Most elegant Pritchardia?

[Kim]

A good friend has asked me to recommend a fan palm for her garden.  She is 1/2 block from the ocean, and the location will get a lot of sun -- or as much sun as you can get in Ocean Beach, California.  Initially I was thinking Brahea calcarea aka nitida, but they are really slow growers.  Having seen numerous photos of Pritchardia recently,  they seem an inspired choice.  I'm thinking lush green, large elegant fans.  Which species?

Experts?  What do you recommend?  Pritchardia  or other?  (NO WASHIES!)

[BigFrond]

I would say it is between beccariana and hillebrandii.  Both have very nice, large leaves.  I have the affinis too but it will have to take a back seat to the other two.

[spockvr6]

I personally like P. pacifica the best, but understand they are pretty much the wimps of the genus when it comes to cold.

[Matt in SD]

My Pritchardia list would go as follows:

P viscosa (impossible to get)

P martii

P beccariana

P sp. 'lanai' (not lanaiensis)

P minor

Then a tie between the others

My bias is towards big, round, flat leaves and color on the leaf undersides.  

There are some others that are nice (eriostachys, aylmer robinsonii etc...) but it's hard to know exactly what you're getting and I'm not sure the plants I've seen labeled as such are really what they say.  And there are some that I just don't know too much about (lanigera, shattaueri...)  I have high hopes for P glabrata but mine are too small to know and I've never seen mature one.  Jerry Andersen has a forbesiana that is pretty nice and I think he has seedlings from his tree so you know exactly what you're getting at least.

So if she wants a taller, larger palms, then beccariana is great.  P martii is shorter, and a bit smaller, but has the brownish leaf undersides which I think are cool looking.

Matt

[elHoagie]

I would probably just get whatever Pritchardia you can find the best deal on.  They're all so similar, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on the subtle differences if your friend isn't a collector...

Also, I think Pritchardia is a great palm for the location.  They like sun, look lush, and grow reasonably fast.

[MattyB]

I agree with Matt; martii for small, beccarriana for big, (viscosa for jail).

[Matt in SD]

I agree with Matt for agreeing with me.

I disgree with Jack...sort of.  There are a bunch of Pritchardias that look the same.  There are also tons going around with incorrect names, leading people to think more look the same than really look the same.  But beccariana, martii and viscosa are definitely not like the others.  I also remembered that Pritchardia sp. lanai is now lumped with martii (but they leaf coloration and leaf shape is different).

Matt

[Don Little]

(spockvr6 @ Nov. 14 2007,12:24)

QUOTE

I personally like P. pacifica the best, but understand they are pretty much the wimps of the genus when it comes to cold.

Your right Larry, P pacifica and P thurstonii are tops in my book, problem is they would never survive here for long in the ground here unfortunately.

As far as the others, I would go with martii or hillebrandii especially dwarf blue if you can find it.

[JEFF from Trabuco Canyon CA]

My vote would be Pritchardia beccariana!

[elHoagie]

(Matt in SD @ Nov. 14 2007,16:36)

QUOTE

I disgree with Jack...sort of.

You Matts in San Diego are all the same.  You think you're so damn superior because you can tell the difference between Pritchardias :D

[epicure3]

I persnally like the affinis even though the beccariana has larger leaves.

Both Pacifica and Thurstonii probably won't make it anywhere in SoCal.

Now.........that wouldn't keep me from trying, mind you.

After my adonidia 'golden form' croaks this coming winter (that glass is 3/4 empty), I might be tempted.

[ruskinPalms]

I know you guys already said that thurstonii won't make it in socal, but this is definitely my favorite. I love its seed presentation, much showier than pacifica in my opinion. Probably a little smaller overall though. I have not seen many of the species mentioned, however, so I may like some of these even more.

[DoomsDave]

My personal favorite is hillebrandtiii.  Yeah, it's the most common, but it's got that great white fuzz on the new leaves that gives it that elegant look.

Or, lanaiensis for a shorter one, without the fuzz.

dave

[PalmGuyWC]

Your all sounding like a  bunch of palm collectors. If the lady just wants a fan palm, why a Parchardia which would probably be expensive, and you might not even know what your getting? There are lots of other fan palms which would be more available, larger specimans and cheaper, and might even grow better. A palm doesn't have to be rare to make a statement.

Dick

[Phil]

Kim,

I agree that Pritchardia is an ideal choice for her locality.  I've had various species in my yard for 25 years and they've never suffered and look great.  Choose a Hawaiian species and let predicted size be a determinant of your choice.  Also, if there's a possibility of the plant eventually being shaded out by adjacent plantings, Pritchardia tolerate partial sun quite well.

Phil

[Kim]

(PalmGuyWC @ Nov. 15 2007,04:47)

QUOTE

Your all sounding like a  bunch of palm collectors. If the lady just wants a fan palm, why a Parchardia which would probably be expensive, and you might not even know what your getting? There are lots of other fan palms which would be more available, larger specimans and cheaper, and might even grow better. A palm doesn't have to be rare to make a statement.

Dick

Care to make a suggestion?  I'm open to other ideas...

But I am beginning to infect her with the palm bug.   And she recently built a special display area in her yard for all the bromeliads I've given her (another plant disease). :cool:

[MattyB]

John, here's P. affinis.  Is this the same palm you're talking about?  I think they look like a raggedy brahea.  Definately not one of my favs.  There are so many other prettier ones in my opinion.

[mike in kurtistown]

Here's a photo of a couple of beccarianas in a local arboretum (bizzie in back).

[mike in kurtistown]

leaf detail on one of them:

[Wai`anae Steve]

I'm not sure why people think of Martii as a small palm.

Ok, if you see one growing on a 45 degree slope at the top of the Ko`olau Range it is short.

But if you go into many of the valleys on the Windward Coast of O`ahu you can find tall ones.  Look close and you can just about make out a human standing at the base of this Martii.

Most of the valley Martii's are shorter than this but age has a lot to do w/it.

Here is one of somewhat tall plants on the Ko`olau Summit where the ground is a little more level.

[mike in kurtistown]

Some palms (Roystonea, Clinostigma) look good when tall. Others (Pritchardia, many Carribean genera) may look better (pers. opinion) when they are small. Here's an image of a pair of martiis at McBryde Garden on Kauai.

[mike in kurtistown]

The previous pic showed the marked bronze color of the undersides of the leaves. This overhead doesn't show it.

[Al in Kona]

Isn't P. martii a bit variable depending on what valley or elevation it is found in the ko`olau range on O`ahu?  Earlier they even had different species names but have since been grouped together as one species, P. martii.

[MattyB]

Found another pic of P. affinis I took in Kona, HI.  These things are just wierd.  It looks like they never fully opened their leaves.  Grow damn you, grooooowwww!!!!! ???

[Wai`anae Steve]

Al,

 I think you've put words to my pictures.

  If given deep soil and room to spread it's roots as well as lots of rain the P. martii will grow like a champ.

  I'd bet may others palms would react the same.

  I know many of my so called "rainforest" palms are growing nice, but a lot shorter and thinner of trunk here in my desert.

[Matt in SD]

Matt,

The affinis I agree the affinis I've seen on the big island look weird, like the leaves are only part way open.  But mine looks pretty nice, and I've seen John's (Epicure) and it looks good too.  As much as I don't like the leaf shape as much as the others, it is definitely the healthiest Pritchardia I have (actually maybe the healthiest palm all around).  It looks flawless year round.

Matt

[Kim]

(Matt in SD @ Nov. 15 2007,23:10)

QUOTE

Matt,

The affinis I agree the affinis I've seen on the big island look weird, like the leaves are only part way open.  But mine looks pretty nice, and I've seen John's (Epicure) and it looks good too.  As much as I don't like the leaf shape as much as the others, it is definitely the healthiest Pritchardia I have (actually maybe the healthiest palm all around).  It looks flawless year round.

Matt

Matt, surely you have recent photos to illustrate this point?  Taken with your new camera?  Pretty please?

[MattyB]

They seem tough so that's a plus.  But I remember seeing Bob DeJong's before he cut it down.  It was about 20 feet tall and had that not-so-elegant look.  I'm sure yours will grow out of it.

[Matt in SD]

Yeah Matt, my affinis will probably grow out of it's cute phase like you did.

Here's a photo of my affinis for you Kim

And martii for comparison

[DoomsDave]

If your friend has the room, and it's just one Pritchardia, I still say plant a Hillebrandtii.

Here's mine, mostly recovered after this winter.  I LOVE that white fuzz, gives it that elegant look, to me anyway.

[DoomsDave]

A pornoliscious closeup of the growing point.

Whatever she gets, show us!  We'll all drool . . . . .

[Surf Guy]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Nov. 22 2007,13:06)

QUOTE

If your friend has the room, and it's just one Pritchardia, I still say plant a Hillebrandtii.

Here's mine, mostly recovered after this winter.  I LOVE that white fuzz, gives it that elegant look, to me anyway.

Wow! That thing is killer! How much sun does it get? I think they look better when they're shaded a little bit. I planted my first in spring (5 Gal.) and expect it to explode this spring and summer. Keep you posted. Mike

[DoomsDave]

Mike:

The specimen pictured gets full sun to about noon after which it's shaded by a large Cedrus deodar tree to the west.

They're not as fast as Washies, but they're still reasonable.

dave

[Kim]

To follow up: I went shopping today and bought my friend a sweet H. beccariana on sale.  I'm taken with the idea of very large round fans.  This will be a nice Christmas gift, she'll love it!

[palmislandRandy]

Ok, ok I bought a pacifica today   Randy

[Morabeza]

Aloha Kim,

Here is a picture of a luscious Pritchardia martii growing in the Castro district of SF.  Hawaiian Pritchardias seem to adore the Bay and mild, coastal Northern Californian gardens.

[DoomsDave]

Jacob . . .

S W O O O O O O N N N N N ! ! ! !

[palmmermaid]

I have a P. thurstonii planted in my yard in full sun.  We had frost a couple of nights last winter and it was fine.  It has also been through 3 hurricanes and did just fine.  And it was planted as a 3-gallon size just 4 months before the first hurricane!

[Morabeza]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Dec. 10 2007,02:51)

QUOTE

Jacob . . .

S W O O O O O O N N N N N ! ! ! !

Awe shucks, thanks Dave.  I love seeing our special Hawaiian native species thrive and at the same time garner appreciation and popularity outside the islands.  Many other ornamental species such as Koa (Acacia koa) and native Hibiscus, for example, are remarkably well adapted to mild coastal mediterranean-ish and similar garden locales.  

I haven't been in years, (last there in 2002) the Mildred Mathias Botanical Garden on the UCLA campus in Westwood, CA hosts many well-grown Hawaiian native plants, it's worth a visit!  *hint* Esp. to my palm/plant enthusiast friends in So. Cal.  

The a good number of native Hawaiian Pritchardia species that still occur naturally are found in montane habitats that experience high humidity, sometimes even in windswept locales, and temperatures between 80-50F.  This really lends them to growing in mild coastal gardens, father north (or south for your southern-hemisphere folks) than one would traditionally think.

And just to shoot from the hip, I have a hypothesis that many Hawaiian Pritchardias have some genetic insurance against cold winter temperatures because it's an accepted fact that Hawai`i was a cooler place many thousands of years ago when sea levels were much lower and our planet had more glaciers.