Texas Palms

[Xenon]

The best Phoenix in Houston imo are in the gritty neighborhoods where the pruners don't come. These are actually within "the Loop" but far far to the east haha 

 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Two different palms that don't share any genes. While Queen palms are "one" of my favorite, I do appreciate the looks of all other palms. I'm not agreeing on that a Butia doesn't look as good as a Queen. You can't compare those.  I've seen miles of beautiful Butias planted in line along the Florida gulf coast.  The striking blueish green color as well as the curved fronds are definitely an eye catcher and never gets old to look at IMO.  Every Butia is different , I think that makes it so special .  You got to give this type of palm a lot of credit when it comes to cold hardiness.  Between the gulf coast of Central Florida and Corpus Christi ,  the only place that really seem to have the best chance to keep Queens alive for a long time at least is New Orleans.  

They are close enough to make hybrids, so I don't think they are unrelated at all. Personally, I think the hybrid is sometimes more ugly than either of the parents 🤣. I travel around Houston a lot and pass by lots of Butia...over the past month I've found two that are good looking to me, so I posted for you all to see! The others for the most part are very healthy etc just not pretty to my eyes.

The record low in New Orleans is 6F and it hit 11F not too long ago in 1989. Jacksonville saw 5F in 1985. So we can all live on "what ifs" or just plant plant plant and hope for the best 🌴🌴🌴. Queens being very common plants right up to the 2021 freeze is just an observation, not an argument! 

Here's the new generation of queens just east of downtown Houston 🌴

 

 

[Xenon]

Old and ugly near Hobby

[Xenon]

Phresh Phoenix on Bellaire Blvd in Little Saigon 

[MarcusH]

On 3/13/2026 at 11:37 AM, Xenon said:

Old and ugly near Hobby

Ok Jonathan,  for comparison show me a part of this palm in this picture that im going to add that makes it look better than those Butias ?

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Ok Jonathan,  for comparison show me a part of this palm in this picture that im going to add that makes it look better than those Butias ?

 

Everything newly planted has growing pains. Those palms are newly planted and haven't established yet (and went through a cold winter). Why do you only see what is in front of you? And not what could be in the future? Isn't that partly why we garden? To nurture potential, and not just for our instant gratification.  I see these turning into the fat giant queens I posted earlier ☺️

Those tall Butia are at least 40 years old. They aren't going to morph into one of those rare nice looking Butia at this point. There's nothing wrong with them health-wise, that's just how they look due to genetics. 

I have had palms stall and look like crap for 6-18 months after planting. Many went on to get over the slump and start pumping leaves. My king palm hasn't done much and looked like trash for ~10 months but it's finally gotten over the hill and shooting up spears. It's going to be unstoppable this year 🌴

[MarcusH]

8 hours ago, Xenon said:

Everything newly planted has growing pains. Those palms are newly planted and haven't established yet (and went through a cold winter). Why do you only see what is in front of you? And not what could be in the future? Isn't that partly why we garden? To nurture potential, and not just for our instant gratification.  I see these turning into the fat giant queens I posted earlier ☺️

Those tall Butia are at least 40 years old. They aren't going to morph into one of those rare nice looking Butia at this point. There's nothing wrong with them health-wise, that's just how they look due to genetics. 

I have had palms stall and look like crap for 6-18 months after planting. Many went on to get over the slump and start pumping leaves. My king palm hasn't done much and looked like trash for ~10 months but it's finally gotten over the hill and shooting up spears. It's going to be unstoppable this year 🌴

I don't want to step on your toes so never take my opinion or criticism the wrong way please. We're all fine gentlemen.  You seem to be a young person and grew up with Queen palms all your life. But let's be very honest and be realistic.  No matter what you imagine,  think or believe in but there was/is absolutely no real future for Queens in Houston, not long term at least. The ones that survived got very lucky but I assume they were left with some kind of internal damage so the question is how many more severe cold fronds does it take for them to succumb? I can point out many Butias that are older than 30 years but that's not the case with Queens.  Houston is just too cold to keep them alive for a very long time .  Maybe we get a 20 year stretch of mild winters again but we just don't know if it's going to happen again.  We have to live with this climate the way it is. 

Lots of parts in Florida got a reality check as well. Many zone pushed palms just ended up being dead . 

I was in Galveston yesterday.  Why wouldn't they cut down all the dead Robustas and Phoenix Canarienses on the road that takes you straight to Stuart Beach from 45 ? So many dead palms . 

[Xenon]

46 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I don't want to step on your toes so never take my opinion or criticism the wrong way please. We're all fine gentlemen.  You seem to be a young person and grew up with Queen palms all your life. But let's be very honest and be realistic.  No matter what you imagine,  think or believe in but there was/is absolutely no real future for Queens in Houston, not long term at least. The ones that survived got very lucky but I assume they were left with some kind of internal damage so the question is how many more severe cold fronds does it take for them to succumb? I can point out many Butias that are older than 30 years but that's not the case with Queens.  Houston is just too cold to keep them alive for a very long time .  Maybe we get a 20 year stretch of mild winters again but we just don't know if it's going to happen again.  We have to live with this climate the way it is. 

Lots of parts in Florida got a reality check as well. Many zone pushed palms just ended up being dead . 

I was in Galveston yesterday.  Why wouldn't they cut down all the dead Robustas and Phoenix Canarienses on the road that takes you straight to Stuart Beach from 45 ? So many dead palms . 

I'm rarely offended Marcus, no worries. But I think what you believe about Houston is due to recency bias and not rooted in statistics. Climate-wise, southeast Texas, southern Louisiana, and northeastern Florida all cluster together. San Antonio/south central Texas runs a bit colder. Over the past 100-150 years of weather records, the frequency of queen palm or citrus killing freeze or any other benchmark in these three regions is not statistically different.  You could've planted dozens of queen palms in 1990 in Houston and many would be alive and thriving for the new year in 2021, so not just 20 years. These are not simply surviving half dead palms either, these are healthy 30-40 foot plus (some of them planted in the 90s) palms producing many generations of seed.

So I don't get why you think queens can grow in New Orleans and Jacksonville but not anywhere near Houston. Is it because of one freeze in 2021? That's like saying you can't grow coconuts in Cape Canaveral but they do fine in Tampa simply because the 2026 freeze killed them in Cape Canaveral but not Tampa out of sheer chance/luck with this one particular cold event. While all long term data points to the two areas being extremely similar, if not the Cape being slightly warmer. 

I was just in Orlando back in December and saw tons of healthy tropical palms. Do I now have to deny their existence and/or ability to grow there "just because" of the freeze in 2026? One freeze somehow invalidates everything that happened the 20 or 30 years prior? 

[MarcusH]

30 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I'm rarely offended Marcus, no worries. But I think what you believe about Houston is due to recency bias and not rooted in statistics. Climate-wise, southeast Texas, southern Louisiana, and northeastern Florida all cluster together. San Antonio/south central Texas runs a bit colder. Over the past 100-150 years of weather records, the frequency of queen palm or citrus killing freeze or any other benchmark in these three regions is not statistically different.  You could've planted dozens of queen palms in 1990 in Houston and many would be alive and thriving for the new year in 2021, so not just 20 years. These are not simply surviving half dead palms either, these are healthy 30-40 foot plus (some of them planted in the 90s) palms producing many generations of seed.

So I don't get why you think queens can grow in New Orleans and Jacksonville but not anywhere near Houston. Is it because of one freeze in 2021? That's like saying you can't grow coconuts in Cape Canaveral but they do fine in Tampa simply because the 2026 freeze killed them in Cape Canaveral but not Tampa out of sheer chance/luck with this one particular cold event. While all long term data points to the two areas being extremely similar, if not the Cape being slightly warmer. 

I was just in Orlando back in December and saw tons of healthy tropical palms. Do I now have to deny their existence and/or ability to grow there "just because" of the freeze in 2026? One freeze somehow invalidates everything that happened the 20 or 30 years prior? 

I think you and I have a different understanding of growing and survival . Maybe we work on that difference we have,  so I better understand you but also you get to understand my point of view. 

I can grow Coconuts in San Antonio  right here in my yard if I want to . The question is how many months is it going to survive without protection?  The Queen palm I recently dug out in my yard survived the freeze but I didn't like the look of the burned fronds and in my experience with growing Queen palms here is that they take too long to look nice because we had two 8b and two cold 9a winter here in SA  since I moved in November 2021 .  Houston had at least one 8b and a cold 9a winter at that time as well. That's not very encouraging to grow Queen palms.  Why choose a palm that's so marginal for the area ?  If you go through threads on here there're hundreds of comments about how people lose their palms to freezes from Florida to Texas.  Why not just grow something that you know the freeze won't be a problem?  Zone pushing is just planting something on borrowed time. 

And looking at data from 1990 to 2021 Houston had a few 8b winters and I'm sure some died during that time as well.  Jonathan it isn't just 2021 that were a problem for Queens .Hands down , the vast majority of people who buy Queen palms in Houston don't even know nothing about the climate or cold hardiness.  They just buy it at the BB store,  it's cheap that's why.  What the stores sell you has to be good right?  Weren't we all like that at one point ? 

Did you read the comments in the Florida winter freeze 2026 ? Devastating but not unexpected.  Planting a coconut in Cape Canaveral is just asking for trouble.  If you draw a line where you can grow Coconuts reliable it would be from Cape Coral all the way to Melbourne,  maybe Vero but that's really pushing it.  Miami saw some coconut fatalities in the 1980s as well. So much for being a reliable palm in South Florida. Growing a palm for 20 to 30 years is not reliable.  I get your excitement and it's fun but there is no indicator that Queen palms will make a big return in Houston ever again. People got burned too many times and from what I see,  every time I go to Houston, there's only very little interest in that palm. Most people and businesses hang on to more cold hardier palms. It just makes more sense at the end of the day. If you want to grow something bulletproof,  Queen palms are definitely not on the list. I stayed in Houston ( Deer Park) for 6 weeks in 2012 . Explored the metro . Queen palms were not dominating the landscape,  it were always Robusta, Palmettos/Mexicana and several types of Phoenix palms.  I saw Queen palms and I know some neighborhood,  especially newer ones had some mass planting here and there.  Keep that time in good memories my friend as I keep looking back at times before the internet. That warm stretch of above normal temperatures was not the norm in Texas it was just luck . 

I say it in a funny way Jonathan but to me you are more like a sales person encouraging everyone to plant Queen palms in Houston.  It's like selling a Chrysler to someone,  yeah they had some good times in history but people rather walk away from it . They want something "worry free" lol.  Maybe one day you get my point .  

I took these pictures at the Baybrook mall yesterday.  Super nice looking Filiferas.  

 

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

 

I took these pictures at the Baybrook mall yesterday.  Super nice looking Filiferas.  

 

Sorry I hate filifera, glad they aren't common in Houston 😆. Cant stand the severe looking columnar bulky trunks and shaggy dull green mess. 

Marcus, we've already been over this. You going to the industrial wasteland near Deer Park is like someone only visiting Riverside and saying they've "seen all of LA". I work near Deer Park but live on the other side of town, they are completely different worlds not just in plants but in demographics and development. I won't try (as many others that lived in Houston have also) to convince you that queen palms were a common landscape plant because it's just a fact. Never have I said they dominate the landscape but were a common accent plant like in other northern zone 9 places. Mind you I've spent lots of time in the New Orleans area and have been to most of North Florida as well. Equating a warm stretch to luck...is that not the same as equating a cold stretch also to...luck? I don't need luck, something in the middle gets the job done all the same 🙃

Simply by expanding my planting options to things that are around the hardiness level of a queen palm +/-, I can increase the number of different palms that can grow here by probably 200 or 300% or more. Why should we be terrified of some risk when the reward is so high? Maybe you are content with a few common palms simply for the "vibe" but I want much more than that and I want to try things that other haven't as well. 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Sorry I hate filifera, glad they aren't common in Houston 😆. Cant stand the severe looking columnar bulky trunks and shaggy dull green mess. 

Marcus, we've already been over this. You going to the industrial wasteland near Deer Park is like someone only visiting Riverside and saying they've "seen all of LA". I work near Deer Park but live on the other side of town, they are completely different worlds not just in plants but in demographics and development. I won't try (as many others that lived in Houston have also) to convince you that queen palms were a common landscape plant because it's just a fact. Never have I said they dominate the landscape but were a common accent plant like in other northern zone 9 places. Mind you I've spent lots of time in the New Orleans area and have been to most of North Florida as well. Equating a warm stretch to luck...is that not the same as equating a cold stretch also to...luck? I don't need luck, something in the middle gets the job done all the same 🙃

Simply by expanding my planting options to things that are around the hardiness level of a queen palm +/-, I can increase the number of different palms that can grow here by probably 200 or 300% or more. Why should we be terrified of some risk when the reward is so high? Maybe you are content with a few common palms simply for the "vibe" but I want much more than that and I want to try things that other haven't as well. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I'm not going to discuss what palm looks ugly or not. That's just your opinion in this case.

Speaking of Deer Park . Do you think I stayed 6 weeks inside of a hotel or just drove around within 10 miles ? Sure I haven't seen all parts of Houston,  probably never will because it's just too big to explore every single subdivision and I also been to the Northside as well. I agree with you saying it was an accent palm .  Houston in general was never a place where palm trees were a typical landmark. There are way more palm trees growing in Jacksonville or even Pensacola as well as New Orleans.  You have to drive south of I-10 to see them more frequently planted along public places , it's also warmer by a few degrees in winter as well.  North Houston is more like a 8b/9a zone since 2021 .Sabal palms are the best for this area. 

You need to understand that most people aren't palm enthusiast.  They see a palm they like in the area and buy it at a nursery or BB store. 95 percent don't look for hybrids or whatsoever.  Too much of a hassle for them plus they aren't that easy to get.  Sure money can be an issue too.  I'm glad there are people like you who want to see where their limits are but to be really fair it would be more convincing if the palms you have go through the winter unprotected because that's the only way to see if they can even make it on their own. Protection is cheating and I have done it myself. 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

  I'm glad there are people like you who want to see where their limits are but to be really fair it would be more convincing if the palms you have go through the winter unprotected because that's the only way to see if they can even make it on their own. Protection is cheating and I have done it myself. 

Only protect zone 10. Some of the unprotected zone 9 stuff is doing great. You want me to just grow palmettos? Lol. At least plant some Livistona. I don't agree with you on people being fed up with tropicals, they are flying off the shelves. There's a near frenzy for Costco citrus trees 🤣. No shortage of new palm trees either. 

 

 

 

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Only protect zone 10. Some of the unprotected zone 9 stuff is doing great. You want me to just grow palmettos? Lol. At least plant some Livistona. I don't agree with you on people being fed up with tropicals, they are flying off the shelves. There's a near frenzy for Costco citrus trees 🤣. No shortage of new palm trees either. 

 

 

 

I know they're selling.  People buy Queen palms and plant them in SA . I've seen it happening for years while some Queen palms seem to pull through the last couple of years. I grow z10 palms as well but I keep those in large containers.  I just moved them inside the garage because tomorrow morning temperatures are going down to 36 in my area. I have 2 Ravenea Rivularis and 1 Chamaedorea Cataractarum.  They grow fast.  The Ravenea Rivularis grow very tall so I'm not sure for how long I can keep those. 

[Chester B]

I swear half the plants at Lowes are uber tropicals.  I just walk on by.....

[Xenon]

Anyone wanna understand the logic of the city planting more palms here? Are there not enough already?? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Make it make sense 🤣