Borassus aethiopium

[Tyrone]

Just been up to Broome in Australia's tropical NW and collected some Borassus aethiopium seed. Was astounded at these plants. Who's growing these in warm but not tropical locations? I'm going to try it here. Am I right in saying that if you can grow a green Bismarckia you can probably grow these? RLR's encyclopedia says zone 10 and 11 for these, so I'm thinking I'll be OK. What are the experiences out there? The fruit smelt OK too considering it was starting to ferment a bit. Forgive the phone camera shots.

Best regards

Tyrone

[peachy]

Tyrone, my green bizzie has just survived its first winter here and its been a terrible one. He looks a bit tired and tatty after the endless cold but he is hanging in there and a new spear is halfway up. I would say its worth a shot, if a green bizzie lived through my winter this year then almost anything similar should.

Peachy

[Daryl]

Tyrone, I've got some growing here. They are very slow in their early stages, so need to be planted in full sun, away from anything else that may eventually shade them. Once they get shaded, they do nothing, especially in a cooler climate. I'm sure if you had monsoonal heat all year round it wouldn't make a difference, but if you have a winter, keep them in full sun...sun + heat = growth shade + cool = death

regards,

Daryl

[Pedro 65]

Great score Tyrone, gee the seed alone without germinating looks fantastic, would it dry and polish well? Cheers Pete

[ariscott]

it is the fruit, Pete... the seed in the middle of that purple thing.... Good luck Ty... they do get huge though, so make sure you give it plenty of room. Scott likes them... me, I am not too sure. That is why I don't have one yet. There is a borrasus at the George Brown botanical garden that kept on dropping fruit/seeds every year... but I am not sure which species.

Regards, Ari

[Pedro 65]

it is the fruit, Pete... the seed in the middle of that purple thing.... Good luck Ty... they do get huge though, so make sure you give it plenty of room. Scott likes them... me, I am not too sure. That is why I don't have one yet. There is a borrasus at the George Brown botanical garden that kept on dropping fruit/seeds every year... but I am not sure which species.

Regards, Ari

Cheers Ari, i didnt take much notice did I, RPS sells them at nearly 10 Euros ea, but im sure its to cover postage. Ari have you snapped a pic of that Fantastic Dypsis White in the city? Cheers Pete

[Daryl]

it is the fruit, Pete... the seed in the middle of that purple thing.... Good luck Ty... they do get huge though, so make sure you give it plenty of room. Scott likes them... me, I am not too sure. That is why I don't have one yet. There is a borrasus at the George Brown botanical garden that kept on dropping fruit/seeds every year... but I am not sure which species.

Regards, Ari

Ari, all of the Borassus in Darwin are B.flabellifer....did you know that they are naturalised at East Point??? Plenty of them growing wild there..

Daryl

[ariscott]

Cheers Ari, i didnt take much notice did I, RPS sells them at nearly 10 Euros ea, but im sure its to cover postage. Ari have you snapped a pic of that Fantastic Dypsis White in the city? Cheers Pete

I did go pass, Pete, but it was getting dark... I was on my way back from visiting the government house open day the other day. I didn't get there till 6!!! Silly Scott... I will take photos when I go again... It is the one near the government house right? Or is there another one I don't know about??

Thanks Daryl.... I am not sure I like them....... I like corypha better, I think....

Regards, Ari

[Tyrone]

Thanks Daryl for that info. Bismarckia are pretty slow as youngsters here but probably more forgiving than Borassus. They reportedly put down a 45cm sinker, so I'm thinking of making some custom pots up maybe 60cm deep. The full sun bit is going to be tough. May have to grow them for a while on my shed roof! I would like to plant one in my front yard one day when I build the courtyard, but a Tahina and a Borassus may be a bit over the top. Perth has heaps of sun hours and gets blistering hot in summer, so I'm thinking some sort of pebbled garden in full sun may be the go. I could plant it as my verge tree.

Broome had heaps of these growing everywhere, and I think locals would pick the odd seed up from the ones at the old courthouse where I got mine and just planted them around the place.

Pete, the fruit actually contains 3 seeds all set at 120 degrees if you know what I mean. The outer black bit is thick but rips open easily to reveal tons of mango like fibres that kind of smells like a mix between a butia seed and a mango although mine were starting to ferment. Reportedly edible and eaten by elephants which is probably this palms dispersal mechanism. The fibres don't come off easily. I had to cut around the seed with scissors to shorten the fibres back to a flattish sort of disc much like the look of a very large Caryota seed covered in mango fibres 6-8cm across.

Ari, you should grow a heap of these. The fruit is edible. Would probably make a nice fruit wine from the pulp, not unlike a mango wine. Nat just told me to tell you that she doesn't like them either.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Pedro 65]

Thanks Daryl for that info. Bismarckia are pretty slow as youngsters here but probably more forgiving than Borassus. They reportedly put down a 45cm sinker, so I'm thinking of making some custom pots up maybe 60cm deep. The full sun bit is going to be tough. May have to grow them for a while on my shed roof! I would like to plant one in my front yard one day when I build the courtyard, but a Tahina and a Borassus may be a bit over the top. Perth has heaps of sun hours and gets blistering hot in summer, so I'm thinking some sort of pebbled garden in full sun may be the go. I could plant it as my verge tree.

Broome had heaps of these growing everywhere, and I think locals would pick the odd seed up from the ones at the old courthouse where I got mine and just planted them around the place.

Pete, the fruit actually contains 3 seeds all set at 120 degrees if you know what I mean. The outer black bit is thick but rips open easily to reveal tons of mango like fibres that kind of smells like a mix between a butia seed and a mango although mine were starting to ferment. Reportedly edible and eaten by elephants which is probably this palms dispersal mechanism. The fibres don't come off easily. I had to cut around the seed with scissors to shorten the fibres back to a flattish sort of disc much like the look of a very large Caryota seed covered in mango fibres 6-8cm across.

Ari, you should grow a heap of these. The fruit is edible. Would probably make a nice fruit wine from the pulp, not unlike a mango wine. Nat just told me to tell you that she doesn't like them either.

Best regards

Tyrone

So Tyrone, for best gemination sounds like you have to eat it and go and squat in your yard where you want it to grow On a serious note, did you get many? Ari, yes the Dypsis sp is nearer Australia House(just back from a T intersection) Cheers Pete

[Daryl]

Tyrone, for best germination technique on Borassus, buy some 150mm PVC pipe. Cut into 600mm lengths and then cut in half (ie straight down the middle). Buy some end caps for the bottom. Gaffer tape the halves back together, and tape the (bottom) end on. Fill with a loose, sandy mix. Place the seed in the top of the pipe and just cover it. Water and stand upright in the sun. For stability, tape several pipes together.

This gives the sinker room to move when it germinates. Eventually you will see some top growth, and once you see this, open the pipe up by removing the tape. You should see a cotyledon about 500mm long. It will be semi translucent. You should be able to spot the eophyll inside. Cut the top off the cotyledon and then plant it at the correct depth (corresponding to root initiation zone). This will give you a head start, rather than burying the plant and waiting for the first leaf, which in a cool climate is likely to rot off in the first winter.

There are other methods, but this one has worked a charm for me, with 100% success ratio.

regards,

Daryl

[Daryl]

So Tyrone, for best gemination sounds like you have to eat it and go and squat in your yard where you want it to grow On a serious note, did you get many? Ari, yes the Dypsis sp is nearer Australia House(just back from a T intersection) Cheers Pete

That wouldn't be a pretty site at the end of the day...

[Tyrone]

Tyrone, for best germination technique on Borassus, buy some 150mm PVC pipe. Cut into 600mm lengths and then cut in half (ie straight down the middle). Buy some end caps for the bottom. Gaffer tape the halves back together, and tape the (bottom) end on. Fill with a loose, sandy mix. Place the seed in the top of the pipe and just cover it. Water and stand upright in the sun. For stability, tape several pipes together.

This gives the sinker room to move when it germinates. Eventually you will see some top growth, and once you see this, open the pipe up by removing the tape. You should see a cotyledon about 500mm long. It will be semi translucent. You should be able to spot the eophyll inside. Cut the top off the cotyledon and then plant it at the correct depth (corresponding to root initiation zone). This will give you a head start, rather than burying the plant and waiting for the first leaf, which in a cool climate is likely to rot off in the first winter.

There are other methods, but this one has worked a charm for me, with 100% success ratio.

regards,

Daryl

Thanks for that info. Should be able to make that all up. Not sure if I've got this right, so what you are saying that once the seed has put it's 500mm sinker down, you unearth it all, cut the sinker and seed off and repot the new palm at a higher more normal level??? Wouldn't that take away the palms nutrients, or have I totally misunderstood this.

Pete I wouldn't want to pass one of those seeds. Actually a human couldn't swallow such a large seed. I did get a few seed though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[sonoranfans]

I have a seedling in the ground here in palmetto. Rod Anderson has 2 juveniles planted from seed in phoenix AZ see post 7 of this thread:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=15006&st=0&p=252727&hl=+rod%20+andersons%20+desert%20+jungle&fromsearch=1&#entry252727

My understanding is that Rods Aethiopum have not been phased at all by 23F in phoenix and his flabellifer(in the same thread) was defoliated but came back strong. But in phoenix there is never a significant frost regardless of temps due to low humidity. The aethiopum are gorgeous palms and are best planted as seeds or small seedlings as they send a deep sinker root down to ~160cm deep. I also saw some down at steve sterns in miami. By comparison, Rods looked healthier, seemed to hav emuch better color. So Im thinking they prefer the hot dry desert w/deep regular watering in the 105F+/- heat. Rod also says he doesnt water them in the winter season at all.

[Mandrew968]

I grew one(am growing still) and did it the old-fashioned way: put it in a huge pot and forgot about it for over a year. It wasn't until I was cleaning up and saw a big green strap leaf--over a foot long! did I know I had success.

Sometimes they have three seeds in one fruit, but some may only contain one to two seeds, depending on how large the fruit is. Tyrone, you can also start your seed in a six inch pot, check on it regularly, and when it starts to send down a radicle, just cut the bottom off the six inch pot and place it on top(not centered) of a larger pot with no bottom holes. Once the strap leaf comes out of the larger pot, then you can remove the smaller pot and you have a nice potted Borassus

WARNING: I think this palm is bigger than Corypha and Tahina at the base. Be advised where you place this beast!

[SubTropicRay]

There are several specimens of B. aethiopum and flabellifer in Dr. U.A. Young's south Tampa garden. All specimens were planted in the 1960's and survived the severe freezes of the 1970's and 1980's. They were also unphased by the 11 day cold snap of January 2010.

[Mandrew968]

Yes, some of these are fairly cold tolerant, but I have found that they are similar to a Bismarckia, in that some are much more cold tolerant than others. Sometimes a small Borassus will get killed off in cold that you thought it could handle. Of course size has a lot to do with a palm's cold tolerance...

[sonoranfans]

Yes, some of these are fairly cold tolerant, but I have found that they are similar to a Bismarckia, in that some are much more cold tolerant than others. Sometimes a small Borassus will get killed off in cold that you thought it could handle. Of course size has a lot to do with a palm's cold tolerance...

With both bismarckias and Borassus Aethiopum, wet feet with winter cold is more of a problem than dry feet with winter cold. I think part or this variability is just the wet problem. There are a number of palm species that will perish several degrees warmer with wet feet,and these are two. And it makes sense as both palms experience a dry cool season in their naive habitat.

[Tyrone]

Thanks for the info everyone, and the link back to the thread from Rod Anderson's garden. His garden is a really impressive desert garden. I checked out Phoenix Arizona's climate info and that place is a hellish place for palms. The winter day time temps are identical to mine but at night I'm a couple of C warmer. The difference is the rainfall as I get about 4 times the rainfall of Phoenix and of course the unrelenting dry desert heat in summer. Thankfully we have some humidity here in summer. I'm thinking that I'll attempt to germinate some of these and donate them to our palm park over here. Will look at making some tubes 1m plus high and will have to put some scaffolding on my shed roof to give them the full sun they need at my place. It will also get very very hot during summer up there. I'll put them on artificial heat first inside the house and watch them every day. By the time they have put a radicle out the weather will have warmed and they can go into a tube on the roof. I may even paint the tubes black to get really toasty. I'm not sure about depotting them and planting them higher. I'm scared I'd snap them. If rotting is the issue I may fill the top half of the tube with pure perlite and to keep the radicle moist as it moves down maybe put a plastic bag over the top of the tube to seal in the moisture. I can see myself climbing on my shed roof a lot in the near future. I can place them in a corner where I can keep an eye on them from my dining room while I'm on Palmtalk. That way I won't forget that they are there.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Maxim]

Borassus seed

[sonoranfans]

Thanks for the info everyone, and the link back to the thread from Rod Anderson's garden. His garden is a really impressive desert garden. I checked out Phoenix Arizona's climate info and that place is a hellish place for palms. The winter day time temps are identical to mine but at night I'm a couple of C warmer. The difference is the rainfall as I get about 4 times the rainfall of Phoenix and of course the unrelenting dry desert heat in summer. Thankfully we have some humidity here in summer. I'm thinking that I'll attempt to germinate some of these and donate them to our palm park over here. Will look at making some tubes 1m plus high and will have to put some scaffolding on my shed roof to give them the full sun they need at my place. It will also get very very hot during summer up there. I'll put them on artificial heat first inside the house and watch them every day. By the time they have put a radicle out the weather will have warmed and they can go into a tube on the roof. I may even paint the tubes black to get really toasty. I'm not sure about depotting them and planting them higher. I'm scared I'd snap them. If rotting is the issue I may fill the top half of the tube with pure perlite and to keep the radicle moist as it moves down maybe put a plastic bag over the top of the tube to seal in the moisture. I can see myself climbing on my shed roof a lot in the near future. I can place them in a corner where I can keep an eye on them from my dining room while I'm on Palmtalk. That way I won't forget that they are there.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone,

Rod said that Borassus seeds have a pretty low germination rate. Initially he was getting 1/10, now after he learned some things he is at 1/4(?). My recollection of his care for the Aethiopum in the desert was slow drip irrigation once a week for overnight(8-10 hrs) in the heat of summer, and rare watering in winter(<15c). He also said the roots of borassus are very sensitive, so get them into the ground as soon as possible. Also the first act of the palm, before growing leaflets is to send that tap root way down into the soil.

this is kind of hard in a container, and may thwart the natural tendency of the tree. Good luck and great idea to populate them in your area in public places. These palms are very drought tolerant when established as they grow in north africa not right next to but not too far from water sources so their deep roots can access water during the dry season. And yes they love heat, they grow faster in it, as you might expect from a palm that originates from north africa.

[Kris]

Here's a link on borassus seed germination....

Borassus flabellifer germinados!!

Love,

kris.

[Xenon]

Borassus aethiopium in South Texas

[Mandrew968]

Borassus aethiopium in South Texas

That doesn't look like a Borassus...

[Tyrone]

I think my seeds are actually from B flabellifer. Just put them on some warm perlite on top of my grow tank which will get into the 30's on there. They're very fresh but I'm hoping they don't germinate until winter has totally left the room over here, because that radicle will grow down at lightening speed and they need that 3ft tall pot tube thingy.

Best regards

Tyrone

[pfancy]

I just got a B. aethi from Rod about 2 weeks ago. regarding the establishment of the seed/seedlings Rod said it involves a multistep process so you should contact him directly. i will tell ya that when i took it out the 7gal bucket it was all root and endosperm at the bottom with a stem coming up to the surface ~10" then the strap leafs.

[pfancy]

I just got a B. aethi from Rod about 2 weeks ago. regarding the establishment of the seed/seedlings Rod said it involves a multistep process so you should contact him directly. i will tell ya that when i took it out the 7gal bucket it was all root and endosperm at the bottom with a hypocotyl coming up to the surface ~10" then the strap leafs.

[Tyrone]

Of 5 seeds I have kept I have 2 germinated. Now I'm panicking as it's not warm enough outside to put it into it's special 1m high pot yet and that radicle is going to grow like the beanstalk in Jack and the beanstalk.

Best regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

You can always put them in the bathroom

[Mandrew968]

The next generation--already getting radical, if you know what I mean...

[Sabal Steve]

Hello all,

I posted an ad a while back in the plants wanted forum as well. I'll be in South/South Central Florida around the second week of may and would like to pick up a small plant, or seeds if that wasn't available.

Interested in B. aethiopum or B. madagarcariensis.

Thanks

[Josh-O]

Just been up to Broome in Australia's tropical NW and collected some Borassus aethiopium seed. Was astounded at these plants. Who's growing these in warm but not tropical locations? I'm going to try it here. Am I right in saying that if you can grow a green Bismarckia you can probably grow these? RLR's encyclopedia says zone 10 and 11 for these, so I'm thinking I'll be OK. What are the experiences out there? The fruit smelt OK too considering it was starting to ferment a bit. Forgive the phone camera shots.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone, did any germinate??

Also what are you cold winters like?