Jump to content
FIRST IPS “WEEKEND BIENNIAL” EVENT REGISTRATION NOW OPEN ×

  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

the speed of the mule

sonoranfans

By sonoranfans
in COLD HARDY PALMS

 Share

Recommended Posts

Tampa Scott Mentor

Tampa Scott

Posted
Posted

sorry! Here are the male flowers...

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Westcoastgal. The spathe is yellow inside even though the inflorescence is pink. There was a red outline on the spathe when it first opened. Mark made me try the backcross on this one. I only got one seedling out of it. Here is a photo. Same pink flower in the photos before.

post-1930-0-64460100-1364780139_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-84436200-1364780242_thumb.jp

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Scott that looks like a good seed. And obviously there is male flowers there on your Mule palm. From what I gather on looking at all the mature ones the mule palms seem to be 90% Male pollen free. This photo is of the same tree pictured above and you can clearly see Male flowers on it. I am curious as to see what your F2s look like when they grow up as we have given all of ours away.

post-1930-0-48248400-1364780824_thumb.jp

  • Upvote 1
Tampa Scott Mentor

Tampa Scott

Posted
Posted

Erik, The seed on the palm now is from a mid Feb. flowering. At that time I saw no queen or Butia palms in flower around, this may be a self pollination. On the current flowering I have now removed the male flowers washed down the palm and will let the Butia growing 15' away now coming in to flower do the work.

  • 3 weeks later...
Darkman Enthusiast

Darkman

Posted
Posted

Axel it appears you like the mules that have more of the queen in it. There are a lot of factors out there and other pollinators as well. They select specific queens or butias they want to work with because they prefer the look of them. Even if you use the same queen and the same butia you are going to have variations. We have had runts, doubles, triples, quads, mutants, skinny, fat etc. The Mules with the skinnier trunks would be my guess to picking one out that has the open crown. Where as the fatter trunked Mules seem to take on more of the Butia.

Good thread. I am enjoying the Cold Hardy Forum and will now try to visit more often. I have not been active in a while.

Erik I have a double and was wondering if you have made any observations about them? Will it grow slower than two singles in the same hole? One of them is growing faster than the other which is fine if it continues as it will give me a layered effect.

I'm not sure where this one came from, maybe you. I got it from Paul Gallop but I'm not sure where he got them.

Darkman in Pensacola - Looking for cold hardy palms and plants that make Pensacola look tropical

Life - Some assembly required, Side effects frequently experienced, Mileage may vary, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!

Statistics - Opinions that analyst twist to support the insanity of those that pay them.

spockvr6 Grand Master

spockvr6

Posted
Posted

Here is one of Scott's mules I got for my father 4 or 5 years ago. It was 2 or 3 ft tall when planted!

MulePalm_zpsd965380d.jpg

  • Like 1

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

That is a nice fat Mule Larry. Darkman from what I have observed they do grow a bit slower being doubles or triples. It is hard to find them where one is not outgrowing the other. Paul has gotten some from us in the past but he has an extensive collection so it is possible the one you have came from someone else you should ask him.

post-1930-0-69296900-1366207910_thumb.jp

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Not sure why that last photo came out sideways. Here is a photo of a single and a double the same age.

post-1930-0-60777200-1366208603_thumb.jp

  • Upvote 1
sonoranfans Grand Master

sonoranfans

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is one of Scott's mules I got for my father 4 or 5 years ago. It was 2 or 3 ft tall when planted!

MulePalm_zpsd965380d.jpg

Nice specimen Larry! that thing is wide in trunk and wide and thick in crown... 5 years of growth from 3', its a rocket!

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

  • 2 weeks later...
Tampa Scott Mentor

Tampa Scott

Posted
Posted

Well the fruit are ripe now and I opened 2 more.

  • Upvote 1
  • 4 months later...
sonoranfans Grand Master

sonoranfans

Posted
  • Author
Posted

And here is my mule as of thanksgiving 2012, 27 months later, about 8' overall height, It is a beauty, planted on the east side of my house, so it gets sun from sunrise to about 3PM in summer. this is my fastest cold hardy feather palm, a bit faster than phoenix sylvestris, and also more cold hardy... What I love about this palm, aside from its beauty, is that I can count on it to laugh at cold and frost, while helping keep my yard beautiful and warmer in winter. Anybody else out there have some mule pics or stories of mule growth and hardiness.

And less than one year later this mule is just ripping along, a very fast palm now about 12' tall. I don't uynderstand why anyone would buy one of these palms bigger than 5-7 gallon, they grow so fast. This palm has put on 4' of height is less than on year. Two more months of warm growing season will make one year since the last pic I posted.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

  • 10 months later...
Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

Bump. Nice mule discussion. Any comparison of these mules with some of the newer mules with yatay and paraguayensis?

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Axel it appears you like the mules that have more of the queen in it. There are a lot of factors out there and other pollinators as well. They select specific queens or butias they want to work with because they prefer the look of them. Even if you use the same queen and the same butia you are going to have variations. We have had runts, doubles, triples, quads, mutants, skinny, fat etc. The Mules with the skinnier trunks would be my guess to picking one out that has the open crown. Where as the fatter trunked Mules seem to take on more of the Butia.

Good thread. I am enjoying the Cold Hardy Forum and will now try to visit more often. I have not been active in a while.

Erik I have a double and was wondering if you have made any observations about them? Will it grow slower than two singles in the same hole? One of them is growing faster than the other which is fine if it continues as it will give me a layered effect.

I'm not sure where this one came from, maybe you. I got it from Paul Gallop but I'm not sure where he got them.

I have not noticed them growing in slower being doubles or triples. I have sent quite a few to Paul you may want to ask him.

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

post-1930-0-26571600-1405529838_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-91606900-1405529888_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-41681400-1405529946_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-03797500-1405529983_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-81335200-1405530000_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-32248500-1405530018_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-92539700-1405530035_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-78682600-1405530068_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-22807200-1405530095_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-63888000-1405530138_thumb.jp

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Zeeth Grand Master

Zeeth

Posted
Posted

Any progress with the S. amara mule, Erik?

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

No progress Keith. I did one batch and they all aborted.

Duppy Enthusiast

Duppy

Posted
Posted

Great pics Erik! Can't wait till mine get that big. The ones you sent me last month are chugging along even in this Texas heat. High 90's, 60% humidity, in full sun. All have new fronds and haven't even winced at the baking they're getting!

v/r

Dup

Zeeth Grand Master

Zeeth

Posted
Posted

No progress Keith. I did one batch and they all aborted.

That's too bad. Maybe they're too distantly related.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

NorthFlpalmguy Proficient

NorthFlpalmguy

Posted
Posted

Hey Erik- have you tried combining mules at the 3-7 gal stage for multiples? I have found that one butia will not dominant the weaker as bad using this method... or at least so far it has not happened as badly as it did as using multiple seedlings in one pot. the butias are so slow growing that it might not have showed yet also haha

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Duppy Enthusiast

Duppy

Posted
Posted

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

Agreed, although that double to me is pretty spectacular.

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

The double looks nice but it will look much better once the trunk/crown ratio improves. Those trunks still look too fat, they need to grow a least to double what they are now.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Hey Erik- have you tried combining mules at the 3-7 gal stage for multiples? I have found that one butia will not dominant the weaker as bad using this method... or at least so far it has not happened as badly as it did as using multiple seedlings in one pot. the butias are so slow growing that it might not have showed yet also haha

Yes you can plant them together at that stage. I will get a photo of some that have been planted as 3 gallons in 45 gallon containers a few years ago.

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

That would be me Axel.

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

Good to put a face to a name. :)

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

A few more photos.

post-1930-0-43442500-1405534549_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-82207600-1405534577_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-57491700-1405534605_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-41798700-1405534645_thumb.jp

post-1930-0-65403700-1405534688_thumb.jp

_Rich Rising Star

_Rich

Posted
Posted

really cannot beat a Mark Heath Mule - no two ways about it. Many try - few have what Mark has to offer.

Bottom line - if you want a mule in FL - Mark Heath is your contact.

This data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall the providers be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from lost data or lost profits or revenue, the costs of recovering such data, the costs of substitute data, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use the data. Other terms may apply.

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

Can you post some pictures of mark's mules?

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

I would like to see how Marks Mules are doing myself. I know he was looking for some government contracts when we spoke in the past and DOT is starting to buy some. He should get in the game for the no pants ranch.

Alicehunter2000 Grand Master

Alicehunter2000

Posted
Posted

I spoke to Mark a couple of months ago....he is no longer at the NPR and has moved. He was pretty busy with work and didn't have an internet connection at his new place yet. He moved a bunch of his stuff back to his nursery from his old house.

I have several large Mules from Mark and are very well grown, however, my latest palm is from Eric and I have to say his are well grown as well. So comparitively, any differences that may or may not occur in the future, have not shown up yet as the sizes are quite different.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

David are you saying he dug up all those Mule palms at NPR and moved them? That would not make any sense to me. To move all those palms would cost more then the trees. For those wanting to see photos of Marks Mules here is a link that was posted in the past. By the way any of you are welcome to use my photos that is why I share them on the internet but not for monetary gain.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/31069-fun-day-at-the-npr-palm-ranch/

Alicehunter2000 Grand Master

Alicehunter2000

Posted
Posted

I don't know if he dug up everything, but he had previously told me that he intended to move some of his stuff back to his main farm. It sounded to me like his new location was more favorable climate wise. He was also able to bring his tame "wild boar" to his new location. Of course he still has his and friends main palm farm where I assume the majority of his plants are located.

BTW Eric your mule appears happy in its new location.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

Good to hear David. I hope it performs well for you.

NorthFlpalmguy Proficient

NorthFlpalmguy

Posted
Posted

Great looking multiples Eric.

  • Upvote 1
  • 11 months later...
NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
Posted

My mule is growing slower than molasses in winter...

I think it put out a leaf since I planted it about 2 years ago...I can't really tell though, it looks the same every time I look at it

Ben in Norcal Grand Master

Ben in Norcal

Posted
Posted

My mule is growing slower than molasses in winter...

I think it put out a leaf since I planted it about 2 years ago...I can't really tell though, it looks the same every time I look at it

I find them quite slow around here as well. They seem slower than straight Butias.

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
Posted

Yes for sure slower than Butia.

I planted a Butia just last year and it has put out 6 new leaves since.

ErikSJI Veteran

ErikSJI

Posted
Posted

What size are they? Are they in the ground?

Ben in Norcal Grand Master

Ben in Norcal

Posted
Posted

I have two odorata x queen mules in the ground. Bought as 15g a few years back. Slow...my Butia yatay is definitely out-pacing both, on much less water.

Waiting to see how the yatay x queens go...put a couple seedlings in the ground last fall.

Certainly - Butia x PJC a completely different kettle of fish. Strap leaf seedling to 15g plant in less than a year. Holy cow...

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
Posted

Yes, both the mule and the Butia are in ground.

Also the mule has an issue with broken leaflets on a few leaves.

Not sure how or when this happened

post-332-0-22196800-1436929578_thumb.jpg

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...