the speed of the mule

[Tampa Scott]

sorry! Here are the male flowers...

[ErikSJI]

Westcoastgal. The spathe is yellow inside even though the inflorescence is pink. There was a red outline on the spathe when it first opened. Mark made me try the backcross on this one. I only got one seedling out of it. Here is a photo. Same pink flower in the photos before.

[ErikSJI]

Scott that looks like a good seed. And obviously there is male flowers there on your Mule palm. From what I gather on looking at all the mature ones the mule palms seem to be 90% Male pollen free. This photo is of the same tree pictured above and you can clearly see Male flowers on it. I am curious as to see what your F2s look like when they grow up as we have given all of ours away.

[Tampa Scott]

Erik, The seed on the palm now is from a mid Feb. flowering. At that time I saw no queen or Butia palms in flower around, this may be a self pollination. On the current flowering I have now removed the male flowers washed down the palm and will let the Butia growing 15' away now coming in to flower do the work.

[Darkman]

Axel it appears you like the mules that have more of the queen in it. There are a lot of factors out there and other pollinators as well. They select specific queens or butias they want to work with because they prefer the look of them. Even if you use the same queen and the same butia you are going to have variations. We have had runts, doubles, triples, quads, mutants, skinny, fat etc. The Mules with the skinnier trunks would be my guess to picking one out that has the open crown. Where as the fatter trunked Mules seem to take on more of the Butia.

Good thread. I am enjoying the Cold Hardy Forum and will now try to visit more often. I have not been active in a while.

Erik I have a double and was wondering if you have made any observations about them? Will it grow slower than two singles in the same hole? One of them is growing faster than the other which is fine if it continues as it will give me a layered effect.

I'm not sure where this one came from, maybe you. I got it from Paul Gallop but I'm not sure where he got them.

[spockvr6]

Here is one of Scott's mules I got for my father 4 or 5 years ago. It was 2 or 3 ft tall when planted!

[ErikSJI]

That is a nice fat Mule Larry. Darkman from what I have observed they do grow a bit slower being doubles or triples. It is hard to find them where one is not outgrowing the other. Paul has gotten some from us in the past but he has an extensive collection so it is possible the one you have came from someone else you should ask him.

[ErikSJI]

Not sure why that last photo came out sideways. Here is a photo of a single and a double the same age.

[sonoranfans]

Here is one of Scott's mules I got for my father 4 or 5 years ago. It was 2 or 3 ft tall when planted!

Nice specimen Larry! that thing is wide in trunk and wide and thick in crown... 5 years of growth from 3', its a rocket!

[Tampa Scott]

Well the fruit are ripe now and I opened 2 more.

[sonoranfans]

And here is my mule as of thanksgiving 2012, 27 months later, about 8' overall height, It is a beauty, planted on the east side of my house, so it gets sun from sunrise to about 3PM in summer. this is my fastest cold hardy feather palm, a bit faster than phoenix sylvestris, and also more cold hardy... What I love about this palm, aside from its beauty, is that I can count on it to laugh at cold and frost, while helping keep my yard beautiful and warmer in winter. Anybody else out there have some mule pics or stories of mule growth and hardiness.

And less than one year later this mule is just ripping along, a very fast palm now about 12' tall. I don't uynderstand why anyone would buy one of these palms bigger than 5-7 gallon, they grow so fast. This palm has put on 4' of height is less than on year. Two more months of warm growing season will make one year since the last pic I posted.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Bump. Nice mule discussion. Any comparison of these mules with some of the newer mules with yatay and paraguayensis?

[ErikSJI]

Axel it appears you like the mules that have more of the queen in it. There are a lot of factors out there and other pollinators as well. They select specific queens or butias they want to work with because they prefer the look of them. Even if you use the same queen and the same butia you are going to have variations. We have had runts, doubles, triples, quads, mutants, skinny, fat etc. The Mules with the skinnier trunks would be my guess to picking one out that has the open crown. Where as the fatter trunked Mules seem to take on more of the Butia.

Good thread. I am enjoying the Cold Hardy Forum and will now try to visit more often. I have not been active in a while.

Erik I have a double and was wondering if you have made any observations about them? Will it grow slower than two singles in the same hole? One of them is growing faster than the other which is fine if it continues as it will give me a layered effect.

I'm not sure where this one came from, maybe you. I got it from Paul Gallop but I'm not sure where he got them.

I have not noticed them growing in slower being doubles or triples. I have sent quite a few to Paul you may want to ask him.

[ErikSJI]

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

[Zeeth]

Any progress with the S. amara mule, Erik?

[ErikSJI]

No progress Keith. I did one batch and they all aborted.

[Duppy]

Great pics Erik! Can't wait till mine get that big. The ones you sent me last month are chugging along even in this Texas heat. High 90's, 60% humidity, in full sun. All have new fronds and haven't even winced at the baking they're getting!

v/r

Dup

[Zeeth]

No progress Keith. I did one batch and they all aborted.

That's too bad. Maybe they're too distantly related.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Hey Erik- have you tried combining mules at the 3-7 gal stage for multiples? I have found that one butia will not dominant the weaker as bad using this method... or at least so far it has not happened as badly as it did as using multiple seedlings in one pot. the butias are so slow growing that it might not have showed yet also haha

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

[Duppy]

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

Agreed, although that double to me is pretty spectacular.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The double looks nice but it will look much better once the trunk/crown ratio improves. Those trunks still look too fat, they need to grow a least to double what they are now.

[ErikSJI]

Hey Erik- have you tried combining mules at the 3-7 gal stage for multiples? I have found that one butia will not dominant the weaker as bad using this method... or at least so far it has not happened as badly as it did as using multiple seedlings in one pot. the butias are so slow growing that it might not have showed yet also haha

Yes you can plant them together at that stage. I will get a photo of some that have been planted as 3 gallons in 45 gallon containers a few years ago.

[ErikSJI]

Here are some photos I took this year of some Mules Axel. All are of the common Mule Butia Odorata.

Nice, Erik, the one with the fellow standing underneath is beautiful.

That would be me Axel.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Good to put a face to a name.

[ErikSJI]

A few more photos.

[_Rich]

really cannot beat a Mark Heath Mule - no two ways about it. Many try - few have what Mark has to offer.

Bottom line - if you want a mule in FL - Mark Heath is your contact.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Can you post some pictures of mark's mules?

[ErikSJI]

I would like to see how Marks Mules are doing myself. I know he was looking for some government contracts when we spoke in the past and DOT is starting to buy some. He should get in the game for the no pants ranch.

[Alicehunter2000]

I spoke to Mark a couple of months ago....he is no longer at the NPR and has moved. He was pretty busy with work and didn't have an internet connection at his new place yet. He moved a bunch of his stuff back to his nursery from his old house.

I have several large Mules from Mark and are very well grown, however, my latest palm is from Eric and I have to say his are well grown as well. So comparitively, any differences that may or may not occur in the future, have not shown up yet as the sizes are quite different.

[ErikSJI]

David are you saying he dug up all those Mule palms at NPR and moved them? That would not make any sense to me. To move all those palms would cost more then the trees. For those wanting to see photos of Marks Mules here is a link that was posted in the past. By the way any of you are welcome to use my photos that is why I share them on the internet but not for monetary gain.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/31069-fun-day-at-the-npr-palm-ranch/

[Alicehunter2000]

I don't know if he dug up everything, but he had previously told me that he intended to move some of his stuff back to his main farm. It sounded to me like his new location was more favorable climate wise. He was also able to bring his tame "wild boar" to his new location. Of course he still has his and friends main palm farm where I assume the majority of his plants are located.

BTW Eric your mule appears happy in its new location.

[ErikSJI]

Good to hear David. I hope it performs well for you.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Great looking multiples Eric.

[NorCalWill]

My mule is growing slower than molasses in winter...

I think it put out a leaf since I planted it about 2 years ago...I can't really tell though, it looks the same every time I look at it

[Ben in Norcal]

My mule is growing slower than molasses in winter...

I think it put out a leaf since I planted it about 2 years ago...I can't really tell though, it looks the same every time I look at it

I find them quite slow around here as well. They seem slower than straight Butias.

[NorCalWill]

Yes for sure slower than Butia.

I planted a Butia just last year and it has put out 6 new leaves since.

[ErikSJI]

What size are they? Are they in the ground?

[Ben in Norcal]

I have two odorata x queen mules in the ground. Bought as 15g a few years back. Slow...my Butia yatay is definitely out-pacing both, on much less water.

Waiting to see how the yatay x queens go...put a couple seedlings in the ground last fall.

Certainly - Butia x PJC a completely different kettle of fish. Strap leaf seedling to 15g plant in less than a year. Holy cow...

[NorCalWill]

Yes, both the mule and the Butia are in ground.

Also the mule has an issue with broken leaflets on a few leaves.

Not sure how or when this happened