The two tone red of the chambeyronia macrocarpa

[happypalms]

5 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Here is my update for this older thread.  I purchased a 15 gallon C. hookeri, from a seed batch with very dark color.  I planted it in a better location than my previous attempts.  The palm took 21 months to grow and open a frond, which was plain green.

Meanwhile, seedlings from Floribunda, grown in my greenhouse,  throw a red frond every time, and the color gets darker each frond.

Therefore, I have concluded that it is just too cold in my garden, and that I am finished with this palm.     

 

Iam with you on that one, this one takes forever and a day to open up, it used to be red leaf now just green, and it has three spears it takes that long to open. Although temperature is not cold climate it’s the opposite stinking hot in summertime!

[sonoranfans]

On 12/18/2023 at 12:54 PM, Darold Petty said:

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

Ive never bought one not showing a red leaf but my daughter bought me a bare root C. Macrocarpa watermelon that didn't show color for  a couple years and then it was part reddish part green but quickly thereafter it went all rose color.  My other (3) flamethrower palms all bought as 5 gallon size showing some red on a new leaf.  I once saw a small nursery with around 30 chambeyronia macrocarpas grown from seed, 3/4 of them were showing some red or what I call transition color leaves(reddish).  At the time I had not shade so I didnt buy one but if I did I would have bought the one with the most red showing.  I do think there is genetic variation in the red ones.  Some are just more stunning than others.  I have two hookeri's and one is a spectacular red and the other is a nice red but not the same by a good margin.  The red color does also depend on sun exposure and viewing position(sun at the back of observer or palm between observer and the sun.  In low light epidermal layer reflection dominates the color as light passing further into the leaf is all absorbed.  In high light the optical density is not enough to stop light from returning from the inner leaf or transiting the leaf in transmission.  A somewhat analgous situation is in night photos the way they show enhanced white on lighter color palms.  The light you see is dominated by surface reflection since the dimness(vs sun) means almost no light transits chlorophyll containing parts of the leaf and survives for the observer to view.  I'd look for a red chamby if I were you.  Mine always look better in the cool winters, happier and more colorful.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks for the explanation, Tom !   

[sonoranfans]

these two pics are 1 minute apart.  first one is sun at the back, dark red as this p[alms has lots of anthocyanin.  Second one shows transmitted light through the same leaf a minute later, like fire, not so dark.  High sun intensity led to good intensity tramsmitting the leaf when compared with the first one a reflection which showed lots of deep red but low intensity.  The back reflectance of light was low compared with the transmitted light coming through this leaf. 

first sun at the back of observer:

second with the palm between the sun and the observer showing some transmitted light, that is actually a different color.

then minutes later with less cloud cover flame on!

[Foggy Paul]

@Darold Petty here is that hookeri you gifted me, probably a year and a half ago. It just threw its second leaf since being planted. All the leaves it had when you gave it to me succumbed to K deficiency, and the first new leaf was attacked by aphids while I was on vacation. This new leaf has faint red tinges so I have hope. Still, it’s so slow and this is a very visible spot in the garden, so I’m not sure it’s a keeper either. 
 

Incidentally, I’ve been watching Weather Underground closely during our cold spell and the station closest to your house has been consistently 3 degrees warmer than my new weather station reports. We bottomed out at 36.6 Thursday morning.

 

[Darold Petty]

Paul, I still believe that you have a better microclimate than I, your plants and the short period of your garden are the evidence ! 

[happypalms]

Cham hookeri for a bit of colour comparison, in quite strong light.