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Dwarf butia

Gallop

By Gallop
in COLD HARDY PALMS

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Gallop Experienced

Gallop

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A couple of my dwarf butia are flowering in the garden for the first time. I’ll attempt to produce some seed, looks like I’ll have around 5 or 6 flower stalks to work with.

IMG_2546.jpeg

  • Like 12

Paul Gallop

Jeff zone 8 N.C. Experienced

Jeff zone 8 N.C.

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like the purple petioles. I know a lot of Butia are hybridized and hard to ID but do you know what dwarf Butia?  

Scott W Mentor

Scott W

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My Butia archeri var archeri has produced zero seeds from 5 bracts this year.  First year for flowering as well.  I'm going to try and collect the pollen from the latest bract to pollinate it when the females are receptive.

Good luck with yours.

  • Like 2
Gallop Experienced

Gallop

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I’m not exactly sure what mine are? They were in the same mix of seed others got from RPS. Some are saying theirs are Butia archeri var archeri, others tell me mine are not that. I sent pictures of  to a Butia expert in Brazil and he said it looks like Butia archeri Diamantina to him… 

I know first time flowering can be problematic. I plan on collecting the pollen then pollinating the female flowers. 

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  • Like 5

Paul Gallop

Sabal King Mentor

Sabal King

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Posted

While not a dwarf I have a young Butia odorata that surprised me this week with a seed spathe.IMG_2220.thumb.jpeg.68b8de0c42582d5db8a4d6f4c3e87d7c.jpegIMG_2221.thumb.jpeg.b462ea2961a729ebdb39021a48613ac2.jpegIMG_2222.thumb.jpeg.9b7e809dd85663d8db9df5f579f08834.jpegIMG_2223.thumb.jpeg.f081a3871443c3603f81e58281bd3a2f.jpeg

  • Like 6

Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

Las Palmas Norte Grand Master

Las Palmas Norte

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Scott W Mentor

Scott W

Posted
Posted

 

On 7/13/2024 at 1:00 AM, Gallop said:

I’m not exactly sure what mine are? They were in the same mix of seed others got from RPS. Some are saying theirs are Butia archeri var archeri, others tell me mine are not that. I sent pictures of  to a Butia expert in Brazil and he said it looks like Butia archeri Diamantina to him… 

I know first time flowering can be problematic. I plan on collecting the pollen then pollinating the female flowers. 

 

Yeah, I only have one flowering and there are never two infloresence open at the same time.  Have three other that are nearly the same size and same age, so hopefully have a greater chance when more open at the same time.

Never heard of Butia archeri Diamantina, and a Google search only reference Archeri from the region of Diamantina.  Was the expert Kelen Soares?  I've seen some referance to Diamantina as well with his name attached to it.  Also, in my discussions with him he said detailed pics of the flowers will be the only true way to ID these.

Here's my last spathe that opened beginning of June...

20240602_102030.thumb.jpg.65b3c029ef42b6e7e89844c234709f07.jpg

20240602_102021.thumb.jpg.44d5e67a72386b1f36ceea27095750b7.jpg

  • Like 4
Gallop Experienced

Gallop

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14 hours ago, Scott W said:

 

Yeah, I only have one flowering and there are never two infloresence open at the same time.  Have three other that are nearly the same size and same age, so hopefully have a greater chance when more open at the same time.

Never heard of Butia archeri Diamantina, and a Google search only reference Archeri from the region of Diamantina.  Was the expert Kelen Soares?  I've seen some referance to Diamantina as well with his name attached to it.  Also, in my discussions with him he said detailed pics of the flowers will be the only true way to ID these.

Here's my last spathe that opened beginning of June...

20240602_102030.thumb.jpg.65b3c029ef42b6e7e89844c234709f07.jpg

20240602_102021.thumb.jpg.44d5e67a72386b1f36ceea27095750b7.jpg

Scott, Diamantina archeri is a morphotype identified by locality.  Archeri var archeri is something I haven’t heard from my contact in Brazil, I’m not saying it’s wrong I just haven’t heard it referenced. Since there are a few archeri variants, locality can atleast tell you where your plant came from. Butia archeri martinho campos is another example. 

Similar to what is done in the cycad world, you don’t often hear Dioon edule var edule but rather a locality name is attached. If all the Dioon edule variants were called edule var edule it would get confusing. If we don’t know exactly where the seed was collected it’s just a guess. 

IMG_8337.thumb.jpeg.cf193d7d0f4cc330db79e0f377544b8f.jpeg

 

  • Like 3

Paul Gallop

Scott W Mentor

Scott W

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Gallop said:

Scott, Diamantina archeri is a morphotype identified by locality.  Archeri var archeri is something I haven’t heard from my contact in Brazil, I’m not saying it’s wrong I just haven’t heard it referenced. Since there are a few archeri variants, locality can atleast tell you where your plant came from. Butia archeri martinho campos is another example. 

Similar to what is done in the cycad world, you don’t often hear Dioon edule var edule but rather a locality name is attached. If all the Dioon edule variants were called edule var edule it would get confusing. If we don’t know exactly where the seed was collected it’s just a guess. 

 

Thanks for this additional info, as it's something I've not come across before.  If I had to guess, several of mine definitely look more like the one you posted.  

  • Like 1
Scott W Mentor

Scott W

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Gallop said:

Scott, Diamantina archeri is a morphotype identified by locality.  Archeri var archeri is something I haven’t heard from my contact in Brazil, I’m not saying it’s wrong I just haven’t heard it referenced. Since there are a few archeri variants, locality can atleast tell you where your plant came from. Butia archeri martinho campos is another example. 

So in my quest for knowledge on this I found one article that mentions two distinct forms of Butia archeri...Butia archeri var archeri and Butia archeri var diamantinensis.  It does go on to mention naming by locality as well but then expands that the Brasilia populations are not archeri var archeri.  Article has some good pics and info regarding identifying characteristics as well.  The aecond article is by Kelen Soares regarding Butia archeri var diamantinensis.

Just thought I'd share...

Splitting Butia archeri (Arecaceae) of Brazilian central highlands: new taxonomical and conservation insights for Butia

 

Le genre Butia

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Gallop Experienced

Gallop

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 hours ago, Scott W said:

So in my quest for knowledge on this I found one article that mentions two distinct forms of Butia archeri...Butia archeri var archeri and Butia archeri var diamantinensis.  It does go on to mention naming by locality as well but then expands that the Brasilia populations are not archeri var archeri.  Article has some good pics and info regarding identifying characteristics as well.  The aecond article is by Kelen Soares regarding Butia archeri var diamantinensis.

Just thought I'd share...

Splitting Butia archeri (Arecaceae) of Brazilian central highlands: new taxonomical and conservation insights for Butia

 

Le genre Butia

Scott, great article. Thanks for sharing, the more we find the more we learn. I believe I have two “different variants” one is the variant from Diamantinensis with purple/ blue petolie-bottom pic. The other has green petolie. It’s not uncommon in the plant world with variants to receive specific species status once they are studied more thoroughly. I’ll continue to keep an eye on mine to see what other differences I may find.😎

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46104ba3-d5fa-4dd7-af35-51339bb2b7c7.jpeg

 

  • Like 3

Paul Gallop

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted
On 7/15/2024 at 2:53 PM, Scott W said:

 

Yeah, I only have one flowering and there are never two infloresence open at the same time.  Have three other that are nearly the same size and same age, so hopefully have a greater chance when more open at the same time.

Never heard of Butia archeri Diamantina, and a Google search only reference Archeri from the region of Diamantina.  Was the expert Kelen Soares?  I've seen some referance to Diamantina as well with his name attached to it.  Also, in my discussions with him he said detailed pics of the flowers will be the only true way to ID these.

Here's my last spathe that opened beginning of June...

20240602_102030.thumb.jpg.65b3c029ef42b6e7e89844c234709f07.jpg

20240602_102021.thumb.jpg.44d5e67a72386b1f36ceea27095750b7.jpg

Butia archeri Diamantina are greener. I saw them in habitat in 2010. They look like my cultivated B. archeri

20240718_131700.jpg

  • Like 5
  • Upvote 1

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Scott W Mentor

Scott W

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Alberto said:

Butia archeri Diamantina are greener. I saw them in habitat in 2010. They look like my cultivated B. archeri

Good to know, thanks Alberto!

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