Hello friends

Sub freezing temps are predicted at night this week which will destroy my royals…I can cover them with packing blankets and bungee cords overnight but is there an easier way especially to cover the fronds?

jon

Hi Jon--

In what area of L.A. are you located? I'm not seeing any forecasts of sub-freezing temps even in the typical cold spots like Woodland Hills. Are you perhaps in a frost-hollow or canyon-mouth in the West Valley? That's the only place I can think of that might receive big doses of extreme cold. Most of the frost advisories relate to the far "Inland Empire" in the usual area (I-15 corridor/River of Frost). 

I lived in L.A. close to 25 years and know its areas pretty well in terms of climate. I lived in Los Feliz during the 1990 freeze (in a frost-hollow, to boot), and I did lose a young Roystonea regia to temps that were probably around 25...but it was a small tree, and that was an historic freeze. Nothing of that magnitude is expected at the moment. And from your photos it looks like yours are large enough to withstand light frosts/freezes and survive...they get stronger every year and there are many dotted around the L.A. metro, I assume even in the Valley's coldest areas.

1 hour ago, mnorell said:

And from your photos it looks like yours are large enough to withstand light frosts/freezes and survive...they get stronger every year and there are many dotted around the L.A. metro, I assume even in the Valley's coldest areas.

Photos?

So I’m in Agoura north of Woodland Hills and it gets very cold at night - it always seems colder on my thermometer than the forecast. Last winter the royals got demolished with the cold and rain.

the leaves are starting to go a bit brown. Heat lamps? Is there anything I can do?

Is wrapping the crown in packing blankets covered in lights going to help with the fronds from radiant heat?

 

Keep those Christmas lights on and they will be fine.  You got plenty of concrete to give off some warmth.  

I see...yes, I know that Agoura/Calabasas area somewhat, all the very craggy terrain adjacent to Malibu Lake and the old Paramount Ranch...can get very, very cold! And I have a similar situation here, in that most of the forecasts for nighttime winter lows at my house in Rancho Mirage are 3-5F too warm, particularly from NOAA. That makes me very nervous when I see "37" on the NWS site! I just looked at the NWS Agoura forecast and it does show Monday morning at 32 (but breezy, so maybe not a problem) and Tuesday morning at 30...if you think you're going to hit mid-20s then you might wrap the crownshafts, even try to bundle the leaves tightly if you can reach them, just to keep some frost off of them. There are some folks on this forum who do a lot of protection and can I'm sure give you some very good techniques.

Usually Royals pull through mild frosts/freezes once they are trunking in SoCal, it seems. The one "easy" thing I can think of...check the bottoms of your trunks, if there is any space between the ground and the base of the trunk, that means the root-initiation zone and your roots will be exposed at the very coldest spot (the ground)...and I would suggest you mound up about 6" of a fluffy/barky mulch just to keep the ground-warmth there. I've noticed that Royals sometimes have a tendency to push themselves upward, depending on the substrate (and/or the ground compacts/erodes over time beneath them) and it's important to make sure that area is insulated and protected by the earth (which is of course a good deal warmer than the air above it). It does look like you've got some good air-drainage with the palms on a decent slope, that should assist somewhat.

Best of luck to you, let's hope it doesn't get too very cold!

I use propane heaters they have always worked for me!!

8 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

So I’m in Agoura north of Woodland Hills and it gets very cold at night - it always seems colder on my thermometer than the forecast. Last winter the royals got demolished with the cold and rain.

the leaves are starting to go a bit brown. Heat lamps? Is there anything I can do?

Is wrapping the crown in packing blankets covered in lights going to help with the fronds from radiant heat?

 

They’ll be fine if this forecast is accurate. You’ll be WELL above freezing. 
 

 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Jim in Los Altos

Right now it does indeed look like we’re going to hit 30 for one night - I got some incandescent Xmas lights but they’re hot to the touch, what’s on there is LED - is it safe to have old school Xmas lights wrapped around the crown shaft?

42 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

Right now it does indeed look like we’re going to hit 30 for one night - I got some incandescent Xmas lights but they’re hot to the touch, what’s on there is LED - is it safe to have old school Xmas lights wrapped around the crown shaft?

What is your source for the 30° prediction? Every weather source I’ve checked shows your area (Agoura Hills) having a minimum of 38°F. I’m hundreds of miles north of you and my forecast lowest low is 38°F as well. 

Weather people can’t predict the weather 2 days in advance!!! They can only predict global warming years in advance!!!

4 minutes ago, 96720 said:

Weather people can’t predict the weather 2 days in advance!!! They can only predict global warming years in advance!!!

Haha nice one

His lows are a little lower than mine over the next 10 days. However his highs are a little higher. 
But his specific location could be in a cooler microclimate than what an app says.

I have 2: one is much larger than the other which was planted as a 15 and survived last winter. 
You can try using lights. But these temps are not to threaten your palms. You won’t be able to avoid leaf browning. That’s gonna to happen especially once the Santa Anna’s pick up. By July your palms will be full of green fronds again. Over time as they put on height they will brown less in winter. As the height, increased biomass and density of royal fronds increases as it matures. I was just at the San Diego zoo Thursday the 40 ft tall royals there were even  looking a little ratty compared to the summer months. 

Ah yes thanks @James B that looks to be what I’m seeing too although the temps go up and down 3 degrees depending on when I look.

They survived last winter so I’m less worried about that than just another painful 6 month rehab

I can attest to the forecast temperatures not being close to what I see (in the same city). 

I've seen that consistently in the winter, my low temperatures can be as much as 6 to 9 degrees lower than the forecast for downtown (insulated by the bay). If there's cloud cover, my lows are much closer to forecast. 

Today I was getting a little nervous, because the forecast was calling for lows (for me) around freezing. I was worried until I saw that it would also be windy. Without frost, I'm really not concerned about this event. 

Not sure if it will be windy down your way, but this is what does and doesn't keep me awake at night. 

What temp did it end up being?
 

Where I live in SD there is no weather tower so the temp predictions and cloud coverage is wrong more often than it is right. The only time my weather app gets the temp right is when there is full cloud coverage/ high atmospheric moister.

Here in SWFL Roystonea regia is a 9b palm and takes down to the mid-20s. They will be damaged but generally not killed if the palm is healthy and the cold temps are short lived. But throw in cold winter rain and the odds aren't as good for them. Keep the rain off them. They should survive 30-32F with frond damage. My royals look a bit shabby post-winter even when lows don't fall below 40F. Cold, nutrient deficiencies take their toll.

On 1/6/2024 at 1:04 PM, James B said:

His lows are a little lower than mine over the next 10 days. However his highs are a little higher. 
But his specific location could be in a cooler microclimate than what an app says.

I have 2: one is much larger than the other which was planted as a 15 and survived last winter. 
You can try using lights. But these temps are not to threaten your palms. You won’t be able to avoid leaf browning. That’s gonna to happen especially once the Santa Anna’s pick up. By July your palms will be full of green fronds again. Over time as they put on height they will brown less in winter. As the height, increased biomass and density of royal fronds increases as it matures. I was just at the San Diego zoo Thursday the 40 ft tall royals there were even  looking a little ratty compared to the summer months. 

So, are those temps typical of several months of your winter there or is this just an abnormally low period/forecast? I know Roystonea has been successfully grown in your areas so just curious overall. Seems like Roystonea may have more cool tolerance than I realize. Do any Roystonea grow at high altitudes in the Caribbean basin etc.?

19 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

So, are those temps typical of several months of your winter there or is this just an abnormally low period/forecast? I know Roystonea has been successfully grown in your areas so just curious overall. Seems like Roystonea may have more cool tolerance than I realize. Do any Roystonea grow at high altitudes in the Caribbean basin etc.?

I have been able to grow 2 Royals successfully in my old garden and 2 in my current garden. The past two winters have been abnormal as far as extended cold/low day time highs. I’ve found that planting 20 gallon size for me where I am at high elevation and see colder lows than my palmtalkers closer to the coast works best.

Both gardens and the Royals saw many nights at 30-32 degrees. The more trunk they get the more they are able to make up with speedy growth in summer.

I just now wrapped them in old c7 bulbs with blankets around those - it creates a nice warm pocket around the crown but is there anything at all that I can do to protect the fronds? We have our official frost alert until 10am tomorrow am

After having 6” of snow dumped on them last February I don’t blink at frost alerts anymore more lol. 

2 hours ago, James B said:

After having 6” of snow dumped on them last February I don’t blink at frost alerts anymore more lol. 

Good lord - how long did it take for them to recover?

We had frost alerts here in Santa Paula., California ( about 45 minutes from you ). I live on a south facing hillside and it was 46 yesterday morning in my driveway and 42 when I got to the bottom of the hill. When I lived down in the flats I would get frost every now and then but lately , up here , it stays just a little warmer  . I did read that this week is going to be cold so a little effort could be made to protect those Royals. 

11 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

I just now wrapped them in old c7 bulbs with blankets around those - it creates a nice warm pocket around the crown but is there anything at all that I can do to protect the fronds? We have our official frost alert until 10am tomorrow am

Wrapping them tightly without a temp controller in these hot bulbs can burn the palm.   It just depends how you did this.

On 1/6/2024 at 10:04 AM, James B said:

His lows are a little lower than mine over the next 10 days. However his highs are a little higher. 
But his specific location could be in a cooler microclimate than what an app says.

I have 2: one is much larger than the other which was planted as a 15 and survived last winter. 
You can try using lights. But these temps are not to threaten your palms. You won’t be able to avoid leaf browning. That’s gonna to happen especially once the Santa Anna’s pick up. By July your palms will be full of green fronds again. Over time as they put on height they will brown less in winter. As the height, increased biomass and density of royal fronds increases as it matures. I was just at the San Diego zoo Thursday the 40 ft tall royals there were even  looking a little ratty compared to the summer months. 

Gawd I love visiting that zoo!. I spend as much time looking at the palms as I do the animals. My daughter has a pass and when we visit down there we all go and check out the jungle. Harry

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Wrapping them tightly without a temp controller in these hot bulbs can burn the palm.   It just depends how you did this.

It’s not too tight I don’t think - I stuck my hand in and it was warm.

I actually hit 26 for a short period last night (according to my thermometer) so glad I did it! 

Before I forget, @Jim in Los Altos, yesterday Monday 1-8-2024 at 6 am, my old school Coca Cola thermometer (which is NOT calibrated to the National Bureau of Standards) did match my digital hand held infrared thermometer at 31 deg. F.  I'm in the middle of Santa Clarita between the I-5 & SR-14 at 1304 ft. seeing 6 Flags Magic Mountain Park from this laptop. But all of my palm species are SEEDLINGS which I choose 6 deg. F warmer as my critical temperature.  Last week when the WEATHER GUESSERS SAID WE WOULD GET 2 WEEKS OF FREEZE CONDITIONS, my most sensitive species went into the garage where they stay at 50 deg. F.  I moved about 125 D. Decaryii's 1 gallon into the race car trailer with a 200 watt drop light hanging above these and it seems to raise the temperature 8 to 10 deg. F above what is outside.  On Sunday 1-7-2024, the winds were all day steady at close to 65 mph which would have snapped them all, but they all were protected being inside.  TOUGH BEING A HOBBYIST 

On 1/5/2024 at 11:44 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

What is your source for the 30° prediction? Every weather source I’ve checked shows your area (Agoura Hills) having a minimum of 38°F. I’m hundreds of miles north of you and my forecast lowest low is 38°F as well. 

So my roystonea see 36 at the lowest maybe a few days a year so far the last couple years and they get a hair burned . But they grow so fast mine are finally to the size were they grow through winter slowly though . My brother in law in Bakersfield has one that is slightly bigger than mine around 12 foot tall over all. This year he decided to not cover it for frost he sees as low as 32 and it’s been fine . They will grow out of whatever damage quickly when spring and summer come  anyways . Also they get to a point in size pretty quickly were it  just isn’t worth the effort to try and protect them . 

Crazy how in yard thermometers deviate from weather apps. But in CA this is possible due to the varying topography and microclimates in this state. 
 

We saw 35 the past two nights in my yard. Weather channel said 37 two nights ago and this morning said 40. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, James B said:

Crazy how in yard thermometers deviate from weather apps. But in CA this is possible due to the varying topography and microclimates in this state. 
 

We saw 35 the past two nights in my yard. Weather channel said 37 two nights ago and this morning said 40. 
 

 

Yah my low was reported as 30 yet there we have my 26 degree microclimate backyard

This is creating nice warmth w the lights but is there any point protecting the brown trunk?

 

Wow, 26?

It's interesting that Southern California had such a cold weather event, while up here, I'm finding this to be a pretty mild winter, compared to the last 2 years. I saw 26 and 27 in the last 2 winters and many 30s. This year my lowest was 31 (in October, strangely enough) but in this recent cold front, it only matched that, I haven't seen 30 or less this year. For my cold location, this is the least of my worries. 

You have those holiday dinos how about filling them with warm air and have the warm dinos hug the royals?

You know cold hardiness is often listed at 28 - how long does a tree need to dip below a given temperature to die off ?

On 1/6/2024 at 8:59 AM, Breaktheory said:

So I’m in Agoura north of Woodland Hills and it gets very cold at night - it always seems colder on my thermometer than the forecast. Last winter the royals got demolished with the cold and rain.

the leaves are starting to go a bit brown. Heat lamps? Is there anything I can do?

Is wrapping the crown in packing blankets covered in lights going to help with the fronds from radiant heat?

 

The best thing to do is get more of those dinosaurs there totally cool 

There can be pretty good variations in temperature even in your yard I have 21/2 acres and the areas heavily planted are warmer than other areas!! I have a 5 zone thermometer and it’s always amazed me at the variation!!

My area got colder than expected. Lowest temp I saw the other day was 32 and it was only at first daylight. Hope you're Royals look fine afterwards. 

My area got colder than expected. Lowest temp I saw the other day was 32 and it was only at first daylight. Hope you're Royals look fine afterwards. 

We hit 29 at 6am it’s starting to take a toll on the fronds  hopefully not as bad as last year’s freezing rain 

On 1/6/2024 at 9:44 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

What is your source for the 30° prediction? Every weather source I’ve checked shows your area (Agoura Hills) having a minimum of 38°F. I’m hundreds of miles north of you and my forecast lowest low is 38°F as well. 

Jim, does ice form in your area on cold nights?

8 hours ago, Than said:

Jim, does ice form in your area on cold nights?

Thanasis, Never any ice forming here but there will occasionally be light frost on rooftops and exposed lawns in my area. My garden has lots of canopy from large palms so that helps keep the ground level warmer. The last freeze here was seventeen years ago and there was a little bit of ice formed within the cups of some of my bromeliads but, fortunately, that didn’t harm any of them. 

Edited January 13, 20242 yr by Jim in Los Altos
Spelling