I was looking at some rainforest in north qld the other day and spotted these palms. Lots of purple on these ones.

The seedlings from these plants lacked any white under the leaves or the little whiskers on the midrib that cunninghamiana has. Any thoughts.

Another one

Those are fine examples! Didn’t folks used to refer to this palm as Mt. Lewis or something? The Sullivans here have a beauty , unfortunately too tall to see the crownshaft. Harry

This has been there a super long time.

I believe the palm on the left is the Archontophoenix. The garden is very old. Not sure what the large one on the right is. These were taken a while ago when I was gathering seeds.

1 hour ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Those are fine examples! Didn’t folks used to refer to this palm as Mt. Lewis or something? The Sullivans here have a beauty , unfortunately too tall to see the crownshaft. Harry

This has been there a super long time.

I believe the palm on the left is the Archontophoenix. The garden is very old. Not sure what the large one on the right is. These were taken a while ago when I was gathering seeds.

This can’t be Archontophoenix purpurea, what was called Archontophoenix sp Mt Lewis. Archontophoenix purpurea is white under the leaves with those little whiskers under the middle vein. These palms have neither.

This area is around 900km (540 miles) further south than Mt Lewis. It’s Mt Dalrymple at about 1000m altitude.

Archontophoenix purpurea has large fruit. These guys have small fruit like alexandrae. Lots of rotten seed on the ground. It’s a bit early for ripe fruit on these. Lots of pink flowers and immature fruit.

Very interesting and beautiful palms, thanks for sharing. Mt Dalrymple is close to Eungella which is known as the northernmost population of A. cunninghamiana. Bangalows also would be more likely to have this coloration than alexandrae, I think. I wonder if they might be hybrids. I would love to see more in depth study of the genus, clearly there is a lot of variability within especially A. cunninghamiana.

As you are aware of this is the colouration of the southern population of bangalows. Iam leaning on purperea that was my first thought. And as discussed with you iam sure if it was a different species they would be onto it. Keep looking you just never know what you will find.

Trucking around the country side, be calling you the Leyland brothers next or is that Malcom Douglas.

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

This can’t be Archontophoenix purpurea, what was called Archontophoenix sp Mt Lewis. Archontophoenix purpurea is white under the leaves with those little whiskers under the middle vein. These palms have neither.

This area is around 900km (540 miles) further south than Mt Lewis. It’s Mt Dalrymple at about 1000m altitude.

Archontophoenix purpurea has large fruit. These guys have small fruit like alexandrae. Lots of rotten seed on the ground. It’s a bit early for ripe fruit on these. Lots of pink flowers and immature fruit.

I’m pretty sure that the Sullivans had this palm labeled correctly . Only one is Archontophoenix and the fronds and crown shaft are not visible in the photo . The fronds that are visible are not Archontophoenix but something else. The collection was started sometime in the 1950’s Pauline and her husband have both passed on but the son and , now grandson , are maintaining the properties that have the collections . The rotted fruit could be from something else , there are a lot of palms there and I’m not sure the Archie is fruiting , it is very old and super tall. It isn’t as tall as the Ceroxilyn but close! Unfortunately I couldn’t get a pic of the fronds or the Purple Crown , the trunk seems to disappear into the sky! Small city lot with lots of mature palms. I have Purple crown Archontophoenix juveniles from my friends palm and yes they have silver undersides like Maxima and Alexandrae . Harry

2 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I’m pretty sure that the Sullivans had this palm labeled correctly . Only one is Archontophoenix and the fronds and crown shaft are not visible in the photo . The fronds that are visible are not Archontophoenix but something else. The collection was started sometime in the 1950’s Pauline and her husband have both passed on but the son and , now grandson , are maintaining the properties that have the collections . The rotted fruit could be from something else , there are a lot of palms there and I’m not sure the Archie is fruiting , it is very old and super tall. It isn’t as tall as the Ceroxilyn but close! Unfortunately I couldn’t get a pic of the fronds or the Purple Crown , the trunk seems to disappear into the sky! Small city lot with lots of mature palms. I have Purple crown Archontophoenix juveniles from my friends palm and yes they have silver undersides like Maxima and Alexandrae . Harry

I’m sorry I probably didn’t word it right. I don’t doubt that the palm you posted in Pauleen Sullivans garden is correctly labeled and really is Archontophoenix purpurea. What I meant was the palm I posted up can’t be Archontophoenix purpurea because it’s 900km south of the Mt Lewis area. The purple palm I posted has no white under the leaflets, or whiskers under the mid rib. All Archontophoenix purpurea are white underneath and have those whiskers. Seed size is vastly different between the two as well as first leaf size of seedlings. Archontophoenix purpurea has large bifid leaves for ages. These ones are small from the beginning.

Misunderstanding , sorry!

That is curious . The palm in your pic sure is purple , I didn’t even look at the fronds for further ID . Lovely palm though . Maybe the cooler mountain temps at play ? Harry

Some more pictures. Some details of a fallen leaf and seedlings.

A very tall one that the leaf fell off in the earlier picture

Hey Tyrone. I've seen mention that A. Cunninghamiana growing in the Eungella national park display the purple crownshaft quite like A. Purpurea.
Are you out that way perhaps?

A bit off topic, does the backside of the leaves of A purpurea combine ramenta with whitish wax?

4 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

A bit off topic, does the backside of the leaves of A purpurea combine ramenta with whitish wax?

That is correct. Silver/Grey abaxial with ramenta.

1 hour ago, Jayce said:

Hey Tyrone. I've seen mention that A. Cunninghamiana growing in the Eungella national park display the purple crownshaft quite like A. Purpurea.
Are you out that way perhaps?

I was out that way Jayce. That’s where these pics came from. I wasn’t expecting to see the purple crown shafts I was just looking to see if we could find any bangalows and we found these purple ones quite unlike any Bangalow I’d seen before.

Hey Tyrone, nice find!

I've got a couple of Bangalows from seed that I collected at Peases Lookout, at about 900m, not far from Mt Dalrymple. Still just young plants in pots, so don't know whether they'll have much colour or not yet, but I do recall the mature palms in the area looked quite distinct from their southern cousins, which is why I grabbed a few seeds.

I don't remember seeing anything like the ones you posted though...wild! Hopefully you found a few seeds?

Jonathan, it was your comments from 14 years ago on Palmtalk that made me go to Peases Lookout for Bangalows because the two times before that I visited Eungella I went the other way near the sky window and Broken River and I found mainly alexandrae. I didn’t know there was anything up Dalrymple road. All the palms at Peases Lookout appear to be this purple Bangalow. I was really stumped when I saw the ones at Peases Lookout and ventured further up Dalrymple Rd to find stunning rainforest and a place loaded with purple Bangalows. The next day we drove the entire length and started walking an overgrown track to Mt Dalrymple but only went 300-400m because the track was so overgrown and the sign said you need a topographic map, a gps, and good first aid because you’re on your own up there. We weren’t prepared, but I’d love to one day do that entire walk.

After Peases Lookout as you go higher the alexandrae are very hard to find if not no longer there. What was interesting is that the Calamus stop as well up the Dalrymple road.

So if you are growing the ones from Peases Lookout you have the purple version.

Once my eyes had been opened to the purple Bangalow I went down to Broken river and found a few of these purple ones there and found some seedlings which matched the ones at Peases Lookout and further up but that forest was dominated by alexandrae ( a beautiful version too). I found seedlings that matched the purple seedlings at Broken River ( green underneath and no ramenta). I even found a juvenile Bangalow that was the traditional full green with small ramenta. So maybe there are 3 types of Archontophoenix growing up there. It pays to look at the details.

So Jonathan, it was thanks to you that I found these. Your ones are the purple form.

Any pictures? What do the leaf undersides look like.

I’m not a botanist, just a humble horticulturist, but if this version of purple Bangalow was named, I reckon Archontophoenix cunninghamiana var dalrymplensis would be a good one for the purple picabeen.

Naming things is purely academic though. The real fun is in the growing.

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

Jonathan, it was your comments from 14 years ago on Palmtalk that made me go to Peases Lookout for Bangalows because the two times before that I visited Eungella I went the other way near the sky window and Broken River and I found mainly alexandrae. I didn’t know there was anything up Dalrymple road. All the palms at Peases Lookout appear to be this purple Bangalow. I was really stumped when I saw the ones at Peases Lookout and ventured further up Dalrymple Rd to find stunning rainforest and a place loaded with purple Bangalows. The next day we drove the entire length and started walking an overgrown track to Mt Dalrymple but only went 300-400m because the track was so overgrown and the sign said you need a topographic map, a gps, and good first aid because you’re on your own up there. We weren’t prepared, but I’d love to one day do that entire walk.

After Peases Lookout as you go higher the alexandrae are very hard to find if not no longer there. What was interesting is that the Calamus stop as well up the Dalrymple road.

So if you are growing the ones from Peases Lookout you have the purple version.

Once my eyes had been opened to the purple Bangalow I went down to Broken river and found a few of these purple ones there and found some seedlings which matched the ones at Peases Lookout and further up but that forest was dominated by alexandrae ( a beautiful version too). I found seedlings that matched the purple seedlings at Broken River ( green underneath and no ramenta). I even found a juvenile Bangalow that was the traditional full green with small ramenta. So maybe there are 3 types of Archontophoenix growing up there. It pays to look at the details.

So Jonathan, it was thanks to you that I found these. Your ones are the purple form.

Any pictures? What do the leaf undersides look like.

Great stuff Tyrone, I'll meet you up there in a few years for the full Dalrymple Expedition, although it sounds like we might need some guys with machetes to walk in front! We drove a bit past Peases Lookout but turned back before the forest that you found, regrettably.

A cunninghamiana var dalrymplensis sounds good to me...the Eungella Bangalow, quite a mouthful. I'll take some pics of mine this morning and post them shortly.

Here we go, A cunninghamiana var dalrymplensis!

These were abandoned in small tubes for many years in a deep dark corner of the greenhouse, as I'd given up on planting anything at South Arm that needed water. When we bought our new place a few years ago, with it's abundance of water I banged them into these big pots without any expectations, but they've rebounded nicely and are ready to go in the ground.

Not sure how different they look from any other Bangalow at this stage but time will tell.

Sorry, the close up pics aren't great. The ramenta extends up the petiole on the newer leaves but is almost absent on the rachis. There is no ramenta at all on the petioles of the older, smaller leaves, as per the seedlings you saw.

I just checked and there are several purple crownshaft Archontophoenix visible on the lower section of Dalrymple Rd on google maps (the only section with streetview) mixed in with a multitude of what looks like A alexandrae. Beautiful palms, would love to visit that area someday.

@Tyrone Consider adding the ones you found as observations to inaturalist, there is very little data on Archontophoenix from that area and it would be a good start for someone in the future to come along and study this population.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/D3Y34p55U8h1dZdV6

https://maps.app.goo.gl/x2kRFuYU9bqrmrcg9

Jonathan, we need better images of the dog.

11 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Here we go, A cunninghamiana var dalrymplensis!

These were abandoned in small tubes for many years in a deep dark corner of the greenhouse, as I'd given up on planting anything at South Arm that needed water. When we bought our new place a few years ago, with it's abundance of water I banged them into these big pots without any expectations, but they've rebounded nicely and are ready to go in the ground.

Not sure how different they look from any other Bangalow at this stage but time will tell.

Hey Jonathan. They are beautiful healthy specimens. I think an Archontophoenix purpurea at that stage would be green still, so I reckon they will colour up in time, maybe when they are just about to start trunking which is when purpurea does it in my experience. I bet you can’t wait to get em into the ground at your new place. Does your new place have that brown gravelly volcanic stuff they have in QLD. I’m envious of that soil. You really see it when they clear the sugar cane and leave that dark brown soil behind.

Some locals stopped near the top of the Dalrymple road and we chatted for a bit. At the higher elevation where they are the annual rainfall is about 3500mm per year but Eungella is about half that and Broken River less again. All Archontophoenix love there water but these guys really must do as well. I reckon fortnightly seasol and fish emulsion with a tray of water underneath would supercharge these guys.

My Archontophoenix purpurea I leave in a tray of water even through winter in Albany and they seem to love it.

Thanks for posting the pics of your ones. They’re way special.

10 hours ago, aabell said:

I just checked and there are several purple crownshaft Archontophoenix visible on the lower section of Dalrymple Rd on google maps (the only section with streetview) mixed in with a multitude of what looks like A alexandrae. Beautiful palms, would love to visit that area someday.

@Tyrone Consider adding the ones you found as observations to inaturalist, there is very little data on Archontophoenix from that area and it would be a good start for someone in the future to come along and study this population.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/D3Y34p55U8h1dZdV6

https://maps.app.goo.gl/x2kRFuYU9bqrmrcg9

That is really cool. I didn’t think to try that myself. The purple shows up really well. Good idea about inaturalist.

11 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Jonathan, we need better images of the dog.

By popular demand: Asta

11 months old, world class clown, spoilt little princess!

52 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Does your new place have that brown gravelly volcanic stuff they have in QLD

Haha, no unfortunately, but at least it has soil...unlike South Arm, which has bottomless dune sand!

The new place has sandy loam over clay, with a natural hardpan in between, which we've deep ripped for drainage. Holds water very well, and most palms I've put in are doing well, including some Bangalows from NSW. Looking forward to planting these guys out and a forest of maxima's down the track!

This thread has reignited my interest in these palms...would be awesome if they show the purple one day, fingers crossed 🤞

You’ve got a good soil then. I would call that a duplex soil. Archontophoenix should love it because the lower part will hold moisture and nutrient. Beach dune sand would be a constant battle. It would go hydrophobic after about 10 minutes. Perth sand was like that. Constantly feeding it, always using wetting agent. Mulching it every few months only to have it disappear again.

Your new place sounds exciting.

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

You’ve got a good soil then. I would call that a duplex soil. Archontophoenix should love it because the lower part will hold moisture and nutrient. Beach dune sand would be a constant battle. It would go hydrophobic after about 10 minutes. Perth sand was like that. Constantly feeding it, always using wetting agent. Mulching it every few months only to have it disappear again.

Your new place sounds exciting.

Yep, its a Permian mudstone derived duplex. Old, acidic, and leached, like so many Aus soils, but the topsoil has high natural organic matter levels, and seems to respond pretty quickly to added nutrients. Although the hardpan requires a bit of management, it's soooo much better to work with than the hydrophobic nightmare of the South Arm sand.

Back on topic...I was reading Dowe's description of A cunninghamiana last night in Australian Palms, and the purple colouration seems to fall within the species parameters, so I guess this population has been studied at some stage in the past, or there are other populations with similar characteristics maybe?

Dowe also mentions that cunninghamiana extends right up to Mt Elliott at Townsville, so another 250km north of Eungella...another population to explore! Interesting that Livistona australis also tops out at Paluma in the mountains just north of Townsville.

9 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Yep, its a Permian mudstone derived duplex. Old, acidic, and leached, like so many Aus soils, but the topsoil has high natural organic matter levels, and seems to respond pretty quickly to added nutrients. Although the hardpan requires a bit of management, it's soooo much better to work with than the hydrophobic nightmare of the South Arm sand.

Back on topic...I was reading Dowe's description of A cunninghamiana last night in Australian Palms, and the purple colouration seems to fall within the species parameters, so I guess this population has been studied at some stage in the past, or there are other populations with similar characteristics maybe?

Dowe also mentions that cunninghamiana extends right up to Mt Elliott at Townsville, so another 250km north of Eungella...another population to explore! Interesting that Livistona australis also tops out at Paluma in the mountains just north of Townsville.

Very interesting what Dowe says. How this form escaped from widespread cultivation I don’t know.

Yeah, I used to think Eungella was the furthest northern Bangalow population but recently I found that Mt Elliott had them and that is the northern most limit. I wanted to check that area out but we just ran out of time in Townsville. It’s not an easy climb either. About 12hrs one way and the track now goes through private land meaning it’s more than just a “let’s have a quick look” type of place. It’s also the place where the stepped trunk version of alexandrae comes from. I think it’s been called Archontophoenix alexandrae var beatricea. I think for Archontophoenix the real jewels are up in the clouds at altitude.

We went to the town of Paluma for a quick look and it’s at 1000m asl. It was 27C on the coastal plain and 18C when we got up there. Lots of Calamus australis and moti, and the first place we’ve found Laccospadix australasica and in large amounts. Beautiful place up there. We didn’t find any Livistonas up there but we were likely on the wrong track for them. Paluma roughly marks the start of the Wet Tropics. After that you’re in Licuala territory.

On 8/14/2026 at 7:48 PM, aabell said:

Very interesting and beautiful palms, thanks for sharing. Mt Dalrymple is close to Eungella which is known as the northernmost population of A. cunninghamiana. Bangalows also would be more likely to have this coloration than alexandrae, I think. I wonder if they might be hybrids. I would love to see more in depth study of the genus, clearly there is a lot of variability within especially A. cunninghamiana.

Archontophoenix readily hybridize IMO. Ive grown A. Purpurea from seed up to two generations here in Florida. The true, pure A. purpurea doesn't grow here in South FL...too hot. However, I've planted crosses which do grow here. Likely A. purpurea x alexandrae.

True A. purpurea has a lot of white on undersides of leaflets..

JD

22 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Very interesting what Dowe says. How this form escaped from widespread cultivation I don’t know.

Yeah, I used to think Eungella was the furthest northern Bangalow population but recently I found that Mt Elliott had them and that is the northern most limit. I wanted to check that area out but we just ran out of time in Townsville. It’s not an easy climb either. About 12hrs one way and the track now goes through private land meaning it’s more than just a “let’s have a quick look” type of place. It’s also the place where the stepped trunk version of alexandrae comes from. I think it’s been called Archontophoenix alexandrae var beatricea. I think for Archontophoenix the real jewels are up in the clouds at altitude.

We went to the town of Paluma for a quick look and it’s at 1000m asl. It was 27C on the coastal plain and 18C when we got up there. Lots of Calamus australis and moti, and the first place we’ve found Laccospadix australasica and in large amounts. Beautiful place up there. We didn’t find any Livistonas up there but we were likely on the wrong track for them. Paluma roughly marks the start of the Wet Tropics. After that you’re in Licuala territory.

Interesting it’s said it escaped from cultivation, thuu oy a iscthe one fear I have with any of my archontophoenix species, cross contamination with the local population of Bangalows in my area sooner or later. With it known in my area that archontophoenix have moved habitat from birds ( blueberry's farms attracting birds) expanding their habitat. So what will happen in the years to come when my archontophoenix species set seeds and are dispersed throughout the mountains and valleys. For sure cross pollination is going to happen and the local gene pool will be split up. So it’s a dilemma that needs to be addressed, so do I cut down my Alexander and purpurea, myolensis, tuckeri, it’s a mixed bag of lollies out there!

Again my words probably weren’t chosen right. I don’t know how this palm was overlooked and never entered widespread cultivation is what I should have said.

However what you’ve said Richard is quite correct. If you live in an area where Archontophoenix are wild and you grow a number of non native Archontophoenix in your garden, there is an increased risk of hybridisation and contamination of the wild environment.

23 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Very interesting what Dowe says. How this form escaped from widespread cultivation I don’t know.

Yeah, I used to think Eungella was the furthest northern Bangalow population but recently I found that Mt Elliott had them and that is the northern most limit. I wanted to check that area out but we just ran out of time in Townsville. It’s not an easy climb either. About 12hrs one way and the track now goes through private land meaning it’s more than just a “let’s have a quick look” type of place. It’s also the place where the stepped trunk version of alexandrae comes from. I think it’s been called Archontophoenix alexandrae var beatricea. I think for Archontophoenix the real jewels are up in the clouds at altitude.

We went to the town of Paluma for a quick look and it’s at 1000m asl. It was 27C on the coastal plain and 18C when we got up there. Lots of Calamus australis and moti, and the first place we’ve found Laccospadix australasica and in large amounts. Beautiful place up there. We didn’t find any Livistonas up there but we were likely on the wrong track for them. Paluma roughly marks the start of the Wet Tropics. After that you’re in Licuala territory.

Yeah, it is strange that such a unique variety has been overlooked by growers for so long, maybe just a question of luck...most people who go to Eungella turn left at the top of the hill towards Broken River, rather than right to Mt Dalrymple, so I guess it’s just been off the radar.

We went to Paluma about 20 years ago, but there were some people lost in the bush up there, helicopters and police buzzing round which flipped the kids out, so we didn't stick around long. The Laccospadix though is everywhere up there, fantastic.

Might leave Mt Elliott to people more committed than me by the sounds of it!

15 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Yep, its a Permian mudstone derived duplex. Old, acidic, and leached, like so many Aus soils, but the topsoil has high natural organic matter levels, and seems to respond pretty quickly to added nutrients. Although the hardpan requires a bit of management, it's soooo much better to work with than the hydrophobic nightmare of the South Arm sand.

Back on topic...I was reading Dowe's description of A cunninghamiana last night in Australian Palms, and the purple colouration seems to fall within the species parameters, so I guess this population has been studied at some stage in the past, or there are other populations with similar characteristics maybe?

Dowe also mentions that cunninghamiana extends right up to Mt Elliott at Townsville, so another 250km north of Eungella...another population to explore! Interesting that Livistona australis also tops out at Paluma in the mountains just north of Townsville.

Could you copy Dowe’s description mate? I’ve seen references to it online but not in full detail. I’m mainly interested in whether it mentions the presence of ramenta on the abaxial surface of the leaflets (I couldn’t tell from your pics but it should be pretty clear at the size of your plants if you can get photos of the underside of leaflets) and the fruit and seed size.

2 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Again my words probably weren’t chosen right. I don’t know how this palm was overlooked and never entered widespread cultivation is what I should have said.

However what you’ve said Richard is quite correct. If you live in an area where Archontophoenix are wild and you grow a number of non native Archontophoenix in your garden, there is an increased risk of hybridisation and contamination of the wild environment.

I’d probably defer to those with more experience, but just my 2 cents:

Archontophoenix have been cultivated for generations now, particularly A cunninghamiana and A alexandrae. Although there’s clear evidence that they can hybridise (Albang and reverse and some purpurea hybrids on this forum), my experience is that seed from a specimen in a garden with other Archontophoenix sp will generally stay true to the mother. There are also areas of overlap with the native habitat range of A cunninghamiana and A alexandrae yet natural hybrids are extremely uncommon from what I know. I’d guess Archontophoenix sp are nothing like Chrysalidocarpus sp which almost seem to act functionally dioecious when multiple species exist in the same garden. I’m not sure the risk is huge in Richard’s case for example, but it is something that’s good to be aware of.

I have both A. Cunninghamiana and C. Alexandrae that are mature . They are on opposite sides of my house so no fear with hybridization as far as I can tell. The Alexandrae is large and has flowered but no fruit yet . The Cunninghamiana (x2) has produced copious amounts of fruit . The seeds I sowed have sprouted and , so far , are true to the parent palm. I’m the only one on my street that has Archontophoenix palms . The Purpurae and Maxima are juveniles and planted close to one another . They could hybridize but that will be a while so not worried , they are still small. They were transplants from a friend’s yard who has a lot of Archontophoenix . Harry

8 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Could you copy Dowe’s description mate? I’ve seen references to it online but not in full detail. I’m mainly interested in whether it mentions the presence of ramenta on the abaxial surface of the leaflets (I couldn’t tell from your pics but it should be pretty clear at the size of your plants if you can get photos of the underside of leaflets) and the fruit and seed size

There's no ramenta on the midrib of the pinnae on my palms, at least not yet...I'd have thought they'd have adult leaves by now? Does this mean they're not cunninghamiana??

13 hours ago, Jonathan said:

There's no ramenta on the midrib of the pinnae on my palms, at least not yet...I'd have thought they'd have adult leaves by now? Does this mean they're not cunninghamiana??

Well here’s the thing. If Dowes description is 100% correct, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana has ramenta on the midrib. His description doesn’t say - sometimes absent. So maybe we are looking at an undescribed species due to that one thing, or, it is Archontophoenix cunninghamiana without ramenta. Either way is purely an academic discussion. Probably worth further investigation. It’s pretty cool though.