Is Pseudophoenix decline inevitable?

[MC Silver]

Hey guys!

So lately Pseudophoenix Sargentii has been growing on me and I really want to replace a recently planted pygmy date for P. sargentii. What concerns me though is Pseudophoenix decline. Will my palm eventually get it and succumb to it? Is P. sargentii even still worth growing? Anyways to mitigate the disease? I just want a palm tree that will grow for many, many years. 

[flplantguy]

I was told saltwater drenching the crown stops it, I think there are a few tips.  Full blazing hot sun with excellent air movement, no irrigation water hitting the trunk, peroxide soak, and of course systemic fungicides and proper fertilizer if needed to keep it strong. The disease is slow like the palm, so that helps if your watchful (and it seems you will be). I have one in the front yard getting blasted by sun and it recovered from other issues, but it's slow to do so and that makes it vulnerable.  I say try it and just watch the crown shaft and trunk for issues as it grows, and don't wait to act if you think something is off (but don't overdo it, the people here are a great help with how much is enough), and if you do plant it let us see! It's one of my favorite palms as for many others.

[aztropic]

Doesn't seem to be for plants grown in dryer desert conditions anyways. I've been growing this species in the Arizona desert for 25 years now and have about 20 examples planted throughout my garden. Never seen the decline symptoms here.🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Johnny Palmseed]

16 hours ago, MC Silver said:

Hey guys!

So lately Pseudophoenix Sargentii has been growing on me and I really want to replace a recently planted pygmy date for P. sargentii. What concerns me though is Pseudophoenix decline. Will my palm eventually get it and succumb to it? Is P. sargentii even still worth growing? Anyways to mitigate the disease? I just want a palm tree that will grow for many, many years. 

I have had one for about 20 years now and it still is doing well. It is a solitary palm and gets plenty of sun and airflow. I do not use salt water on it and it does not get irrigation. It is in a calcareous coquina soil with a high pH that many plants can’t tolerate. I use a palm specific fertilizer on it a couple times per year. I would say that it is a great alternative to Roebeleniis since it is self cleaning, has no spines and is slow growing. @Looking Glass is near you in Broward County and has a few. Perhaps he will comment on here.

[TampaBayRay]

Too much water does these in ive found out the hard way leaving them alone is best

Bucs are super drought tolerant, even as seedlings

[Looking Glass]

21 hours ago, MC Silver said:

Hey guys!

So lately Pseudophoenix Sargentii has been growing on me and I really want to replace a recently planted pygmy date for P. sargentii. What concerns me though is Pseudophoenix decline. Will my palm eventually get it and succumb to it? Is P. sargentii even still worth growing? Anyways to mitigate the disease? I just want a palm tree that will grow for many, many years. 

Shedding Light on the Pseudophoenix Decline.  2013:

https://palms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/vol57n1p24_29.pdf

When I was down in The Keys, I’d say 2 out of 3 that I saw exhibited at least Rank 1 symptoms….

Islamorada:

I don’t think it’s necessarily inevitable, but it is prevalent in Florida.   

No one is 100% sure of what causes it.  Perhaps viral, inciting a subsequent slow fungal rot of mature lower crown tissue that worsens over years.  The deepening black rot is the final common pathway to death.   It seems to need moist conditions of occur, and it’s plenty wet/hot here a lot of the year.   I don’t think @aztropic will ever see it due to his dry conditions.  

I have 6 growing here at the house.   It’s just guesswork, but I’ve done the following to see if it will help:

1) Planting in full sun out in the open, to facilitate drying and airflow, while keeping rotting debris out of the crown and leaf bases, and keeping the plant growing as fast as possible.  

2) Idealizing soil conditions with fast draining amendments, and the addition of limestone to keep the pH high/basic.  I’m pretty generous with the fertilizer also.  

3) Since fungal rot seems to play a role, I paint any wounds, and the lower crown right after a newly dropped frond, with daconil/hydrogen peroxide.  I also pour this into the leaf bases.  Since I get about 3+ new fronds per year, I do this about 3x per year.   So far seems to work, with no ill effects.  Someday mine will be too tall to do this.  

Fungal rot kills a lot of palms here that do well in California and other drier areas.  Especially if they are slow growing, like the big dypsis.  Dripping wet 85 degree nights for months on end seem to start the process, and they just can’t outgrow a little rot that starts up.  Other palms can blast right through it, dropping old frond bases before it can take hold. Some slow growers seem more resistant to fungal issues, like the New Caledonia types.   I figure keeping the fronds cycling can’t hurt.  

I’m also trying to preemptively treat the fungal component by keeping junk out of the crown, keeping the crown dry, and ventilated and not letting fungus take hold at the “V” split of the oldest frond, where the decline rot starts.   

Will it work?   I don’t know.  Mine are just juveniles.   But so far so good.  Contrast these with those from The Keys above….

[flplantguy]

I have found similar issues here on my palms that are slow, but less so on my sargentii since I keep it in similar conditions as the happier ones seen. My growth rate is far slower though with cooler nights year round, so watering properly is super important for me to do and I can overdo it.  I need to pull all the succulents and stuff away from its base, so I can make sure it's drying out now that it's had a few summers to sink some deep roots.  If you do irrigate a bubbler is better than a sprayer, but if the area gets dew it may not matter for fungus.  I also spray mine with fungicide if I think I need to but I don't have a program I follow.  I thought the black was similar to sooty mold, but there are some big differences between it and all the other actual known fungi. It washes off if it's superficial too, so I scrubbed mine with peroxide to get rid of anything dark on the crown shaft that first year and it hasn't returned since. There are none near me at all, so it's isolated and I'm hoping that helps keep it safe as it gets bigger.

[MC Silver]

6 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

Shedding Light on the Pseudophoenix Decline.  2013:

https://palms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/vol57n1p24_29.pdf

When I was down in The Keys, I’d say 2 out of 3 that I saw exhibited at least Rank 1 symptoms….

Islamorada:

I don’t think it’s necessarily inevitable, but it is prevalent in Florida.   

No one is 100% sure of what causes it.  Perhaps viral, inciting a subsequent slow fungal rot of mature lower crown tissue that worsens over years.  The deepening black rot is the final common pathway to death.   It seems to need moist conditions of occur, and it’s plenty wet/hot here a lot of the year.   I don’t think @aztropic will ever see it due to his dry conditions.  

I have 6 growing here at the house.   It’s just guesswork, but I’ve done the following to see if it will help:

1) Planting in full sun out in the open, to facilitate drying and airflow, while keeping rotting debris out of the crown and leaf bases, and keeping the plant growing as fast as possible.  

2) Idealizing soil conditions with fast draining amendments, and the addition of limestone to keep the pH high/basic.  I’m pretty generous with the fertilizer also.  

3) Since fungal rot seems to play a role, I paint any wounds, and the lower crown right after a newly dropped frond, with daconil/hydrogen peroxide.  I also pour this into the leaf bases.  Since I get about 3+ new fronds per year, I do this about 3x per year.   So far seems to work, with no ill effects.  Someday mine will be too tall to do this.  

Fungal rot kills a lot of palms here that do well in California and other drier areas.  Especially if they are slow growing, like the big dypsis.  Dripping wet 85 degree nights for months on end seem to start the process, and they just can’t outgrow a little rot that starts up.  Other palms can blast right through it, dropping old frond bases before it can take hold. Some slow growers seem more resistant to fungal issues, like the New Caledonia types.   I figure keeping the fronds cycling can’t hurt.  

I’m also trying to preemptively treat the fungal component by keeping junk out of the crown, keeping the crown dry, and ventilated and not letting fungus take hold at the “V” split of the oldest frond, where the decline rot starts.   

Will it work?   I don’t know.  Mine are just juveniles.   But so far so good.  Contrast these with those from The Keys above….

Thanks for the comments definitely will follow that routine. But man your photos are exactly what convinced me to plant P. sargentii. You have some beautiful specimens!!! How big was it when you planted it and how long ago has that been? I hope mines gets to look as beautiful as yours!! 

[Looking Glass]

41 minutes ago, MC Silver said:

Thanks for the comments definitely will follow that routine. But man your photos are exactly what convinced me to plant P. sargentii. You have some beautiful specimens!!! How big was it when you planted it and how long ago has that been? I hope mines gets to look as beautiful as yours!! 

All the deets and dates are here….  

They are not a hard grow in our area.   I’m sure any you plant will range from good with no care, to excellent with just a little TLC. 

[Looking Glass]

@aztropic do yours ever seed out there in the desert?   

[MC Silver]

35 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

All the deets and dates are here….  

They are not a hard grow in our area.   I’m sure any you plant will range from good with no care, to excellent with just a little TLC. 

You got all that growth in 4 and half years?!?!?! Thats crazy. I was expecting very slow growth. 

[Looking Glass]

2 minutes ago, MC Silver said:

You got all that growth in 4 and half years?!?!?! Thats crazy. I was expecting very slow growth. 

They are slowish, but not super slow here.   When it’s hot, wet, and sunny they move pretty good, then slowdown in the darker, cooler months.   Faster than about half of the other palms I have.   

[MC Silver]

1 hour ago, Looking Glass said:

They are slowish, but not super slow here.   When it’s hot, wet, and sunny they move pretty good, then slowdown in the darker, cooler months.   Faster than about half of the other palms I have.   

Do you have Leucothrinax? How fast does that grow compared to Buccaneer palm? Im planting them in the front of house and want the buccaneer palm to grow to be definitely shorter than leucothrinax. Just wondering so I can work it into my design planning. Thanks!

[aztropic]

2 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

@aztropic do yours ever seed out there in the desert?   

Rarely. It's usually 110F when mine are in flower,so any pollen is already DOA. Only on the rare occasion of a late fall flowering, have any seeds been produced, and then, not in any quantity.🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, MC Silver said:

Do you have Leucothrinax? How fast does that grow compared to Buccaneer palm? Im planting them in the front of house and want the buccaneer palm to grow to be definitely shorter than leucothrinax. Just wondering so I can work it into my design planning. Thanks!

I have two small Leucothrinax.  In a couple years in the ground, they are very, very slow.   Just growing some bigger fronds, without much height gain.   They are much slower than Pseudophoenix Sargentii for me.  

Leucothrinax will stay very shrub-like for many years, while Pseudophoenix gains height and leaves them behind.  The biggest one in my neighborhood has maybe 5 feet of trunk and is probably very old, and is much shorter than the Pseudophoenix with the seeds above.  

[Johnny Palmseed]

8 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

I have two small Leucothrinax.  In a couple years in the ground, they are very, very slow.   Just growing some bigger fronds, without much height gain.   They are much slower than Pseudophoenix Sargentii for me.  

Leucothrinax will stay very shrub-like for many years, while Pseudophoenix gains height and leaves them behind.  The biggest one in my neighborhood has maybe 5 feet of trunk and is probably very old, and is much shorter than the Pseudophoenix with the seeds above.  

I also have both and would generally agree. They are both quite slow but I would rate mine as equally slow. Although my PS is in full sun and my LM is somewhat shaded. If you want the LM to be taller, you will need to start with a larger plant.