Newly Transplanted Sylvester Palms - Help/Advise

[DJF]

Hello:  New to this site as of today and new to having palm trees.  Our Location is Ocala Florida.  We recently purchased two smaller Sylvester Pam tress from a nursery that planted them in our yard.   The trees have been transplanted for 30 days.  The have many brown frons, others laying on the ground.  I have water 2/times per day for the first 2 weeks the every other day.  Are these just going through shock or slowly dying?  The people / nursery we got the from up by Gainesville are refusing any help!      

Should I be watering more or less?  Should I trim off the brown dead frons? Should I build a frame around them to support the frons?

All Help and advise is GREATLY appreciated !!!!  Thank You !!!

[DJF]

Does anyone have any help with my questions?

Thank You

[Harry’s Palms]

The watering sounds about right but depends on the soil they are in . The soil around planted palms should be damp or moist , not soupy wet. The best gauge is the new growth on top . The brown or dead fronds can be removed but only if they are totally brown . I don’t have this particular species but I have other Phoenix palms that I transplanted ( Roebelini , Reclinata) and it takes them a while to settle in . It is odd that the folks you bought them from refuse to help , those couldn’t have been cheap to have installed. There are other members that are in your area that can offer better experience based help but I would just make sure the ground stays damp and keep an eye on the new spears to make sure they are alive. The older fronds will die back , this is normal for newly transplanted palms. The speed at which they recover depends on climate in your area . In Southern California we are getting cool mornings just below 50f so everything is slowing down . Harry

[Merlyn]

@DJF welcome to PalmTalk!  You probably didn't get a reply yesterday because everyone was out in the yard. 

For watering, 2x per day is probably excessive, even on a new transplant.  A daily or every other day deep soak is a good choice in summer.  Every other day or 2x per week deep soak is a good choice for winter.  Too much water can cause root rot problems, but usually drowning the roots just means the palm won't pull in nutrients.  I'd back off the watering to every other day or 2x per week.

• Visible symptoms of too much water can be drooping fronds (like yours), fronds turning pale or otherwise losing color. 
• Visible symptoms of too little water are usually leaf tips turning brown first.

As far as the two palms go, there's always some frond and leaf damage when transplanting.  It's impossible to avoid.  One important thing to know is that palms "eat" the old fronds for nutrients and to power new frond and root growth.  So usually it's better to avoid cutting off old fronds until they are completely dry and dessicated.  Usually a new transplant you'd want to cut off more fronds than they did.  The rule of thumb is if you cut off half the roots (digging it out of the ground) you cut off half the fronds.  In winter that's less of an issue. 

This palm looks mostly "normal" for a recent transplant.  In this palm I'd cut off the two brown fronds indicated with arrows, probably next week.  Just keep an eye on them and lop them off when they are completely brown.  The spear leaf looks good and is probably growing fine.  I'd mark the spear with a sharpie horizontally...if you can do so without stabbing yourself with the thorns.  That way you can easily see if it's growing vertically.

The second palm is more concerning, because it looks like the new spear leaves have all fallen over.  In the picture the new spears look like they are brown and dead.  This is probably from physical damage that the nursery did while pulling it out of the ground, transporting it to your house, and planting it.  New spears are not very tough, and relatively easy to damage. 

Can you post a photo closer in to the center of this palm?  If the spears are just bent over *near* where they enter the crown, it might be just fine...and these fronds are just dead and should be lopped off.  If the *whole crown* is fallen over to the side it might have taken a big hit in transport and snapped the growing point.  I'd also look for any new spears trying to poke out from the center of the fallen ones.  They may be only a few inches tall at this point.

One other thing to be aware of is a fatal disease in Florida called "Lethal Bronzing."  This is killing Sylvesters and Dactylifera all over the state.  I'm not sure if it's prevalent in Gainesville or Ocala area yet.  Around this area at least half of the Sylvesters have died.  Here's a fact sheet on the incurable disease:  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP163  If you see palms looking like this in the neighborhood (or at the nursery where you got the palms) then they are infected and already dead:

[flplantguy]

The nursery refusing any help is odd, and tells me they had an issue or they do not know their plants and just sell them. Its common to have people with little to no skills do the job (speaking from experience here locally), so if the company planted them that could be why they are not answering you. If you planted them yourself though i could somewhat understand, but they should still be able to advise as to how much water, and if they see any issues like we do. I agree with merlyn about them and what to do as well.  I feel like a lot of the fronds will eventually die back, but if they pull through it then by summer it should be looking better.

Welcome to palmtalk! Its also slow due to the time of year i think, if i was travelling or doing things i wouldn't be on here either lol. There are some amazing people here, and knowledge is freely given on care, so dont hesitate to ask questions as you learn your new plants!  Have a look at the search feature here and on google, if you havent yet.  Just type in the word "palmtalk" into a google question (like "fertilizer for palms palmtalk") and the threads with the info pop up there (it can be easier than the site to use).  Its great to find the info about things like lethal bronzing merlyn mentioned, or obscure topics like rare plants, or specific fertilizers and why some are bad to use, etc. The site is a gold mine of good info and great people to guide you, good luck on your new plants!

[DJF]

Thank You To All for the great replies, information, and advise.

I'll post more pics tomorrow.  Currently I'm using "wood skewers" to test the soil moisture.  If the come out feeling somewhat moist I do no water.  Good idea?

 

[DJF]

Good Morning, Please see attached photos of the center of the 2nd tree.  

THANK YOU!

[flplantguy]

Dump peroxide down that crown asap, i think others need to weigh in, but i bet it has crown rot and the spear pulls. It may not survive but getting dead tissue out of the crown is critical.  They are tough plants though so dont give up!

[Merlyn]

@flplantguy I agree, that's a serious case of crown rot.  It may or may not have been caused by transplant, kind of impossible to know for sure.  One thing that can definitely cause crown rot is watering the crown directly with a hose or sprinkler.  So make sure you are watering the root area (i.e. the dirt) and not spraying into the crown.  Palms are fine with rainwater from above, but not always with hose water!  For treatment I'd suggest:

• Lightly pull upwards on the dead brown tissue that used to be the spear leaves.  If it's loose it'll pull right out and is a good way to get all the dead and infected tissue out of there.  Don't yank on it...if it's loose it should pull out fairly easily.
• Squirt regular household hydrogen peroxide into the crown and listen/look for bubbling.  H2O2 is a powerful antifungal (for humans and palms) and can frequently cure infections if they aren't too deep.  If you can see or hear bubbling then that confirms a crown infection.
• If there's a crown infection, treat 2x or 3x per week with hydrogen peroxide (about 4-6oz each time) and follow up in about 2-3 hours with Daconil.  H2O2 is a good antifungal but it leaves behind water.  Daconil is kind of sticky and will stay in there as a surface antifungal.  Keep doing this until you no longer hear/see bubbling with the hydrogen peroxide.

If the spear does pull out, take pictures down the crown and of the part you pulled out, and post them here.  That'll help us figure out how much infection there is. 

The other possibility is that the crown took a huge hit during transplant, and it just broke the growing point.  That happened with me and some tree guys.  They dropped part of a 70' water oak onto a Pindo palm and just snapped off the new fronds.  In about 2 weeks all the newer fronds died and nothing ever grew back.

[DJF]

OK I did try to pull out the brown / dean fronds.  nothing would come loose and I put some good force to it.

I did pour peroxide on and can hear bubbling on the one tree and not the other.  I have not water the trees from the top, only at the base using the shower setter on my hose sprayer.  I would do this twice/day2 @ 8 min each tree for the first two weeks.   then once every other day.  Just checked the soil for moisture with the wood skewers.   (about 11" deep)  the skewer doe feel moist, not wet but I can feel moisture.  I watered yesterday so I'll check again tomorrow.  Should I cut anything off or just leave them be for a bit?

Thank You for all your help & advise !

[Merlyn]

@DJF I'm assuming you can hear bubbling on the one with the brown fronds in the crown, right?  If so I'd get a bottle of Daconil (either premix or concentrate) and use it!  Roughly 1-2oz per dose on the bubbling one should help.  I bought a bottle of Daconil concentrate at the Ace Hardware around the corner from my house.  I'm not sure if Lowes or Home Depot carry it in store, but it's fairly common and fairly cheap.  Other good crown rot treatments are any copper-based fungicide, Mancozeb, and a few others.  Copper is very good too, but you don't want to give it too many doses.  Copper buildup over time can be phytotoxic, i.e. accidentally hurt the plant you are trying to cure!

[DJF]

Yes I could hear it on one tree, not the other.  I'll go get some Daconil this morning, Lowes has it.  I'll start the treatments as you described above.  First the hydrogen peroxide 4-6 ox, the wait 2-3 hours then 1-2 oz of Daconil.  2 -3 times per week.  How many Weeks?

Also do you recommend to cut off any of the dead fallen over Fronds?

[DJF]

Hi, Sorry I know it's Christmas Eve................

So I lopped off all the dead fronds on both trees.  put a few oz of hydrogen peroxide on the one with crown issues.  Bought the Daconil concentrate but not sure how to mix for a palm tree.   Directions not real clear.   

Please let me know how mush per gallon is recommended.   

Merry Christmas and THANK YOU !!!!!

 

[Merlyn]

@DJF cutting off the dead new spears on the one with crown rot is probably a good idea.  With them flopped over they would just block new growth.  It's probably also good the spears didn't pull out, hopefully that means the "bud" (growing point) is still solid.  It occurred to me that 4-6oz of hydrogen peroxide may be a lot more than I typically use...maybe two good sized squirts out of a bottle is what I do.  

For Daconil, I use the concentrate at 4 tsp in 32oz of water.  I don't recall where I got that number.  If you got the premixed "ready to use" just spray it in the crown directly.  A couple of squirts should do...highly scientifically of course! 

[DJF]

Hello,

I've trimmed off the dead fronds.  Trees look much better already.  Checked the soil this morning and barley damp so I'm giving each one 10 min of a mild trickle from the hose.  During that time I do move the hose around the tree base to be even with the water.  As for the treatment and to be clear, I use bit Hydrogen peroxide and daconil every three days or so?

I'll send updated photos.

Thank You so much for your help!.  

[DJF]

Here are the current as of today photos

[Merlyn]

@DJF a couple of times per week on the Daconil and hydrogen peroxide should help.  In the latest photos the new spear on the lower photos also appears brown and dead.  Is that true, or just a photo artifact?  Dead  ew spears on both palms makes me more concerned about Lethal Bronzing as a potential cause.  I would keep treating for the fungus, hopefully they both show new spears poking up in a month or so.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@DJF a couple of times per week on the Daconil and hydrogen peroxide should help.  In the latest photos the new spear on the lower photos also appears brown and dead.  Is that true, or just a photo artifact?  Dead  ew spears on both palms makes me more concerned about Lethal Bronzing as a potential cause.  I would keep treating for the fungus, hopefully they both show new spears poking up in a month or so.

doesn’t LB work bottom up? every palm i’ve seen die of that always starts to quickly lose (brown) lower leaves and the spears are the last to go. 

[DJF]

Yes You are correct, that spear new has turned brown.  If it gets worse I'll cut it off like I did with the others.  I will continue to monitor soil for moisture, treat the tress and pray these babies make it.  I'll send updated photos in another week.   I think that's all I can do for them.

Thank You and wish you a Happy and blessed New Year!  

[Merlyn]

9 hours ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

doesn’t LB work bottom up? every palm i’ve seen die of that always starts to quickly lose (brown) lower leaves and the spears are the last to go. 

Around here the most obvious sign is the lower fronds dying much faster than normal.  Once the lower crown is about 1/2 dead I frequently see dead spears or fallen over spears, or spears that are just sticking up in the air and refusing to open.  This is the closest online photo I could find, you can see the lower crown is dead and the new spears are dead, but there's still a bunch of the middle/upper crown that still looks fairly normal.

@DJF hopefully it's just that the new spears took some damage while in transport and planting.  Hydrogen peroxide and Daconil are never toxic to plants, so you can be sure that you aren't hurting anything with the treatments.  My guess is that you'll lose a couple more lower fronds while the palm is rooting in.  That's totally normal, and don't cut off any more lower fronds until they are pretty much brown and dessicated.  Post some January updates, hopefully they pull through!

[Enrico2025]

Help needed. Highlands county central florida. Transplanted dec 5th. 6 palms total. Under or overwatered?  Looked very health and green. 1/6 is shocking pretty bad.

 

questions?  Recs??  Ty

[DJF]

Good Morning All.  I haven't provided an update in a few weeks. Here are new photos of my two trees.  They seem to be doing pretty good.  I believe the "medicine" has helped a great deal.  Need to stake one as it's growing a bit sideways.  

[TropicsEnjoyer]

@Enrico2025 yours look done for unfortunately 

I would request a refund asap since they were recently planted (only a month ago!)

No fault of yours with those either, they appear to be dying, and probably dead at this point, due to lethal bronzing disease.

[Enrico2025]

35 minutes ago, DJF said:

Good Morning All.  I haven't provided an update in a few weeks. Here are new photos of my two trees.  They seem to be doing pretty good.  I believe the "medicine" has helped a great deal.  Need to stake one as it's growing a bit sideways.  

 

[Enrico2025]

HEY,Can you tell me what is the "Medicine"?

[TropicsEnjoyer]

28 minutes ago, Enrico2025 said:

HEY,Can you tell me what is the "Medicine"?

they used hydrogen peroxide along with some other antifungal I think

but this will not help your trees, they are entirely infected, not suffering from crown rot but rather a bacterial infection throughout the plant.

as i said, seek a refund because your palms are doomed 

[Enrico2025]

Yes, I got that; I got new Palms.