Overwatering my Sylvestris?

[Hammock Jay]

This Sylvester was planted Feb 8 2024 in Cape San Blas Fl at our short term rental. We left in May and just got back a few weeks ago to find that the irrigation had been offline for 2 months from a major storm. Not to mention, the water retention trough around the Sylvester had blown out so who knows how long it may not have been getting sufficient water. All of the palms planted at that same time (Sabals included) were showing brown tips. I fertilized with Sunniland 6-1-8 Palm Fertilizer from the local Ace Hardware and got everything back on the well irrigation set every other day for 60 min/day (10 min on 15 min soak). This is the program the landscaper set when we left in May after watering daily for 3 months. Every landscaper I’ve talked to down here has said “You can’t overwater these things”…mostly because they are planted in predominantly sandy soil. After finding this incredible forum, I’m guessing I can absolutely overwater these things😳 and maybe I should be treating the Sylvester differently than the Sabals (which seem to be thriving)? I started back on this every other day schedule 3 weeks ago and the Sylvester spears seem to have yellowed some from that time. My questions are:

Is this overwatering? Is it from the fertilizer? A combo of both? What is a typical timeline for them to become established?…and finally, what should my schedule be for each of these palms once they’ve been established?

 

The below two are from day of planting and then the canopy unveiling 4 weeks later…

The below is from the day we arrived on Oct 31 and found the system had been off for two months…

The below is from this morning after running current water schedule for the last 3-4 weeks…

Much appreciation to all contributors here!

[Hammock Jay]

For additional reference/info…here is our first Sylvestris planted 9 weeks prior to the above but in our front yard. Much healthier with significantly darker growth. Same watering cycle as above and was also without water for the same 2 month period.

Makes me wonder if the one in question is more of a result of the water retention basin blowing out? We were gone for 6 months so I have no idea as to how long the water wasn’t being directed to the roots but simply running off to the side🤷🏻‍♂️ When I was repairing the breach, there was definitely a significant amount of root growth present, which provides some relief. Maybe the fertilizer burned the new root growth?

IMG_8284.dng

[Merlyn]

@Hammock Jay generally speaking you can't overwater a Sylvestris in sandy Floriduh.  Maybe if the soil is clay or the water table is a few inches down...maybe.  But once established they are fine with minimal extra water too.  I'd guess yours wasn't totally established by the time the irrigation shut off, so you are seeing the palm "kill off" the older lower fronds.  That's normal.

The major issue I'm seeing is a Magnesium (not Manganese) deficiency.  That's causing the yellowed tips on the older and even the newer fronds.  It is a common problem with all Phoenix palms, especially in Florida.  In addition to the 6-1-8 fertilizer (the same one I use) I would add about 2-4 handfuls of Magnesium Sulfate sprinkled around between the boardwalk and concrete.  Repeat in about a month or two.  This won't "fix" the yellow bits, but will help keep the yellow from spreading to the newest fronds.  Once a leaf is yellow it won't turn back green.

A secondary concern long-term is Lethal Bronzing, which is killing Sylvesters and Dactylifera all over Florida.  The pictures don't look like it's infected, but it's hard to judge.  LB has killed about half of the Sylvesters in my vicinity already.

[Hammock Jay]

On 12/11/2024 at 2:29 PM, Merlyn said:

@Hammock Jay generally speaking you can't overwater a Sylvestris in sandy Floriduh.  Maybe if the soil is clay or the water table is a few inches down...maybe.  But once established they are fine with minimal extra water too.  I'd guess yours wasn't totally established by the time the irrigation shut off, so you are seeing the palm "kill off" the older lower fronds.  That's normal.

The major issue I'm seeing is a Magnesium (not Manganese) deficiency.  That's causing the yellowed tips on the older and even the newer fronds.  It is a common problem with all Phoenix palms, especially in Florida.  In addition to the 6-1-8 fertilizer (the same one I use) I would add about 2-4 handfuls of Magnesium Sulfate sprinkled around between the boardwalk and concrete.  Repeat in about a month or two.  This won't "fix" the yellow bits, but will help keep the yellow from spreading to the newest fronds.  Once a leaf is yellow it won't turn back green.

A secondary concern long-term is Lethal Bronzing, which is killing Sylvesters and Dactylifera all over Florida.  The pictures don't look like it's infected, but it's hard to judge.  LB has killed about half of the Sylvesters in my vicinity already.

@Merlyn Thank you! I added the Magnesium Sulfate and will keep an eye on it. The water table does sit about 3 feet down. Do you think I should back off of the every other day watering (bubbler head) because of the time of year and proximity to water table? Or maintain until we start seeing signs of improvement?

[palmofmyhand]

9 minutes ago, Hammock Jay said:

@Merlyn Thank you! I added the Magnesium Sulfate and will keep an eye on it. The water table does sit about 3 feet down. Do you think I should back off of the every other day watering (bubbler head) because of the time of year and proximity to water table? Or maintain until we start seeing signs of improvement?

I’m no expert as I only recently planted 4 small ones in my yard back in early spring and I didn’t water them very often at all, not even once a week I mostly relied on rain water to keep them hydrated, but it is slightly different for me because I have clay soil around the original soil that they came with. With the infrequent waterings they seemed to do very well even through the hot summer and I’m no expert but they are drought tolerant palms so I personally would rather give them less water than too much and you can always just water them and check the soil with your fingers to see if it is moist still.

[palmofmyhand]

3 minutes ago, palmofmyhand said:

I’m no expert as I only recently planted 4 small ones in my yard back in early spring and I didn’t water them very often at all, not even once a week I mostly relied on rain water to keep them hydrated, but it is slightly different for me because I have clay soil around the original soil that they came with. With the infrequent waterings they seemed to do very well even through the hot summer and I’m no expert but they are drought tolerant palms so I personally would rather give them less water than too much and you can always just water them and check the soil with your fingers to see if it is moist still.

and to be real honest I didn’t even water them more than like 5 times since late march and I don’t water them at all anymore just use rain, even though I barely watered them they all had lots of new growth especially after the transplant shock where all the older fronds died off.

[palmofmyhand]

23 minutes ago, palmofmyhand said:

and to be real honest I didn’t even water them more than like 5 times since late march and I don’t water them at all anymore just use rain, even though I barely watered them they all had lots of new growth especially after the transplant shock where all the older fronds died off.

this is how mine looked mid november before taking freeze damage 

[SeanK]

Is it really necessary to water over the winter?

[Merlyn]

@SeanK and @Hammock Jay normally I'd say not necessary, but it was only planted in February and likely hasn't grown roots deep enough to hit the water table yet.  In the panhandle it's gotten fairly cold already, so maybe twice a week seems reasonable.  Which reminds me...I need to go out and switch my irrigation to every other day instead of daily.

It occurred to me that the visible yellowing could also be potassium deficiency too.  The 6-1-8 fertilizer should help with that, if it's one of the problems.  Here's my notes on the visible symptoms:

• Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Caryota and Arenga get random splotched dead spots in leaves. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving upwards
• Magnesium - Yellow ends on oldest leaves first, transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Does not cause leaf tip necrosis until really severe.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

My sylvester only gets sprinkler water twice a week and whatever rain that happens. They really only need frequent water during the first month establishment period. Also @palmofmyhandwhat a sunset!

[Merlyn]

@TropicsEnjoyer the normal recommendation here is to not fertilize a new planting for 1-3 months.  I'll guarantee that no palm of any size will be past the "establishment period" in 1 month.  I've planted palms from 7g to 15g pots and 2-3 months later decided it was a horrible planting spot.  When I went to dig them back out the root ball is still pot-shaped with minimal new white roots growing out into the surrounding soil.  Big palms will grow new roots faster, but there's a reason they stake tall Phoenix for 3-6 months after planting.