Commercial Date Operations in South Texas

[ahosey01]

Found this interesting article on commercial date operations in South Texas.

I have some ideas for how this could be done at scale, but it would have to happen in the LRGV.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/HodelPalmsTrees/files/368514.pdf

@Xenon @5am @richtrav @Fusca@oliver

[knell]

Dates arent worth it for that region in my opinion, this sort of thing is how we got to the point of mowing down SE Asia to plant Elaeis guineensis

[ahosey01]

13 minutes ago, knell said:

Dates arent worth it for that region in my opinion, this sort of thing is how we got to the point of mowing down SE Asia to plant Elaeis guineensis

The RGV is almost entirely sorghum, corn, citrus and cotton at this point.

If it’s already farmland, might as well farm palms, right?

[knell]

if it is a 1:1 farmland tradeoff and the water usage doesnt increase, go for it

i’m on the restoration side of things so take my opinion with a grain of salt, not intending to derail the thread

[Xenon]

12 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

The RGV is almost entirely sorghum, corn, citrus and cotton at this point.

If it’s already farmland, might as well farm palms, right?

So why does it need to be done in the RGV? As the article says, there was already some limited commercial date production/trials in the winter garden area of south Texas north of Laredo in the past. Some of the remnant palms are still there. 

The RGV is way too humid for marketable dates...not to mention the TEXAS Phoenix Palm Decline/lethal bronzing that you keep wanting to ignore 😜

Horrible idea I think, my $0.02

Citrus is a much better marketable crop for the region. Texas red grapefruit is the best in the world imo, look forward to the mid-late season every year. 

P.S.

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline 😆

 

[bubba]

Always wondered if date production was possible in the very dry areas of south Texas. Because of the high humidity in RGV, I thought it may be possible somewhere around Laredo. That seems to be where the humidity goes down.

In Florida, I have heard colloquial stories of date palms in the dry regions of the Keys that on occasion produce edible fruit. Of course, that could well be fantasy. A few edible dates every other year cannot support a commercial business. Certainly not in Florida and RGV should stick to those Ruby Reds.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

 Certainly not in Florida and RGV should stick to those Ruby Reds.

Rio Red! (and some Star Ruby) Florida is still behind with the Ruby Reds 😛. Though I must admit FL produces some amazing white (Marsh) grapefruit in the Indian River area 

[bubba]

No question that those Ruby Reds are very special. California navels are the very best "eating orange" in my opinion!

[ahosey01]

8 hours ago, Xenon said:

So why does it need to be done in the RGV? As the article says, there was already some limited commercial date production/trials in the winter garden area of south Texas north of Laredo in the past. Some of the remnant palms are still there. 

The RGV is way too humid for marketable dates...not to mention the TEXAS Phoenix Palm Decline/lethal bronzing that you keep wanting to ignore 😜

Horrible idea I think, my $0.02

Citrus is a much better marketable crop for the region. Texas red grapefruit is the best in the world imo, look forward to the mid-late season every year. 

P.S.

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline 😆

 

See and I’m not as convinced for a couple reasons.

1st - there is significant commercial production in the coastal areas of Saudi Arabia and Oman, where humidity is also exceedingly high almost all year.

2nd - late summer rain would absolutely prevent you from getting a commercial crop in the tamr stage, 100%.  Your fruit would split and mold. However, if you read the article, you find this little nugget:

“In 1921, the Price Farm sold fresh dates, described as either yellow or red, in San Antonio.”

This suggests they were growing varieties that were best eaten in the khalal stage, like Barhi.  These are eaten more like apples when they are firm and crunchy, and are insanely popular in the middle east, and do not require the same period of dryness because they are harvested before the rain will split and mold them.

3rd - with regard to TPPD, I wonder how it is possible then to profitably grow Phoenix in the RGV for commercial landscape sales.  If it was virulent enough to prevent a commercial date operation from being profitable, wouldn’t it be virulent enough to prevent a commercial wholesale nursery operation from being profitable?  And yet I have met at least 3 growers down here in the short time I’ve been here who have acres and acres of sylvestris, canariensis and dactylifera.

Not saying this would definitely work.  I do, however, think maybe it’s not as dumb an idea as it might seem at first glance.

[SeanK]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

No question that those Ruby Reds are very special. California navels are the very best "eating orange" in my opinion!

California is a desert. All that water is stolen from the Colorado River 

[PalmatierMeg]

10 hours ago, Xenon said:

So why does it need to be done in the RGV? As the article says, there was already some limited commercial date production/trials in the winter garden area of south Texas north of Laredo in the past. Some of the remnant palms are still there. 

The RGV is way too humid for marketable dates...not to mention the TEXAS Phoenix Palm Decline/lethal bronzing that you keep wanting to ignore 😜

Horrible idea I think, my $0.02

Citrus is a much better marketable crop for the region. Texas red grapefruit is the best in the world imo, look forward to the mid-late season every year. 

P.S.

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline

Texas Phoenix Palm Decline 😆

 

I must agree. CA grows the best quality dates according to my limited knowledge - I am not a fan of edible dates. Why anyone would want to spend time, land and upkeep in a humid climate growing inferior fruit in an attempt to compete with CA’s desert-grown dates puzzles me. A lot of work and expense to scrounge up mature female and the occasional male date palm for a grove. Or roll the dice on juvenile palms, wait years to find out whether you got dates or duds.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

 

This suggests they were growing varieties that were best eaten in the khalal stage, like Barhi.  These are eaten more like apples when they are firm and crunchy, and are insanely popular in the middle east, and do not require the same period of dryness because they are harvested before the rain will split and mold them.

 

You can find fresh dates at the giant Asian markets in Houston at certain times of the year. But it's still more of a novelty than anything considering the limited targeted market. 

Compare your idea with the recent push for Texas olive cultivation...a lot of investment went it for olives within the last 20 or so years, mostly for premium olive oil. The results have been mixed/harvests unpredictable and the craze has sort of died down. Still commercially viable though and you'll see TX olive oil at HEB and even across the country, but definitely not the next Spain or Greece. 

As far as the RGV goes, I think there is a lot of potential for the fresh subtropical fruit market. Things like mangos, lychee, longan etc. You could sell to Houston alone and never keep up with demand. Limited commercial avocado and dragon fruit already exist and there was a place that used to host mango festival every year and would sell at the local farmers' market. 

[ahosey01]

21 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I must agree. CA grows the best quality dates according to my limited knowledge - I am not a fan of edible dates. Why anyone would want to spend time, land and upkeep in a humid climate growing inferior fruit in an attempt to compete with CA’s desert-grown dates puzzles me. A lot of work and expense to scrounge up mature female and the occasional male date palm for a grove. Or roll the dice on juvenile palms, wait years to find out whether you got dates or duds.

Your logic is sound but you’re baking the “inferior” assumption into the question.  A tamr or rhutab crop would absolutely be inferior, no argument from me there.  But I think there is great potential for a khalal crop to be just as good or better.  Total thermal heat units in south Texas, according to a couple papers I have read, is actually higher than in the California deserts because of higher nighttime lows and higher winter averages.  This carries the potential for greater yield. Water and land, though certainly not problem-free and uber-available in the RGV, are definitely easier to come by than in the coachella valley, for instance.

I think there are some decent reasons to attempt to yield a specific type of crop.

[ahosey01]

22 minutes ago, Xenon said:

You can find fresh dates at the giant Asian markets in Houston at certain times of the year. But it's still more of a novelty than anything considering the limited targeted market. 

Compare your idea with the recent push for Texas olive cultivation...a lot of investment went it for olives within the last 20 or so years, mostly for premium olive oil. The results have been mixed/harvests unpredictable and the craze has sort of died down. Still commercially viable though and you'll see TX olive oil at HEB and even across the country, but definitely not the next Spain or Greece. 

As far as the RGV goes, I think there is a lot of potential for the fresh subtropical fruit market. Things like mangos, lychee, longan etc. You could sell to Houston alone and never keep up with demand. Limited commercial avocado and dragon fruit already exist and there was a place that used to host mango festival every year and would sell at the local farmers' market. 

This dragonfruit thing is interesting to me. Could easily be recovered from a protracted freeze by chopping portions off the plant.  Possibly you could even chop the top half off and it would coppice back from the roots.

Where is there a commercial op you know of?  I’d like to see it.

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

This dragonfruit thing is interesting to me. Could easily be recovered from a protracted freeze by chopping portions off the plant.  Possibly you could even chop the top half off and it would coppice back from the roots.

Where is there a commercial op you know of?  I’d like to see it.

https://valleybusinessreport.com/industry/agriculture/growing-dragons-in-willacy/