Seeking Botanical Answers on Cocos nucifera and Phoenix dactylifera

[PalmFiber Fan]

I am researching the differences and similarities of retted nut husk fiber known as "coir" fiber of the Cocos nucifera, with that of the retted sheath/mesh fiber from the Phoenix dactylifera.  This inquiry includes taxanomical characteristics and historic ethnobotanical functional uses (byproducts) within the north African and Middle East regions.   I am seeking explanations of why tons of this bulk fiber would have been used in a filtration system, its history as a packing medium, and other applications, back in the 1400s.  Assistance can be compensated.  Also... any historic material as to coconut fiber being used as a packing material, or as dunnage on sailing ships - versus the use of jute (Corchorus olitorious) in those two historic uses.  Thank you.

[Ubuwuntu]

Hi, I´m currently researching Ph. dactylifera fiber as a water filter, especially in agriculural waste water filtering, as well as other applications like use as insulator and as a bulking material in construction, and would love if you could share any historal sources you have on the uses of the fiber, and ill share what I can with you.  Here in SE Iberia there are large areas of traditional palm groves from which there used to be a large variety of porducts to be extracted, but nowadays we have a severe problem with palm waste materials. The production and various uses of palm products have fallen heavily out of practice and nowadays when we have thousands of less palms than there used to we actually have a much larger problem of waste management. I work as a palm worker here, so I face the waste often, and its sad knowing that most if not all of it will be incinarated, so I've been researching different uses of byproduct, both historic and novel, and now I'm participating in a small project on the uses of the fiber. We are going to perform tests on the filtration within the next few weeks so I'll keep this post in mind and send you our results, and any papers we come across that might be relevant. Sadly I can't help you too much with the historical side of things, which seems to be what you are most interested in. Ill try and have a look through research here in Spain and ill ask some old spanish and moroccan palm workers i know if they have ever seen or heard of those uses or related. Good look with your research.

[PalmFiber Fan]

Hello Ubuwuntu. I have material which you may like. The Date Palm is being investigated by lots of people for use with composites and other byproducts so it does not go to waste. The documents I have included are written by me from research of others. If you have more specific needs, let me know. As for my request above, I too am interested in Date Palm or Coconut Palm fibers use or history of use in making boats, ropes, or if the tree and fruit was thought to be sacred? Or if it is used in religous activities?  I am also trying to find out if Date Palm Fiber.... floats? Causes smoke when it is burned by itself with nothing else? How quickly it decomposes? If it is a successful filter material?  Here are four documents which should help your search. I have much more if you like this. David

a OAK ISLAND MYSTERY FIBERS final.pdf Exploring the Potential of Waste Leaf sheath Date Palm Fibres for Composite.pdf Exploring the Potential of Waste Leaf sheath Date Palm Fibres for Composite.pdf Date Palm ByProducts, Midani.pdf

[Ubuwuntu]

On 1/19/2024 at 12:39 PM, PalmFiber Fan said:

Hello Ubuwuntu. I have material which you may like. The Date Palm is being investigated by lots of people for use with composites and other byproducts so it does not go to waste. The documents I have included are written by me from research of others. If you have more specific needs, let me know. As for my request above, I too am interested in Date Palm or Coconut Palm fibers use or history of use in making boats, ropes, or if the tree and fruit was thought to be sacred? Or if it is used in religous activities?  I am also trying to find out if Date Palm Fiber.... floats? Causes smoke when it is burned by itself with nothing else? How quickly it decomposes? If it is a successful filter material?  Here are four documents which should help your search. I have much more if you like this. David

Hi, thank you, I'll read through these over this coming week! In respect to some of your questions, I can answer a few already.  The University of Miguel Hernandez of Elche as part of their composting program and because they  have world heritage palm grove have investigated in detail all the decomposition times in different conditions, nutrients of the compost, use as a mulch, etc. Ill try and gather some of the studies and translate the relevant parts when I have time. Also the palm fiber is traditionally used here to produce a lot of smoke, it was used in smoke signals and it is also burned on the ends of dried palm leaves to celebrate the arrival of the three kings because it produce very little light but a lot of smoke. 

[PalmFiber Fan]

Thank you Umbutko!  I have much more data I can send you, so once you see what I sent, let me know what else you need.  Thank you very much for telling me about the University of Miguel Hernandez of Elche.  I would very much appreciate getting the information about the decomposition rates, which is very important to my comparison of coconut palm fiber, etc.  The info about date palm fiber smoking is also very important to my comparison with the coconut palm. I am going to relist the specific questions I would be very grateful to get information on...

1. How long does the mesh/sheath fiber on the trunk of the date palm tree (Phoenix dactylifera) take to decompose... just lying on the ground?

2. How long does the mesh/sheath fiber on the trunk of the date palm tree (Pheonix dactylifera) take to decompose... if buried underground?

3. How long does the mesh/sheath fiber on the trunk of the date palm tree (Pheonix dactylifera) take to decompose... if in saltwater? or freshwater?

4. Does the mesh/sheath fiber from the trunk of the date palm tree (Phoenix dactylifera) when it is burned by itself... make smoke? How much smoke?  (a little, some, a good amount, very much)

5. Do people there, make rope, twine or other byproducts out of the mesh/sheath fiber from the turnk of the date palm tree (Phoenix dactylifera)?

6. Historically, did people there eat coconuts, or, grew coconut palm trees, or, had or use any byproducts from the coconut husk fiber?

7. HIstorically, did people there know how to take the husk which covers the coconut seed, and make fiber for rope or twine, out of it? It is called retting.

8. Can you share your general geographic location... or a good location description for the University you mention. I need a local point of reference for my understandin where or where not coconuts were found, and where date palm trees and their fiber were. Thank you Umbutko!