Polar Vortex

[Sabal King]

Prediction for NTX...

Word on the street is 60-75 hours of below freezing (marginally, mid to upper 20's), and some cold temps, albeit these moderated quite a bit.  They had us getting 4-6f initially last weekend which has changed substantially.  Still much can happen between now and saturday night\sunday morning.. it's cold, and the only three palms I am protecting with much of any effort include

Butia x Jubea, Jubea x Butia, and a Butia.  They will get a string or two of C9 incandescent lights, with a frost cloth on top.  I did this last winter's blast, and they did swimmingly... The Sabals, are ALL up to their own devices.  Many will get burned, look crappy for a few months, but a wet spring, and sun will allow them to outgrow their damage.  It happened last year too, just wish it didn't happen two dang times in a row.

Whatever doesn't make it, will be noted, and replaced with something bulletproof here.

[WSimpson]

18 hours ago, Manalto said:

30/19F predicted for Mobile on Tuesday. A daytime high below freezing is unusual here. This will turn the dieback perennials, which have endured until now, to slime. Otherwise above freezing.

I'm supposed to get above freezing every day but one of those days says a High of 34F so things could change . 

[Silas_Sancona]

37 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

What temps can plumeria take and survive? I see them everywhere here in Fort Lauderdale, but they are pretty large trees here.  Do they move them when they are that large? I can't imagine having to do that. 

 

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

30° very briefly won’t hurt a large one . Below that they start to die back 

Cold Tolerance is dependant on the variety, and age of the specimen... Most will tolerate down to about 32-30 w/ out issue, though there are some that can tolerate slightly lower temps ...IF it is DRY..  Wet + temps below the low 30s  can be an issue.

Plumeria were one of the " tropicals " i monitored the most after the 09-10 cold spell when i lived in Largo.. A well known Plumeria grower's nursery is located about a block and a half from my former apartment there and i'd walk down to his place to examine all his in- ground specimens after the cold passed. Only a few suffered some tip damage, and only one or two smaller ones were turned to mush.. Rest were fine ..and are still there to this day. 

Same story around my immediate neighborhood / rest of the St. Pete / Clearwater area, and warmer areas of Tampa.  Outside of there? different story.  None of my plants ( in pots ) or others scattered around my neighborhood in Bradenton / neighborhoods in Sarasota suffered damage during cooler winter spells where there was frost on the ground i'd seen when i lived there.


It's a long list, and will take some detailed study, but, Shared this informative guide elsewhere a few times but will drop it in here..

While geared toward CA and AZ growers, Info contained, as it relates to frost / freeze tolerance of the ....numerous.... cultivars can be used there in FL as well.

https://atkinsonplumeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Plumeria-compilation-2020-v3.pdf


 

[southpacific73]

Bottomed out at 9F this morning! It’s only 14F and sunny at 11am here in Metro Vancouver. Another brutal night down to 10F. Pretty sure some plants  will get destroyed before we send the vortex packing south to Texas!

[MarcusH]

45 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

in North America, zones have to be taken with a large grain of salt. no where else on earth gets the winter temp anomalies North America does. Always has happened and always will. It is due to the large oceans on either side and the constant passing of fronts make winters highly unstable in North America. Add into that mix no decent east west mountain chain to block the cold. Most unstable winters on earth. People in France grow things that would blow your mind and much higher latitudes. Same for all of Western Europe. China is the native home of citrus at the  latitudes of Savannah. Shanghai in China has a record low of 14F but an average January low of 35. That is a diff of 21F, while Savannah at the same latitude has a record low of 3F and an average January low of 40F. That is a difference of 37F. Every other place on the planet at Savannah's latitude has a smaller diff between their record lows and their average lows. It will never change. When I visited the southeast US in the 80's the only darn palm you saw in Savannah was sabal palmetto. Houston and SA should go back to their 80's palms. Boring but safe and less expensive.  

I agree with you about the weather pattern however I'm not agreeing on what grows in the U.S. . I've been living in Germany for most of my life ( born and raised ) . I've seen most of Europe and been around the block in the U.S. a few time so long story short that statement it would blow my mind isn't true.  Hardiness Zones reach up to 11 on U.S. main land but correct me if I'm wrong .  I've been to Florida North to South nowhere in Europe I have seen such a tropical landscape not even on those Spanish islands 😑.  We also have California with its Mediterranean climate to offer. Coastal areas in SoCali can pretty much grow anything your heart desires except palms that require more humidity and more hotter days in general.  As for Texas goes yes we can't grow many varieties but that doesn't make it less fun.  Why is a Sabal boring?  I personally appreciate all kinds of palms . If you look for tropical palms Europe doesn't even show up on that list. 

 

[_nevi]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Downtown Houston Robustas swaying around before 22/24° @Xenon here are updated daytime picture

Just a technical point — that place is actually the Hermann Park area of the city, between the Museum Park neighborhood northeast and the TMC region southwest. The "actual downtown" is indeed nearby, but two neighborhoods to the northeast (so past the aforementioned Museum Park, and then past "Midtown" neighborhood, easily connected via the METRORail "Red Line").

But nonetheless, I personally consider all the Houston area inside 610 to be the "central city" (i.e. contains much of the denser, more walkable areas within the more cohesive historic grid). But recently, some areas out within Beltway 8 are starting to densify/urbanize. The lack of zoning laws helps with new infill (and, therefore, more potential for "heat island/building shelter" effects").

Anyway, that grouping of palms looks very nice considering the cold spells of recent years. If low 20s are the end result, then it shouldn't be too bad outside cosmetics.

Edited January 12, 2024 by _nevi

[fr8train]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

 Why is a Sabal boring?  I personally appreciate all kinds of palms . If you look for tropical palms Europe doesn't even show up on that list. 

 

I don't really understand why many people have this attitude about them either. Imo they look tropical and exotic (especially when they're not over trimmed), more so than Washingtonia. You see them all over South Florida growing in the Everglades.

[ChicagoPalma]

@Allen You sure the cannas are gonna survive? A foot and a half of snow and two ft of mulch is really enough?

Edited January 12, 2024 by ChicagoPalma

[Foxpalms]

4 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I agree with you about the weather pattern however I'm not agreeing on what grows in the U.S. . I've been living in Germany for most of my life ( born and raised ) . I've seen most of Europe and been around the block in the U.S. a few time so long story short that statement it would blow my mind isn't true.  Hardiness Zones reach up to 11 on U.S. main land but correct me if I'm wrong .  I've been to Florida North to South nowhere in Europe I have seen such a tropical landscape not even on those Spanish islands 😑.  We also have California with its Mediterranean climate to offer. Coastal areas in SoCali can pretty much grow anything your heart desires except palms that require more humidity and more hotter days in general.  As for Texas goes yes we can't grow many varieties but that doesn't make it less fun.  Why is a Sabal boring?  I personally appreciate all kinds of palms . If you look for tropical palms Europe doesn't even show up on that list. 

 

Depends on where in Europe. Also a lot of European countries like to plant the same palms over and over (CIDPS, Washingtonias and true date palms). Almost all palms except the ultra tropicals will grow in certain parts of southern Europe at 36N (the same latitude as Virginia beach or Monterey Ca. You also have Madeira and the canary islands where every single palm tree species should be able to grow there. USA has plenty of great places for palms but nowhere on earth is as warm as Europe for it's latitude. There's a zone 10b a 50N in Europe and a 10a areas at 56N which is 966 miles further north than the furthest north zone 10 in the USA.

[Allen]

19 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

@Allen You sure the cannas are gonna survive? A foot and a half of snow and two ft of mulch is really enough?

I guess we'll see in May who knows

[Leelanau Palms]

I inadvertently overwintered cannas planted deeply in sandy soil with 4 inches of mulch 30 feet from my previous house here in northwest lower Michigan. They emerged late.

[UK_Palms]

We're about to get smoked by the vortex over here as well. There is a bit of a split going on with one going down North America, which you will get, one going down Scandinavia and through western Europe, which I will get, and a third going down far east Russia, China and Japan.

The American vortex doesn't even look that bad to be honest, but you have no seas or oceans there to moderate the polar airmass like we do in western Europe. The European vortex looks bigger and worse, but the effects are more mitigated over here by the time it crosses open water.

 

 

I can see Monday night night going down to 30F at London City airport even. A few of those days are barely rising above freezing as well too. These are crap temperatures ffs. 🙄

 

We already fought off one bombardment of cold over the past week, but will need to fight off another next week. The European continent has just been smoked. Some of it reached across the English channel into southern England, but the difference on the other side of the channel was about 5C / 10F of protection. This time it will be coming from the north however.

These were midday / lunchtime temperatures on Tuesday. Look at the temperature (°C) gradient between the continent and eastern England...

 

The cold airmass tried to make a final push across on Wednesday night, but the English channel ate it up mostly. The exposed St James Park in London went down to 0.3C / 33F.

 

Now we await round two, involving the actual vortex displacement. We are going to need some luck on both sides of the pond.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

Depends on where in Europe. Also a lot of European countries like to plant the same palms over and over (CIDPS, Washingtonias and true date palms). Almost all palms except the ultra tropicals will grow in certain parts of southern Europe at 36N (the same latitude as Virginia beach or Monterey Ca. You also have Madeira and the canary islands where every single palm tree species should be able to grow there. USA has plenty of great places for palms but nowhere on earth is as warm as Europe for it's latitude. There's a zone 10b a 50N in Europe and a 10a areas at 56N which is 966 miles further north than the furthest north zone 10 in the USA.

To me it's not irrelevant what grows in Europe at a latitude that's hundreds of miles further north because I'm here in Texas , not in Germany or England .  Might be all true what you're saying but I honestly don't feel a disadvantage of growing palms here. It's not a competition right ? All I know and see is that severe freezes like that happen sometimes more or less in the U.S. . Nothing new but palms have been growing here before I was born and will continue after I'm 6 feet down.  Sabal palmetto and mexicana are absolutely bulletproof as well as Washingtonia Filifera and Filibusta . 2021 only killed palms that should not be planted at first place. Everything else recovered well . 

[Aceraceae]

3 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Depends on where in Europe. Also a lot of European countries like to plant the same palms over and over (CIDPS, Washingtonias and true date palms). Almost all palms except the ultra tropicals will grow in certain parts of southern Europe at 36N (the same latitude as Virginia beach or Monterey Ca. You also have Madeira and the canary islands where every single palm tree species should be able to grow there. USA has plenty of great places for palms but nowhere on earth is as warm as Europe for it's latitude. There's a zone 10b a 50N in Europe and a 10a areas at 56N which is 966 miles further north than the furthest north zone 10 in the USA.

Lerwick Scotland UK in the northern Shetland Islands is at 60 degrees north and is zone 9. Some winters are near zone 10 with no hard freeze. It has colder summers but milder winters than even western Norway where there is a botanical garden with palms at about 59 degrees north in Stavanger. The annual average temp in Shetland is 8 C or 46 F which is cold but that's at a Stevenson screen weather station on a hill outside of Lerwick city. Stavanger is a bit colder in the winter with more frost but has a more defined warm season with summer several degrees warmer than the northern isles. Copenhagen also had a 9b or 10a winter a few years ago with no hard freeze. 

[Dwarf Fan]

Out of the 40 species I have, only my Thrinax Radiata is getting any protection everyone else I am not too worried about but I will report any damage I notice.

Fortunately even though I am supposed to drop below freezing on Tuesday my outlook is much better than most in Texas:

 

[JohnAndSancho]

I need @Philly Jto come get his weather 

[PalmsNC]

6 hours ago, MarcusH said:

To me it's not irrelevant what grows in Europe at a latitude that's hundreds of miles further north because I'm here in Texas , not in Germany or England .  Might be all true what you're saying but I honestly don't feel a disadvantage of growing palms here. It's not a competition right ? All I know and see is that severe freezes like that happen sometimes more or less in the U.S. . Nothing new but palms have been growing here before I was born and will continue after I'm 6 feet down.  Sabal palmetto and mexicana are absolutely bulletproof as well as Washingtonia Filifera and Filibusta . 2021 only killed palms that should not be planted at first place. Everything else recovered well . 

Ehh, those oceanic warm zones don't feel right to me. Sure, zone 9 or 10 but when it's 30s and 40s all winter with 0 sun and 0 UV and then 60s and 70s with clouds in summertime with a few warmer days.... idk, doesn't feel like a zone 9. I think Australians use a different system where they factor in heat as well. Sure you can grow some palms albeit slowly in these oceanic zones but what's the point of palms if the weather never even feels tropical? Western Europe has also largely lucked out on any crazy cold for going on 15 years now.

[MarcusH]

4 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Ehh, those oceanic warm zones don't feel right to me. Sure, zone 9 or 10 but when it's 30s and 40s all winter with 0 sun and 0 UV and then 60s and 70s with clouds in summertime with a few warmer days.... idk, doesn't feel like a zone 9. I think Australians use a different system where they factor in heat as well. Sure you can grow some palms albeit slowly in these oceanic zones but what's the point of palms if the weather never even feels tropical? Western Europe has also largely lucked out on any crazy cold for going on 15 years now.

Like I mentioned earlier I'm originally from Germany and I traveled around Europe a lot. The only places that weren't known for being overcast and rainy for numerous days each year were France,  Italy and Spain . The weather in the UK and Ireland is awful.  Mostly overcast,  not really warm, only in the summer and rain fall is common.  Sure some places allows them to grow some palms which is good . I just don't like these comparisons about who can grow what . I focus on my yard not in the UK , Key West or Honolulu and I certainly don't want to move to these places and worry about cost of living or hurricanes just to tell everyone hey look and see how great my coconut palms look like . If you already live there that's a different story I'm just saying I'm here I'm stuck in San Antonio that's my home and I try my best to successfully grow palms and it isn't even nearly as cold as the 1980s and so far there many palms in this area ( not like coastal cities here in TX or Florida) . 

[Sabal King]

15 hours ago, fr8train said:

I don't really understand why many people have this attitude about them either. Imo they look tropical and exotic (especially when they're not over trimmed), more so than Washingtonia. You see them all over South Florida growing in the Everglades.

Finally, some more people who are agreeing with me lol... Best part is they can take this nonsense, and keep moving forward... Sabals FTW!

[ChrisA]

It breaks my heart to see those poor hummingbirds dealing with the frozen feeders, not to mention winter flowers that have now perished in the PNW. I'm so happy that people do put out thawed nectar to keep these poor buggers going.  

Here in S. Central Texas, I haven't seen a hummingbird since November but see them still appearing on the local ebird accounts. I suppose I'm ready in San Antonio for the cold, as well as I can be. I've got my new Queen wrapped in frost fabric with lights strung within, as well as my two young Mexican Fan Palms that are still growing.  Here's hoping the cold isn't so bad and we stay in the 20's and above freezing during the day.  We all know that no matter what temperature they forecast for the high, if there are thick clouds and it's cold, it doesn't warm up. Pray for sun on the coldest days. 

Good luck y'all! This too shall pass. ☀️🌴

[Foxpalms]

5 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Ehh, those oceanic warm zones don't feel right to me. Sure, zone 9 or 10 but when it's 30s and 40s all winter with 0 sun and 0 UV and then 60s and 70s with clouds in summertime with a few warmer days.... idk, doesn't feel like a zone 9. I think Australians use a different system where they factor in heat as well. Sure you can grow some palms albeit slowly in these oceanic zones but what's the point of palms if the weather never even feels tropical? Western Europe has also largely lucked out on any crazy cold for going on 15 years now.

It depends where. The main reason tropical looking plants are popular here is because they look nice and people here like them. You also have to remember like in the USA a lot of people from even further north zones in Europe will go on holiday/Vacation within their own country so people like to travel further south and see palms ect. I would agree with the cool summers which is why I would never more to Cornwall. It might be a zone 10a on the coast but the summer highs there only average high 60s maybe 70, 71 in certain areas. In London the last 10 years the average high of the hottest month (July) has been just over 77f which is fine. In the city center the lows here are also fine around 62f on average. Whilst for half of the year the weather might be cool and cloudy and not great, for the other 6 months of the year there's nothing better than sitting in the garden looking at the palms on a nice sunny day. Last winter parts of the UK including parts of London had the coldest temps since the 1980s. The coldest month in Central London has an average high of 49f and low of 41f. The main issue with here is the lack of sunshine only around 1700 hours annually and the low UV level. The UV index here is a 0.6 at the moment and in late June/early July it only peaks at a 9. Also in my opinion palms trees aren't a sign of a tropical climate they are a sign of a milder area. A lot of palms are native to non tropical areas. The san Francisco bay area is full of palms but cooler than here in the summer, far from Tropical, but the palms make the area look nicer.  Palms will grow slower here compared to other warmer parts of the world however washingtonia's will still push out 3ft of growth per year.

[SeanK]

KHOU Weather predicts low 20's SE Houston, upper teens NW Houston. Seems normal. Galveston of course warmer overnight.

[Foxpalms]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Like I mentioned earlier I'm originally from Germany and I traveled around Europe a lot. The only places that weren't known for being overcast and rainy for numerous days each year were France,  Italy and Spain . The weather in the UK and Ireland is awful.  Mostly overcast,  not really warm, only in the summer and rain fall is common.  Sure some places allows them to grow some palms which is good . I just don't like these comparisons about who can grow what . I focus on my yard not in the UK , Key West or Honolulu and I certainly don't want to move to these places and worry about cost of living or hurricanes just to tell everyone hey look and see how great my coconut palms look like . If you already live there that's a different story I'm just saying I'm here I'm stuck in San Antonio that's my home and I try my best to successfully grow palms and it isn't even nearly as cold as the 1980s and so far there many palms in this area ( not like coastal cities here in TX or Florida) . 

That is what I try to do here take advantage of my microclimate and grow and experiment with palms and tropical plants. There might be better places to on Earth to grow palms, but since they will grow and some do pretty well here might as well take advantage of that. It is certainly a lot nicer to look into the garden and see king palms ect than just a grass lawn and deciduous trees. I'm guessing that is why most people on here grow palms because they look nice and make the garden more visually appealing.

[Foxpalms]

2 hours ago, Sabal King said:

Finally, some more people who are agreeing with me lol... Best part is they can take this nonsense, and keep moving forward... Sabals FTW!

Washingtonias remind me of warm-hot dry low humidity weather and the Mediterranean climate. Whilst sabals remind me hot and humid places. Especially sabal bermudana.

[N8ALLRIGHT]

20 hours ago, Paradise Found said:

Hummingbirds have been here all day, time to defrost again. 

Lil bros need a lot of calories

Good on you for helping them 

 

[MarcusH]

13 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

That is what I try to do here take advantage of my microclimate and grow and experiment with palms and tropical plants. There might be better places to on Earth to grow palms, but since they will grow and some do pretty well here might as well take advantage of that. It is certainly a lot nicer to look into the garden and see king palms ect than just a grass lawn and deciduous trees. I'm guessing that is why most people on here grow palms because they look nice and make the garden more visually appealing.

If you can grow palms and that's what you want go for it . Whatever makes you happy because you do it for you not for others.  I look at my climate and that allows me to grow certain palms in our area for now and I enjoy it . Palms aren't really that popular in San Antonio if so I would see a lot more but they aren't unpopular either . My wife doesn't care for palms so that should tell me something lol. There's also nothing wrong with experimenting but we all know climate is unpredictable.  Remember last year or even after the big freeze in 2021 when a lot of people here in this forum said we should see a decade of milder winters ? What happens in the opposite.  More severe freezes and I certainly don't count on a milder winter next year so what I'm doing is I will rethink my plans because ( that's just me) I like a trouble free palm growing in my yard without worrying about it and only two palms come up in my mind . Sabals and Washies(Filifera and Filibusta) and I think they're beautiful palms and I'm saying it not because I have too many other options.  Phoenix dactylifera should be fine here by the way. Personally I think it's cool that you're able to grow palms in the UK I wasn't that lucky when I used to live in Germany.  

[MarcusH]

40 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

It depends where. The main reason tropical looking plants are popular here is because they look nice and people here like them. You also have to remember like in the USA a lot of people from even further north zones in Europe will go on holiday/Vacation within their own country so people like to travel further south and see palms ect. I would agree with the cool summers which is why I would never more to Cornwall. It might be a zone 10a on the coast but the summer highs there only average high 60s maybe 70, 71 in certain areas. In London the last 10 years the average high of the hottest month (July) has been just over 77f which is fine. In the city center the lows here are also fine around 62f on average. Whilst for half of the year the weather might be cool and cloudy and not great, for the other 6 months of the year there's nothing better than sitting in the garden looking at the palms on a nice sunny day. Last winter parts of the UK including parts of London had the coldest temps since the 1980s. The coldest month in Central London has an average high of 49f and low of 41f. The main issue with here is the lack of sunshine only around 1700 hours annually and the low UV level. The UV index here is a 0.6 at the moment and in late June/early July it only peaks at a 9. Also in my opinion palms trees aren't a sign of a tropical climate they are a sign of a milder area. A lot of palms are native to non tropical areas. The san Francisco bay area is full of palms but cooler than here in the summer, far from Tropical, but the palms make the area look nicer.  Palms will grow slower here compared to other warmer parts of the world however washingtonia's will still push out 3ft of growth per year.

You're right it isn't just a sign of tropics I'm also a huge fan of desert climate like here in Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada.  Those Washies and Phoenix date palms look great over there . Look at the Canarian Islands in Europe you know what I'm talking about.  I like both tropical palms and desert palms.  

[MarcusH]

15 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

We're about to get smoked by the vortex over here as well. There is a bit of a split going on with one going down North America, which you will get, one going down Scandinavia and through western Europe, which I will get, and a third going down far east Russia, China and Japan.

The American vortex doesn't even look that bad to be honest, but you have no seas or oceans there to moderate the polar airmass like we do in western Europe. The European vortex looks bigger and worse, but the effects are more mitigated over here by the time it crosses open water.

 

 

I can see Monday night night going down to 30F at London City airport even. A few of those days are barely rising above freezing as well too. These are crap temperatures ffs. 🙄

 

We already fought off one bombardment of cold over the past week, but will need to fight off another next week. The European continent has just been smoked. Some of it reached across the English channel into southern England, but the difference on the other side of the channel was about 5C / 10F of protection. This time it will be coming from the north however.

These were midday / lunchtime temperatures on Tuesday. Look at the temperature (°C) gradient between the continent and eastern England...

 

The cold airmass tried to make a final push across on Wednesday night, but the English channel ate it up mostly. The exposed St James Park in London went down to 0.3C / 33F.

 

Now we await round two, involving the actual vortex displacement. We are going to need some luck on both sides of the pond.

You're lucky to have bodies of water around your island otherwise palms wouldn't make it so take advantage of it and grow some more palms lol. While I lived in Germany they tried to sell us Trachies but even my area got too cold to grow them without protection.  There was one car wash that had 4 trachies planted in the ground oh boy they looked so beaten up in the winter I can't really tell you if they're still alive.  You shouldn't be worried about polar vortexes too much but correct me if I'm wrong . Stay warm. 

 

[MarcusH]

24 minutes ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Lil bros need a lot of calories

Good on you for helping them 

 

Hummingbirds are one of my favorite birds in the wild . We do have a lot of plants in our yard that also attracts Hummingbirds and bees when everything is blooming. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

KHOU Weather predicts low 20's SE Houston, upper teens NW Houston. Seems normal. Galveston of course warmer overnight.

23° degrees now expected in Alvin, curious how cold Freeport and clute get 

[Las Palmas Norte]

Day 2 of the "vortex" and not as cold overnight as yesterday 20.5°F (-6.4°C).

 

Edited January 13, 2024 by Las Palmas Norte

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

You're lucky to have bodies of water around your island otherwise palms wouldn't make it so take advantage of it and grow some more palms lol.

That's why they're referred to as islands, they're surrounded by water. 🤣

There's somewhat of a mitigating factor to extreme cold here (Vancouver Island) as well, although not as pronounced as England. Our proximity to the mainland and a northerly latitude are aspects that work against us. I haven't seen any birds since the vortex started.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

That's why they're referred to as islands, they're surrounded by water. 🤣

There's somewhat of a mitigating factor to extreme cold here (Vancouver Island) as well, although not as pronounced as England. Our proximity to the mainland and a northerly latitude are aspects that work against us. I haven't seen any birds since the vortex started.

I don't know why it doesn't get that cold but I think Washies in Vancouver look pretty cool with the mountains around.  By the way how accurate are these weather stations for a budget ? 

[ShadyDan]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Day 2 of the "vortex" and not as cold overnight as yesterday 20.5°F (-6.4°C).

 

Seems North Island got off pretty easy last night while the South Island got the brunt of the cold. New all time cold record for me last night at my place, but Victoria was significantly colder (which rarely happens) based on Wunderground stations, averaging around -12C. Now the warmup begins, hoping we can crack the freezing mark by tomorrow afternoon. 

[_nevi]

21 hours ago, fr8train said:

I don't really understand why many people have this attitude about them either. Imo they look tropical and exotic (especially when they're not over trimmed), more so than Washingtonia. You see them all over South Florida growing in the Everglades.

For sabals, I do prefer specimen that have larger crown-to-trunk ratios. Same applies for my preferences regarding other palm genera too.

Edited January 13, 2024 by _nevi

[Trustandi]

I feel bad for you guys, our PNW canadian friends. You guys hadn't had any breaks from the arctic lows these past two or three years. My low this year is 14/15F, I am back into zone 8b. Even Portland, OR got much colder this year 13F. 🤐. Hopefully, there won't be any palm casualties.

[RJ]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:04 PM, Will Simpson said:

I'm supposed to get above freezing every day but one of those days says a High of 34F so things could change . 

Looks like Wednesday night / Thursday morning are the cold ones for us. I’m currently showing a low of 26, but that can certainly change for the worse 🤕

[Foxpalms]

3 hours ago, MarcusH said:

You're lucky to have bodies of water around your island otherwise palms wouldn't make it so take advantage of it and grow some more palms lol. While I lived in Germany they tried to sell us Trachies but even my area got too cold to grow them without protection.  There was one car wash that had 4 trachies planted in the ground oh boy they looked so beaten up in the winter I can't really tell you if they're still alive.  You shouldn't be worried about polar vortexes too much but correct me if I'm wrong . Stay warm. 

 

The polar vortex about to hit here is dragging air all the way over the artic circle from 90N straight onto us.  Meanwhile the polar vortex that will hit Texas will push the jetstream very low which will result in a winter heatwave for southern Spain, canaries ect. Best case scenario no sub 32f temps worse case it might get to around 30f. Where UK palms is somewhere from -3 to -5c. Either way the humidity will be low here which helps. At the worst it might cause some frost burn on very sensitive plants such as the Brachychiton acerifolius, monstera deliciosa, dracaena marginata ect. 

 

 

 

 

The end result of the Polar vortex in the USA is sending the Jetstream extremely is low causing a heatwave for Western southern Europe. The costal spots in the canary islands should be around 21-22c during the day at this time of the year and 17c at night. Parts of Eastern Gran Canaria reached over 30c yesterday.

[Sabal King]

It's close to us here in NTX..... it's 60 right now here in North Dallas, and 28 just a few hours west in Wichita Falls, TX....  Who's ready for a nice zone 8 winter?????  Buckle up boys!

I recorded a video, walked around the property, and showed how we are protecting a few of our palms.

https://youtu.be/yPKoHtVwF4I

[Robert Cade Ross]

8 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

It's close to us here in NTX..... it's 60 right now here in North Dallas, and 28 just a few hours west in Wichita Falls, TX....  Who's ready for a nice zone 8 winter?????  Buckle up boys!

🤞🤞🤞