What is going on with my windmill?

[NC_Palms]

I had this windmill palm in the ground for about two years, it gets root rot on a nearly annual basis and spear pulls so I often have to cut the trunk down, but now it is late in the season and the fronds are starting to yellow and fold in? Anyone know what this could be about? I’m thinking of just repotting it since the soil is absolutely atrocious and nearly 100% clay 

 

Also the spear is pretty secure and will not pull

[MJSanDiego]

How much water is this getting on average? Clay is poor draining and I assume the lack of proper drainage with possible overwatering is the cause of the root rot which can also cause many other issues such as yellowing fronds. I would say amend your clay soil further down and out if you want to keep it in the ground 

[Chester B]

I'd say there is generally two causes for the folding of the fronds:

1) Need water, they will close up when drought stressed

2) Problems with the roots, which you have experienced before.

As far as soil, clay is the preferred soil.  They don't mind having poorly draining soil and have no issues with waterlogged soils.  However, I don't know how they do with hot waterlogged soils.  These are from cooler temperate areas and do best in that sort of climate.

[MJSanDiego]

It is incorrect that Windmill palms prefer clay soil. Many palms can grow and adapt to any soil, including clay. All of my palms are growing in clay soil including Syagrus Romanzoffiana, Phoenix Roebellini and Wodyetia bifurcata. But to claim that clay soil is the preferred soil for Windmill palms is not true. And regardless of the soil type, Windmill palms do not like to sit in waterlogged soils

[NC_Palms]

@MJSanDiego The problem I had was my area (Eastern NC) was in a drought for the first half of the summer, and into July and August we had weeks of endless rain, which I am believing caused stress onto many of my plants. The soil here is pure clay, which is not usually normal for the coastal plain of NC, but this property was recently built and all the typical coastal soils were removed. This has been a struggle, as many plants I used to grow will easily rot here. 

@Chester B I have always said that there are much better (cold hardy) palms for the coastal South simply due to the sandy soil and hot climate. I am thinking of repotting it into basic soil tomorrow and letting it regrow under more of a controlled environment to see if it comes back, then replanting it in a few months 

 

 

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, MJSanDiego said:

But to claim that clay soil is the preferred soil for Windmill palms is not true. And regardless of the soil type, Windmill palms do not like to sit in waterlogged soils

That is the general consensus for growers in the PNW,  and many other areas so I have to disagree.   You will find countless posts on here in reference to a Trachy's love of clay soil.  Years of my own experience as well as fellow palm growers have confirmed this.  Even the one palm farm by me had their seed producing Waggies that sat in standing water in spring for extended periods of time due to a high water table.  In summer the water was just below the surface and he stated they loved it when I asked him about it.  Would I plant a Trachy in an area where I knew it would be waterlogged the majority of the time, I would not.  However they can handle seasonal flooding without issue.

Agree to disagree.

[Harry’s Palms]

Trachycarpus seem to do well in pots in cooler , wet environments. I gifted my sister in Humboldt a Windmill palm for her deck next to a Redwood forest . She is a very good gardener and grew some amazing flowers and various plants in her wet garden . She kept the palm in a pot on her deck for years and it always looked great when I visited. She used a potting soil with a rather sandy loam . The consistently rainy weather didn’t seem to bother it nor the occasional snow . Harry

[MJSanDiego]

@Chester B Prefers clay? We are not talking about highly variable individual growing experiences. There is absolutely no proof that Windmill palms prefer clay and it's certainly not its native habitat whatsoever. Can it grow in clay? Absolutely. But prefer?  How can you make such a claim? It's just not factual

[Chester B]

8 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

@Chester B Prefers clay? We are not talking about highly variable individual growing experiences. There is absolutely no proof that Windmill palms prefer clay and it's certainly not its native habitat whatsoever. Can it grow in clay? Absolutely. But prefer?  How can you make such a claim? It's just not factual

If you do a search on here you will find countless posts from unique authors stating the how well they do in clay.

I have grown them in both sandy and clay soil,  same property.  There is a marked difference, with the clay grown specimens being more robust, darker green and tend to hold on to more fronds.   Sample size 36 individuals.  From having observed hundreds of fortunei over the years these are my conclusions, as well as many fellow gardeners that I know.

Has there been a peer reviewed scientific study published - not to my knowledge.  So if you want, you can consider the observations to be anecdotal, but its not from a single person's claim.  Ie Me.

Like I said - Agree to disagreee

[MJSanDiego]

13 hours ago, Chester B said:

If you do a search on here you will find countless posts from unique authors stating the how well they do in clay.

I have grown them in both sandy and clay soil,  same property.  There is a marked difference, with the clay grown specimens being more robust, darker green and tend to hold on to more fronds.   Sample size 36 individuals.  From having observed hundreds of fortunei over the years these are my conclusions, as well as many fellow gardeners that I know.

Has there been a peer reviewed scientific study published - not to my knowledge.  So if you want, you can consider the observations to be anecdotal, but its not from a single person's claim.  Ie Me.

Like I said - Agree to disagreee

Well this applies to many species. Clay is a dense nutrient rich soil that holds water so many palms appreciate it. Sand is lacking in nutrients and dries out quickly. So you need more attentuon to supplemental water and fertilizer with sandy soil. All of my palms are in clay soil. So it is no surprise to me that the palms grown in clay can be more robust and green. But I wouldn't state that all of my palm species prefer clay. Someone might be able to grow nicer looking specimens in sandy loam with the right attention and environment 

[palmnut-fry]

I planted a 2 trunked Windmill right b4 catastrophic deep freezes on west side of house where it is flanked by seasonal subshrubs and perennial groundcovers. We had another deep freeze and then the one this year in Jan killed the one stem. 

The surviving stem looks pathetic but is pushing out several leaves, as ugly as they are. I cannot believe how poorly it did but the weather has been a bitch.

Oh and i lost one on other side of house where the soil is a good loamy clay that is common here in N. Tex, grows some nice ones in area. High ph too...

[NC_Palms]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:19 AM, MJSanDiego said:

@Chester B Prefers clay? We are not talking about highly variable individual growing experiences. There is absolutely no proof that Windmill palms prefer clay and it's certainly not its native habitat whatsoever. Can it grow in clay? Absolutely. But prefer?  How can you make such a claim? It's just not factual

I think the overall claim that these palms prefer clay over sand comes from the South specifically. Since it’s well known that these palms do better in piedmont cities like Raleigh and Atlanta compared to the coast. In my state of NC, the ones in Raleigh and even towards the mountains look better than here, but nevertheless still commonly planted palm. 

[NC_Palms]

Anyways, decided to transplant my windmill to a pot with rich soil and trim off some of the leaves and then move to a sunnier spot. This is what I typically do for plants that get root rot, so i’m optimistic this will help 

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

Anyways, decided to transplant my windmill to a pot with rich soil and trim off some of the leaves and then move to a sunnier spot. This is what I typically do for plants that get root rot, so i’m optimistic this will help 

I did the same after one of mine struggled thru it's first winter. I'm allowing it to size up for round two. Good luck with your palm.

[SeanK]

5 hours ago, palmnut-fry said:

I planted a 2 trunked Windmill right b4 catastrophic deep freezes on west side of house where it is flanked by seasonal subshrubs and perennial groundcovers. We had another deep freeze and then the one this year in Jan killed the one stem. 

The surviving stem looks pathetic but is pushing out several leaves, as ugly as they are. I cannot believe how poorly it did but the weather has been a bitch.

Oh and i lost one on other side of house where the soil is a good loamy clay that is common here in N. Tex, grows some nice ones in area. High ph too...

So, what's your point?

[NC_Palms]

It’s been a few weeks and this palm is still alive, and I think it’s continuing to grow.

 

I am lost tho, since the new growth is still folded together, and isn’t growing like a typical palm leaf. Is anyone familiar with this?

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

The plant has clearly been stressed and by transplanting it, you actually added more stress. It’s not going to start growing well again until it stops being stressed. Typically when you make any change to growing conditions, it will take some time for the plant to adapt to the new conditions. And if the change is too drastic, it will stop growing, grow poorly or possibly die. Soil conditions are difficult to optimize but generally speaking, in ground palms prefer free draining soil but some palms can tolerate poor drainage. You describe your soil as absolutely atrocious but have you ever had it tested? It might not be as bad as you think. I have no experience with clay soil or windmill palms but I would suspect that poor drainage combined with excessive rain caused a root rot situation. Combined with summer heat and I think this young palm struggled.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Could it be rain coming off the roof was saturating the crown and roots?

[Allen]

For the OP sun shining off a white fence can reflect and overheat/burn the palm.  White is used as a reflector and can affect plants depending on sun angle.  https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t5267-what-to-do-with-hot-vinyl-fence

As far as clay - Here is my Trachy planted 2 years ago in clay.  Actually now it has over 2 feet of trunk.  All my palms are planted in clay and are very robust.   All 60+ palms I have here are in pure clay and I don't amend any holes or dig holes any bigger than the rootball.  I shake off any loose potting soil before planting. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkyqsUtIFk

Here is how it was planted showing soil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsA2NEmK1Rg

Here is another Trachy in pure clay 2 years from losing almost all fronds in winter

[NC_Palms]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:22 AM, Johnny Palmseed said:

The plant has clearly been stressed and by transplanting it, you actually added more stress. It’s not going to start growing well again until it stops being stressed. Typically when you make any change to growing conditions, it will take some time for the plant to adapt to the new conditions. And if the change is too drastic, it will stop growing, grow poorly or possibly die. Soil conditions are difficult to optimize but generally speaking, in ground palms prefer free draining soil but some palms can tolerate poor drainage. You describe your soil as absolutely atrocious but have you ever had it tested? It might not be as bad as you think. I have no experience with clay soil or windmill palms but I would suspect that poor drainage combined with excessive rain caused a root rot situation. Combined with summer heat and I think this young palm struggled.

Yes this is what I expected. I will let it go and see how it does.