HARDIEST date palm and/or feather palm

[COpalms]

From what youve heard or from personal experience what is the HARDIEST date palm and/or feather palm. (preferably date palm)

[SeanK]

CIDP

[DTS]

Dactylifera and Canariesis seem to be pretty hardy

[Xerarch]

P. canariensis is a little less leaf hardy than P dactylifera, but seems to have better survivability in really bad freezes.  I've seen that play out in both wet and dry climates.  The only other real contender in the Phoenix genus is P theophrasti, which is said to be at least as hardy as P dacty, some say hardier.  But I have no personal experience observing it in a freeze and they are not very common.

[Chester B]

Phoenix canariensis.  

Hardiest feather palm is Jubaea chilensis or Butia odorata depending on your location.

[MarcusH]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Phoenix Silvestri. From my research on here I read mixed comments about hardiness. Some say they can tolerate cold more than Dactylifera while others didn't make the same experience.  I would say Silvestri share the same cold hardiness as Dactylifera . They also recover a lot faster. But CIDP is the true leader here. 

[ahosey01]

29 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Phoenix Silvestri. From my research on here I read mixed comments about hardiness. Some say they can tolerate cold more than Dactylifera while others didn't make the same experience.  I would say Silvestri share the same cold hardiness as Dactylifera . They also recover a lot faster. But CIDP is the true leader here. 

I this is particularly true in humid climates.  In dry climates I don't even know anyone that really grows sylvestris, which is a bummer.  Less disease prone there and they're beautiful palms.

[ahosey01]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:43 PM, Xerarch said:

P. canariensis is a little less leaf hardy than P dactylifera, but seems to have better survivability in really bad freezes.  I've seen that play out in both wet and dry climates.  The only other real contender in the Phoenix genus is P theophrasti, which is said to be at least as hardy as P dacty, some say hardier.  But I have no personal experience observing it in a freeze and they are not very common.

I have a theophrasti x reclinata cross because a.) ER visits are fun when trimming and b.) if Brownsville ever hits -50F it will come back from the roots.  You're spot on here.

[mnorell]

I saw a Phoenix canariensis that had recovered in Sicily Island, Central Louisiana, after being hit with what must have been some really, really cold temps. I was shocked! Meanwhile i lost every Phoenix I tried in much-warmer Natchez, Mississippi: P. sylvestris 'Robusta' (sold to me under that name) was a fast grower and I got a couple of really beautiful specimens that developed pretty tall trunks...but ultimately they croaked in the teens. I grew a couple of P. theophrastii and they were not only the most horrifically spiny and dangerous Phoenix I've experienced (made the treacherous P. sylvestris look "cozy" by comparison!), both specimens died from cold, with temps just in the upper teens. They definitely seem to be far less cold-hardy (in a wet climate) than often advertised. I didn't grow any P. dactylifera there, so I can't speak to their hardiness relative to the others...but I am quite in agreement with the above opinions, that the hardiest one east of the Divide is likely P. canariensis.

[edbrown_III]

in 1985 Jax had 7°F at airport , 5° F Westside and about 12°F at my house 

 

1983 we had 11°F at the airport 

 

Phoenix dactylifera , P.  canariensis , and P. Sylvestris  survived ---- P. reclinata/ hybride -- survived at my house but was killed to the ground.

 

1985 we not only had a deep freeze but gail force winds --- reminded me of VA weather in winter.

 

some Livistona chinensis (some ) survived around town .   My Arenga engleri and Rhapis excelsa survived but were killed to the ground ----- same with Paurotis palms in some ST Jose Neighborhoods 

[ryjohn]

On 11/15/2024 at 12:21 AM, mnorell said:

I saw a Phoenix canariensis that had recovered in Sicily Island, Central Louisiana, after being hit with what must have been some really, really cold temps. I was shocked! Meanwhile i lost every Phoenix I tried in much-warmer Natchez, Mississippi: P. sylvestris 'Robusta' (sold to me under that name) was a fast grower and I got a couple of really beautiful specimens that developed pretty tall trunks...but ultimately they croaked in the teens. I grew a couple of P. theophrastii and they were not only the most horrifically spiny and dangerous Phoenix I've experienced (made the treacherous P. sylvestris look "cozy" by comparison!), both specimens died from cold, with temps just in the upper teens. They definitely seem to be far less cold-hardy (in a wet climate) than often advertised. I didn't grow any P. dactylifera there, so I can't speak to their hardiness relative to the others...but I am quite in agreement with the above opinions, that the hardiest one east of the Divide is likely P. canariensis.

I’m up the road from you in Sterlington, LA, and my experience is similar except all Phoenix tolerated low teens and even high single digits here without dying most years, although defoliation always occurred in the high teens.  There is definitely something to the benefits of hardening off that I see up here (no crazy mid-winter warm spells like down by you).  But those benefits only hold if we don’t have a daytime high temps below freezing, which is most years but not all.  Satsumas do fantastically up here for the same reason.  I’ve driven by those long-suffering Sicily Island, central Louisiana CIDP’s a few times a year now for 2 decades, and my Phoenix 75 miles north of there always looked and did far better.  Large transplants never regain full vigor and they never irrigated from what I could see.  One of the two is as near death as is possible.

[Michel Kerger]

On 11/13/2024 at 1:43 AM, Xerarch said:

P. canariensis is a little less leaf hardy than P dactylifera, but seems to have better survivability in really bad freezes.  I've seen that play out in both wet and dry climates.  The only other real contender in the Phoenix genus is P theophrasti, which is said to be at least as hardy as P dacty, some say hardier.  But I have no personal experience observing it in a freeze and they are not very common.

It has recently been documented that there’s a subspecies of P. Theophrasti called P. T. Epidaurus that lives on mainland Greece in a few scattered places, Epidavros being one of them. This would make it the farthest north any native P. palm is growing. When I’m in the region I will certainly try to get some seeds from these wonders. Currently growing two nice P. T. from tiny ones I brought back from Crete. 

[TropicsEnjoyer]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:46 PM, ahosey01 said:

I have a theophrasti x reclinata cross because a.) ER visits are fun when trimming and b.) if Brownsville ever hits -50F it will come back from the roots.  You're spot on here.

i need to see this hybrid, sounds vicious but also very cool

[ahosey01]

20 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

i need to see this hybrid, sounds vicious but also very cool

Currently it is like 7 strap leafs but will post pics as it matures.

I believe I have 20 different Phoenix species / crosses in my garden.  Have to do the math again.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

@ahosey01ohhh ok it’s a young plant still

wish i could say the same about my collection, so far i have like 14 dacty and 4 sylvester along with a quad pygmy date which is my oldest

my dactys are starting to get divided straps tho!!

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

@ahosey01ohhh ok it’s a young plant still

wish i could say the same about my collection, so far i have like 14 dacty and 4 sylvester along with a quad pygmy date which is my oldest

my dactys are starting to get divided straps tho!!

I think my list, if I can remember, is:

Phoenix:

-> roebelenii

-> roebelenii subspecies from Laos that suckers naturally

-> roebelenii x sylvestris

-> roebelenii x (canariensis x acaulis)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x dactylifera)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x reclinata)

-> reclinata (allegedly pure)

-> sylvestris

-> roebelenii x rupicola

-> roebelenii x dactylifera

-> theophrasti x reclinata

-> paludosa x something (not sure what)

-> some weird unknown hybrid with deep green leaves with a papery texture

-> acaulis

-> rupicola (pure)

I think that's it.  So not quite 20.

[Chester B]

Just now, ahosey01 said:

I think my list, if I can remember, is:

Phoenix:

-> roebelenii

-> roebelenii subspecies from Laos that suckers naturally

-> roebelenii x sylvestris

-> roebelenii x (canariensis x acaulis)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x dactylifera)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x reclinata)

-> reclinata (allegedly pure)

-> sylvestris

-> roebelenii x rupicola

-> roebelenii x dactylifera

-> theophrasti x reclinata

-> paludosa x something (not sure what)

-> some weird unknown hybrid with deep green leaves with a papery texture

-> acaulis

-> rupicola (pure)

I think that's it.  So not quite 20.

I hope you have welding PPE to trim your palms!  I saw my old neighbor removing a blackberry patch with that equipment - highly effective.

[Ben G.]

I really like a lot of the Phoenix species, but I admit that I am partial to non-suckering species for the home landscape. I would love to get my hands on a canariensis x sylvestris hybrid (or sylvestris x canariensis) if the opportunity ever arose.

I like thinner trunks and greener foliage for more tropical appearances. So, mixing these two would be a great mix in my book.

[ahosey01]

29 minutes ago, Ben G. said:

I really like a lot of the Phoenix species, but I admit that I am partial to non-suckering species for the home landscape. I would love to get my hands on a canariensis x sylvestris hybrid (or sylvestris x canariensis) if the opportunity ever arose.

I like thinner trunks and greener foliage for more tropical appearances. So, mixing these two would be a great mix in my book.

I think this cross would be cool but begs to die from some kind of disease here in Texas.  You'd want to drown it in imidacloprid and OTC to keep it alive once it had a trunk.  Could be done, though.  Just a fair amount of maintenance.

I have a sylvestris which I intend to keep pumped full of OTC as it gets bigger but I'm not willing to do that for more than one or two palms.

[ahosey01]

51 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I hope you have welding PPE to trim your palms!  I saw my old neighbor removing a blackberry patch with that equipment - highly effective.

I actually just wear medieval chain mail while I trim. 

[JeskiM]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

I actually just wear medieval chain mail while I trim. 

I'd like to see a pic. of that !

-Matt

[TropicsEnjoyer]

6 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

I think my list, if I can remember, is:

Phoenix:

-> roebelenii

-> roebelenii subspecies from Laos that suckers naturally

-> roebelenii x sylvestris

-> roebelenii x (canariensis x acaulis)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x dactylifera)

-> roebelenii x (roebelenii x reclinata)

-> reclinata (allegedly pure)

-> sylvestris

-> roebelenii x rupicola

-> roebelenii x dactylifera

-> theophrasti x reclinata

-> paludosa x something (not sure what)

-> some weird unknown hybrid with deep green leaves with a papery texture

-> acaulis

-> rupicola (pure)

I think that's it.  So not quite 20.

shouldn’t have asked because now i want it all haha

suckering roeb is cool, too bad they’re not common

my biggest flex is a healthy sylvester which i dare say is one of the healthiest ones in my area, but otherwise the only other phoenix i wish for is a reclinata

[ahosey01]

9 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

shouldn’t have asked because now i want it all haha

suckering roeb is cool, too bad they’re not common

my biggest flex is a healthy sylvester which i dare say is one of the healthiest ones in my area, but otherwise the only other phoenix i wish for is a reclinata

Corey Bigler down in St. James City has them for like $35 for a three gallon I think.  Google search his name and like "palms" or something and you'll find his business.  I forget the name of his company.  He also does mail order.  Also @kinzyjr finds all kinds of Phoenix seeds in his neck of the woods.

[8B palms]

Chamedorea radicalis is a good contender also for tough feather palm