungus. The little one in the foreground seems fairly healthy still. Undersides of the leaves don't seem any whiter than a normal T. fortunei to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Mine were transplanted a few weeks ago, and i asked the owner of the nursery to elect the more silver ones. That is probably the reason yours show more green..... Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil. Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm I am seeking for cold hardy palms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 OK, here's what mine look like in Gainesville, FL. Two look fine, including the biggest one, but the other two look like they have a fungus. I hope they grow out of it. The biggest one, and the only one that has flowered so far. It is a male. The smallest one in the background is sick. Crown is all bunchy and the emerging spears are brown. Fungus has attacked two of them. Really skinny trunk on this one. This is the 2nd tallest one, also with fungus. The little one in the foreground seems fairly healthy still. Undersides of the leaves don't seem any whiter than a normal T. fortunei to me. You need to poor hydrogen peroxide over the areas that are brown to arrest that fungus. Pour some right into the crown shaft also, bacterial rot could develop if you don't. The hydrogen peroxide won't hurt if if you use the drug store stuff which is a 3% solution. Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthFlpalmguy Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Does anyone know if this typical of the species to not show much of the white underside yet? I assumed at their age it would be much more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exotic Life Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Mi biggest T. princeps That princeps is huge and awesome Alberto! Southwest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillizard Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I got several Trachycarpus sp. 'Nova' palms bare root from Joe Barrett at https://texascoldhardypalms.com/ early in 2016. The palms were labeled as having germinated in 7/15. And as of today, 8/23/17, this is how all three of them look. Fast growth and they can take the intense summer heat and full sun here in interior NorCal without complaint. I might plant them close together to shade my T. princeps which can't take the full sun here! Edited August 23, 2017 by Hillizard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasColdHardyPalms Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 Looking Good! These were germinated from Garry (Cold Plant) seed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Anyone have updates on cold hardiness or what soils they hate and like? LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 On 2/24/2018, 2:36:14, mdsonofthesouth said: Anyone have updates on cold hardiness or what soils they hate and like? I can only say that they don’t do well in the sandy soils in North Florida...but neither do most Trachycarpus. I only have one male left there, and it’s struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Bigfish said: I can only say that they don’t do well in the sandy soils in North Florida...but neither do most Trachycarpus. I only have one male left there, and it’s struggling. Yeah I'll be a little sad when I move to Florida and cant grown them as easily. Edited March 4, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwalters Posted March 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Any updates on T. "nova" status? Kew still doesn't even list it as a synonym. Tom Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7a hardiestpalms.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 4 hours ago, tjwalters said: Any updates on T. "nova" status? Kew still doesn't even list it as a synonym. I’m not sure who is responsible for Trachycarpus at Kew? All I know is that it could be said that they may be not that interested? The last time I was they 2 years ago they had a newly planted T.ukrhulensis in the recently renovated temperate house named as T.manipur which was an old name for it many years ago. There is no question that nova is something different in my opinion. I have both male and female plants of the original nova collected from the wild, the ones sold as princeps back in 2003. They were originally called green princeps as many people will remember. They were super fast growing for me, and over the years I have produced pure seed and also crossed with princeps, the resulting seedlings for the cross are equally fast, if not faster growing, producing split leaf seedlings inside of a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 This is my male nova. The backs of the leaf are grey and the trunk is lacking fibre in the way you would expect to see in fortunei. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjwalters Posted March 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, Vic said: I’m not sure who is responsible for Trachycarpus at Kew? All I know is that it could be said that they may be not that interested? The last time I was they 2 years ago they had a newly planted T.ukrhulensis in the recently renovated temperate house named as T.manipur which was an old name for it many years ago. There is no question that nova is something different in my opinion. I have both male and female plants of the original nova collected from the wild, the ones sold as princeps back in 2003. They were originally called green princeps as many people will remember. They were super fast growing for me, and over the years I have produced pure seed and also crossed with princeps, the resulting seedlings for the cross are equally fast, if not faster growing, producing split leaf seedlings inside of a year! Kew recognizes Trachycarpus ukhrulensis, but with no synonyms. Tom Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7a hardiestpalms.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, tjwalters said: Kew recognizes Trachycarpus ukhrulensis, but with no synonyms. Exactly, but they can’t label their own plant correctly. If doesn’t fill you with confidence. You can only assume that the people responsible for planting the palms do not have anything to do with those who are keeping records. Very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillizard Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Here are two of the three T. nova I got from Joe Barrett at https://texascoldhardypalms.com/ . They have almost no white powder on the leaf undersides like my T. princeps (3rd picture below). Their leaves get scorched here at the peak of our summer. The last picture looks like a T. nova that I purchased from an Oregon nursery as T. nana (which it's obviously not!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester B Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Vic said: This is my male nova. The backs of the leaf are grey and the trunk is lacking fibre in the way you would expect to see in fortunei The trunk looks pretty hairy to me. You'd be hard pressed to find one with any more fibre than yours around here. I always see these photos of UK trachycarpus that look like shaggy dogs, it's like the ones in the UK have come from a different locale than North American ones. From what I see in pictures of Nova, is that they are tall and slender and hold onto fronds top to bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chester B said: The trunk looks pretty hairy to me. You'd be hard pressed to find one with any more fibre than yours around here. I always see these photos of UK trachycarpus that look like shaggy dogs, it's like the ones in the UK have come from a different locale than North American ones. From what I see in pictures of Nova, is that they are tall and slender and hold onto fronds top to bottom I don’t think they are hairy, this is the female from the same batch of seed, picture was taken several years ago, the trunk is now 12ft. I don’t grow fortunei so I don’t have it to compare, but the waggies I grow resemble Cocothrinax crinita... very hairy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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