Warming Chicago temps

[Arecaceus]

4 hours ago, westfork said:

Tallgrass prairie ecosystem with hundreds of species adapted to these temperatures and fire.  Also some more western species like yucca glauca and some cactus.  Bur oak forests are in areas that were less prone to fire along with the typical oak forest understory flora.  Bur oaks are tough, they also crept out onto the prairies to form savannahs - From a seedling they may be only two inches tall the first growing season but the taproot has already extended down several feet.  Which is necessary since the top four feet of soil in a prairie is packed with roots. 

Continental climates are subject to rapid change.  There is an old saying that there is nothing to stop weather fronts between the Gulf of Mexico and the Arctic Circle except for a few barbed wire fences.

It's amazing how species can adapt and survive in that environment. And that old saying is pretty true. Arctic cold and Carribean heat can travel from Canada to the Gulf and the other way around without anything holding it back.

[ChicagoPalma]

5 hours ago, westfork said:

Tallgrass prairie ecosystem with hundreds of species adapted to these temperatures and fire.  Also some more western species like yucca glauca and some cactus.  Bur oak forests are in areas that were less prone to fire along with the typical oak forest understory flora.  Bur oaks are tough, they also crept out onto the prairies to form savannahs - From a seedling they may be only two inches tall the first growing season but the taproot has already extended down several feet.  Which is necessary since the top four feet of soil in a prairie is packed with roots. 

Continental climates are subject to rapid change.  There is an old saying that there is nothing to stop weather fronts between the Gulf of Mexico and the Arctic Circle except for a few barbed wire fences.

just realized where you are located, and it seems like you might be living in my zone or a colder zone than me! Also we pretty much have the same plants as you guys do just more tropical bulbs like canna and elephant ears that become naturalized around the area.

[westfork]

2 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

just realized where you are located, and it seems like you might be living in my zone or a colder zone than me! Also we pretty much have the same plants as you guys do just more tropical bulbs like canna and elephant ears that become naturalized around the area.

About a zone colder on the hardiness map (or a half zone if you are not in the Chicago heat island) and a zone or two hotter on the heat zone map, but much less humid and with dry winters.  Our climate is not tempered by having large bodies of water nearby like you.  But the dry winters really help with overwintering many plant species.  We can grow plants here that are iffy just a bit to the east in central Iowa.  That is where the saying about climate zones "A Denver 5 is a Michigan 7" applies.  

[ChicagoPalma]

7 hours ago, westfork said:

About a zone colder on the hardiness map (or a half zone if you are not in the Chicago heat island) and a zone or two hotter on the heat zone map, but much less humid and with dry winters.  Our climate is not tempered by having large bodies of water nearby like you.  But the dry winters really help with overwintering many plant species.  We can grow plants here that are iffy just a bit to the east in central Iowa.  That is where the saying about climate zones "A Denver 5 is a Michigan 7" applies.  

I’m in the Chicago heat island since I live in a more major populated area, so where I live is usually a zone 6a/6b but our winters can always be a zone 5b and rarely a 5a. Also just like your climate, we have no legitimate spring just fast warming temps.

[Las Palmas Norte]

18 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

... Arctic cold and Carribean heat can travel from Canada to the Gulf and the other way around without anything holding it back.

That is not applicable in the west, especially along the Pacific region. I would think even other western Canadian provinces are unaffected by the Caribbean weather patterns.

[Arecaceus]

15 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

That is not applicable in the west, especially along the Pacific region. I would think even other western Canadian provinces are unaffected by the Caribbean weather patterns.

I know. I was only refering to the continental central regions of North America as this was the subject. I myself live in the PNW equivalent of Europe.

[ChicagoPalma]

Just snowed here in Chicago! Hate it when the weather does that, and because we have no legitimate spring, this happens.

[JLM]

11 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Just snowed here in Chicago! Hate it when the weather does that, and because we have no legitimate spring, this happens.

Your spring has been kinda wonky, but you are experiencing spring. Snow can happen in spring, just as high temperatures can too. Shoot, we were having temperatures in the upper 80's back in February down here, which caused a string of broken records. Remember that Spring is the transition between winter and summer, so theoretically you can expect bits of both seasons during this time period. This is just one way to look at it though.

I actually woke up to 48F this morning down here, it kinda shocked me when i opened the door. We havent seen a temperature that low in weeks. Its normal to get these cool snaps in April though.

[Little Tex]

17 minutes ago, JLM said:

Your spring has been kinda wonky, but you are experiencing spring. Snow can happen in spring, just as high temperatures can too. Shoot, we were having temperatures in the upper 80's back in February down here, which caused a string of broken records. Remember that Spring is the transition between winter and summer, so theoretically you can expect bits of both seasons during this time period. This is just one way to look at it though.

I actually woke up to 48F this morning down here, it kinda shocked me when i opened the door. We havent seen a temperature that low in weeks. Its normal to get these cool snaps in April though.

yeah its 53 here

[ChicagoPalma]

42 minutes ago, JLM said:

Your spring has been kinda wonky, but you are experiencing spring. Snow can happen in spring, just as high temperatures can too. Shoot, we were having temperatures in the upper 80's back in February down here, which caused a string of broken records. Remember that Spring is the transition between winter and summer, so theoretically you can expect bits of both seasons during this time period. This is just one way to look at it though.

I actually woke up to 48F this morning down here, it kinda shocked me when i opened the door. We havent seen a temperature that low in weeks. Its normal to get these cool snaps in April though.

Yes I know it happens but we have no real spring where it slowly moves to nicer weather. It only needed to take like a day to rise from a high of 40s one day to a high of 85 the next day., then it can drop to a high of 30 then next exact day.

[ChicagoPalma]

It is a bit of a wonky spring but i've seen snow in june once and temperatures in teens in early may/late april. But that was during our 5a winter in 2016, when a couple of our spring bulbs died and rotted from the winter.

[ChicagoPalma]

Also a little fun fact, the cherry tree my parents planted in may last year is flowering, its first year in the ground and it went through the winter like a champ, and i believe they are hardy to zone 7.

[Sabal King]

Any updates on the Sabals you had mentioned thriving in Chicago area?  Ours are pushing their second full palmate frond for the year so far, and curious how your area is doing.  Sounded like a lot of promise given what you had mentioned.

[ChicagoPalma]

1 minute ago, Sabal King said:

Any updates on the Sabals you had mentioned thriving in Chicago area?  Ours are pushing their second full palmate frond for the year so far, and curious how your area is doing.  Sounded like a lot of promise given what you had mentioned.

The winter was mild this year and they did well, there are not many in chicago area since the 2016 5a winter, but yeah in the suburbs you can probably find a sabal minor if you look hard enough.

[ChicagoPalma]

I might plant some sabal minors this year so that will be nice to see how they like the chicago weather.

[JLM]

7 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Yes I know it happens but we have no real spring where it slowly moves to nicer weather. It only needed to take like a day to rise from a high of 40s one day to a high of 85 the next day., then it can drop to a high of 30 then next exact day.

What you are experiencing IS Spring. Spring will come with the lower temps and the higher temps. In Spring, you can have all 4 seasons in a single week, its because the atmosphere is transitioning to that summertime pattern, so naturally it will be a mix of hot and cold. You are experiencing a true spring, this definition may be changing a little, but you are having a true spring even though it may not be what you remember as a true spring.

For me, ive been in Florida for 6 years, and it hasnt changed much since ive been down here. Spring is a time of unsettled weather, with cold fronts dropping our temperatures, and then the temperature rise quickly in between said fronts. Its the same up north, it just comes at a slightly later time and at a different magnitude.

[Little Tex]

9 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

The winter was mild this year and they did well, there are not many in chicago area since the 2016 5a winter, but yeah in the suburbs you can probably find a sabal minor if you look hard enough.

I doubt it, its hard enough to find them in OKC metro

[Quasarecho]

On 4/14/2023 at 3:32 PM, Hortulanus said:

Quite interesting! That's the quirk of many continental climates. Extreme winters and summers and usually no true autumn or spring. I wonder what kind of native plants you have that can survive those conditions especially with the deep ground freezes.

Lots of deciduous trees, especially Oak and Elm. Plenty of wetland prairies. Lots of concrete. 

[jwitt]

13 hours ago, Quasarecho said:

Lots of deciduous trees, especially Oak and Elm. Plenty of wetland prairies. Lots of concrete. 

Watching a video showing abandoned property in Gary Indiana was quite telling. 

Naturalized/ing yucca on many properties.   So there is that.....

[Quasarecho]

2 hours ago, jwitt said:

Watching a video showing abandoned property in Gary Indiana was quite telling. 

Naturalized/ing yucca on many properties.   So there is that.....

I don't know what to say about Gary. Pure despair. It would be awesome to see that turned around but won't happen in my lifetime. Lots of Ailanthus growing there too (palm of the midwest when young😁). Adam's Needle Yucca is probably what is naturalized there. It grows everywhere here in the midwest.

[Little Tex]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:13 AM, ChicagoPalma said:

Palm tree looks like it kicked the bucket

well then why did you take it out of protection in february?

 

[ChicagoPalma]

Because it was warm that day and i wanted to air it out. Also that was the time before the palm spear pulled, and either way if it wasn't for the giant rain showers that hit in march, we would have a successful new spear.

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

...if it wasn't for the giant rain showers that hit in march, we would have a successful new spear.

So the rain killed your palm. Interesting.

[ChicagoPalma]

Just now, Las Palmas Norte said:

So the rain killed your palm. Interesting.

Tornadoes, hail, heavy rain around exposed trunk and roots, spear area still open to rain.

[ChicagoPalma]

Just now, ChicagoPalma said:

Tornadoes, hail, heavy rain around exposed trunk and roots, spear area still open to rain.

We also have a tornado watch right now and we have two tornadoes in Illinois in northern area heading toward northeast Illinois which is Chicago area.

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 minute ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Tornadoes, hail, heavy rain around exposed trunk and roots, spear area still open to rain.

Nasty. Would the structure over your palm have survived the tornados ?

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

We also have a tornado watch right now and we have two tornadoes in Illinois in northern area heading toward northeast Illinois which is Chicago area.

We are in the midst of a very windy and cool rainy day here. Winds gusting to 55mph on occasion. Rain heavy at times. Yuck.

Stay safe out your way @ChicagoPalma

[ChicagoPalma]

Just now, Las Palmas Norte said:

We are in the midst of a very windy and cool rainy day here. Winds gusting to 55mph on occasion. Rain heavy at times. Yuck.

Stay safe out your way @ChicagoPalma

It’s like 77 F here right now and there are like two tornadoes heading our way.

[JLM]

2 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Tornadoes, hail, heavy rain around exposed trunk and roots, spear area still open to rain.

There have been no tornadoes in Cook County this year, assuming you are in Cook County. There has only been 1 tornado this year within what is probably considered the Chicago metro area, and it was an EF1. If that tornado had hit you, you wouldve had worse issues than your palm being damaged. 

In terms of wind and hail, theres been plenty of that. Heavy rainfall too. You could have probably figured out a way to cover the palm so it wouldnt have been damaged from any of these. Wind is a little harder to manage though. 

After these events, did you dry out the hole? If not, then you cant really blame it on the weather. Use a vacuum to pull the water out if you have to. Do you have pictures of this palm posted in another thread?

[Little Tex]

2 hours ago, JLM said:

There have been no tornadoes in Cook County this year, assuming you are in Cook County. There has only been 1 tornado this year within what is probably considered the Chicago metro area, and it was an EF1. If that tornado had hit you, you wouldve had worse issues than your palm being damaged. 

In terms of wind and hail, theres been plenty of that. Heavy rainfall too. You could have probably figured out a way to cover the palm so it wouldnt have been damaged from any of these. Wind is a little harder to manage though. 

After these events, did you dry out the hole? If not, then you cant really blame it on the weather. Use a vacuum to pull the water out if you have to. Do you have pictures of this palm posted in another thread?

Wise words of the weather sensei

[ChicagoPalma]

33 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Wise words of the weather sensei

Lol, but no I delete my photos because it died a while ago and I removed it so I just kinda delete some photos and because I don’t upgrade my iCloud storage🥲

[Arecaceus]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:40 AM, Quasarecho said:

Lots of deciduous trees, especially Oak and Elm. Plenty of wetland prairies. Lots of concrete. 

It's interesting because in Europe I connect deciduous with rather milder areas. And the winter cold continental areas with pines and firs and such. Doesn't mean anything but still interesting. And lots of grey trees over there LOL. 😂 But in all honesty it looks like a pretty, diverse and vivid nature.

[westfork]

42 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

It's interesting because in Europe I connect deciduous with rather milder areas. And the winter cold continental areas with pines and firs and such. Doesn't mean anything but still interesting. And lots of grey trees over there LOL. 😂 But in all honesty it looks like a pretty, diverse and vivid nature.

Out in our area the only native conifers were the lowly Eastern Redcedar and to the west the Rocky Mountain form of the Ponderosa Pine.  The huge grass fires in the prairies/plains made short work of all but the most fire resistant bur oaks, etc.   Native grasses that can grow well over six feet tall explode when burning, makes a brome grass fire look like nothing.  I pulled the original surveyors' records from a generation before settlement while helping with a local history book.  In most of our county there were absolutely no trees or shrubs except for a scattering of willows in a marshy area.

[ChicagoPalma]

5 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

It's interesting because in Europe I connect deciduous with rather milder areas. And the winter cold continental areas with pines and firs and such. Doesn't mean anything but still interesting. And lots of grey trees over there LOL. 😂 But in all honesty it looks like a pretty, diverse and vivid nature.

Once it is summer the yuccas look like they grow on steroids and everything becomes over grown

Edited April 22, 2023 by ChicagoPalma

[ChicagoPalma]

It just hailed and snowed today for 30 minutes.

[teddytn]

1 hour ago, ChicagoPalma said:

It just hailed and snowed today for 30 minutes.

No bueno

[Las Palmas Norte]

75°F tomorrow ?

[JLM]

1 hour ago, ChicagoPalma said:

It just hailed and snowed today for 30 minutes.

I’ve never experienced graupel before, I’ve heard it’s like dippin dots. Actually, I haven’t seen ANY frozen precip since 2018.

During spring time, you need to get use to pulling protection off palms then putting it back over them. I do this all winter because we have times of highs in the 60s and 70s, followed by a cold front then freezing temperatures. If I lived in Chicago, there’d be no way in hell I would pull protection methods in February, even if it was warm enough. The good thing is that now you know this, so you probably won’t do it to the next palm.

[ChicagoPalma]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:31 PM, JLM said:

I’ve never experienced graupel before, I’ve heard it’s like dippin dots. Actually, I haven’t seen ANY frozen precip since 2018.

During spring time, you need to get use to pulling protection off palms then putting it back over them. I do this all winter because we have times of highs in the 60s and 70s, followed by a cold front then freezing temperatures. If I lived in Chicago, there’d be no way in hell I would pull protection methods in February, even if it was warm enough. The good thing is that now you know this, so you probably won’t do it to the next palm.

Thing is we don’t usually get hail or snow that late in april.

[Arecaceus]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:48 PM, westfork said:

Out in our area the only native conifers were the lowly Eastern Redcedar and to the west the Rocky Mountain form of the Ponderosa Pine.  The huge grass fires in the prairies/plains made short work of all but the most fire resistant bur oaks, etc.   Native grasses that can grow well over six feet tall explode when burning, makes a brome grass fire look like nothing.  I pulled the original surveyors' records from a generation before settlement while helping with a local history book.  In most of our county there were absolutely no trees or shrubs except for a scattering of willows in a marshy area.

Wow I love stories like those. Doing local research on your own. So with explode do you mean that those grasses are pyrophytes?