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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


Sabal King

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Walked around the yard and checked out all the minors that have been hanging in the breeze since this started. Quite a bit that have burned leaves. Some looking shriveled. We did a night with a low of -4 and a high of 4, then a low of -2 and a high of 10. Two more days and nights that it hasn’t gone above freezing. Anything that survived in any condition I’ll consider a success. I’ve talked to people that have lived here their whole lives and never saw these temps. Still have potential for worse temps and weather to come before winter is over. No telling what another round of this will do. I haven’t looked at anything that’s been covered. Could be complete massacre. 

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44 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Driving around town today and surprisingly none of the washies or dates that I've passed are showing any visible burn. They all look the same as they did prior to this cold front

I’ve gotten down to the same temps as you and my washies were showing frond damage two days ago. 

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7 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I’ve gotten down to the same temps as you and my washies were showing frond damage two days ago. 

I should have time to get some pics. Maybe closer inspection will show burn but driving past they looked good

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1 minute ago, DAVEinMB said:

I should have time to get some pics. Maybe closer inspection will show burn but driving past they looked good

Ok cool, I’ll post pics of mine later today.

 

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After lows of 13, 16, and 18

first two robustas unprotected 
the protected robusta stump was really warm when I checked on it today. It had a frost cloth over the spear, a thin cloth bag over that, Christmas lights, a lawn mower bag over that and wrapped in a blanket. 
 

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Crunchy Livestonia 

fried Sylvester palm

unfazed pindo palm nice and green

amd supposedly a filifera but with the burn, I’m thinking it may be a filibusta 

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@Jtee picture time. I feel like this is a decent sample size. 

I can't say what the actual low was in city limits but I recorded 13F just west of the waterway

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21 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Jtee picture time. I feel like this is a decent sample size. 

I can't say what the actual low was in city limits but I recorded 13F just west of the waterway

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Given the circumstances all of those palms look really good. 

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@Jtee and for comparison purposes here are some pics from around my yard.

- mules - very little to no burn

- CIDP and Sylvester - no burn

l. Decora - no burn

l. Chinensis - very little to no burn

- queen - slight burn

- washy - has the most visible burn of the bunch. (There are a few washies in my neighborhood that didn't burn tho)

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3 nights in the low twenties did in the perennials like Brugmansia and Odontonema, of course but the palms look OK so far. I covered only the Rhapis, but mule, Chamaerops and Livistona (below) were left to fend for themselves.

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So far, so good.

The Rhapidophyllum was idly inspecting its nails through the whole crisis.

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Initial assessment of palms planted on my property:

Species Minimum Temperature Damage Sustained Protection Notes            Status Date
Brahea armata 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately seven years old.  Experienced spear pull during freeze in February 2021 and February 2022. 12/26/2022
Brahea armata 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaedorea radicalis  17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaedorea radicalis  17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaerops humilis var. humilis 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old.  Experienced spear pull in February 2022. 12/26/2022
Livistona decora 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Severe frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Livistona chinensis 17F (-8.3C) Light frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Nannorrhops ritchieana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately eight years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Phoenix dactylifera 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Severe frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Rhapis excelsa 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately four years old.  All stems in clump expierenced spear pull. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Approximately eight years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Approximately four years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Approximately four years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Approximately four years old.  Experienced spear pull in February 2022. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old.   12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old.   Survived freeze in February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old.  Spear pull on one of two stems in clump. 12/26/2022
Sabal etonia 'Miamiensis' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Less than one year old. 12/26/2022
Sabal mexicana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Juvenile.  Approximately five years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal mexicana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Approximately five years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 'Tamaulipas San Carlos' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal palmetto 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately ten years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 with minimal frond damage, and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal uresana 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Trachycarpus fortunei 17F (-8.3C) No damage Frost cloth. Approximately thirteen years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 with spear pull, and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately six years old.  Survived freeze in  February 2022 with minimal frond damage. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. None. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia filifera 'Coachella' 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia filifera 'Coachella' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. None. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia robusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia robusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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On 12/25/2022 at 5:32 AM, Foxpalms said:

Yes for most days of the year the weather in South Texas is much better than in London, however the bad freezes in southern Texas every 10-20 years are worse than the bad freezes here, except maybe South padre Island they saw similar lows. 25c/77f sounds about right for the long term July high here but in recent years it's been higher than that, this summer it was around 82f for July and August. We unfortunately aren't in the 70s in December like southern Texas, but it takes a very cold air mass for central London to go below freezing, so there was no frost before the freeze since Jan 6th last winter. Some warm microclimates in central London before this freeze haven't had a frost since 2018. This is also the reason a London 9b or 10a is very different to a Texas 10a since we may not be in the 70s in the winter but we are in the 50s during the day and 40s at night so whilst things such as howea forsteriana, archontophoenix, Rhopalostylis and chamedorea do well we obviously don't have enough heat for foxtails ect to survive the winter.  About the warmest in winter it gets here is the 60s a few days. By March though we usually have a few days in the 70s. It's not really surprising it's cooler here since we are 1725 miles futher north but it helps having the Mediterranean futher south and the Sahara desert, so we can get plenty of warm dry days when the winds are coming from the south.

Not unusual for December in Texas to be much warmer than peak summer in London. December 2021 in Brownsville had an average high of 82F and average low of 64.4F. In the long term, the southern half of Texas is more like northern and central Florida than anywhere else. San Antonio and Houston roughly line up with Tallahassee and Jacksonville respectively and McAllen and Brownsville are more or less like Orlando and Tampa. The idea that a freeze every 10 years "kills all of the palms" is completely false and the rhetoric of "only sabal palms grow in Texas" is getting a bit hyperbolic lol. 

Here are some ground photos of what far southern TX actually looks like 

 

 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Not unusual for December in Texas to be much warmer than peak summer in London. December 2021 in Brownsville had an average high of 82F and average low of 64.4F. In the long term, the southern half of Texas is more like northern and central Florida than anywhere else. San Antonio and Houston roughly line up with Tallahassee and Jacksonville respectively and McAllen and Brownsville are more or less like Orlando and Tampa. The idea that a freeze every 10 years "kills all of the palms" is completely false and the rhetoric of "only sabal palms grow in Texas" is getting a bit hyperbolic lol. 

Here are some ground photos of what far southern TX actually looks like 

 

 

When I'm talking about the freeze every 10-20 years I don't think it kills all the palms, especially in southern Texas except maybe coconuts it can be colder than here though. Some very good microclimate parts of London couldn't have gone below 30f during the freeze, since cannas, bougainvillea, norfolk island pines and howea forsteriana were undamaged. There are lots of nice palms such as royals in southern Texas that likely won't be able to survive in the ground here because it's too cool in the winter. Potted royal palms grow nicely in the summer here though. Texas is a much better climate for palms for most of the year untill those few days of cold from Canada. I'm sure there are people here that also still think that Trachycarpus are the only palm hardy in the UK!

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On 12/24/2022 at 2:18 AM, NBTX11 said:

It looks great.  It came through the Feb 2021 freeze fairly easily.  I'm not even expecting it to burn from this year's freeze.  I was slightly worried about my smaller Filifera, so I covered them with buckets. 

What people don't understand about South Texas is, we have had zero freezes up until yesterday, and next week it will back up to 75-77 degrees, around 25C, which is probably mid July weather in London.  And that's not abnormal, it's that warm or warmer every December and January for stretches.  

I am definitely envious of your warmth in general and the good recovery you get between any cold events. Although ultimately daytime warmup becomes somewhat irrelevant if everything is just getting nuked every couple of years by 10-15F lows. I think you actually saw 8F back in 2021? And then about 15F this year? That is pretty bad.

Most of London saw it's coldest night in 31 years since 1991, but the mildest areas still didn't go below -2C / 28F at the worst. -1.7C / 29F near the natural history museum. Same with a lot of the south coast areas. They might not get the same annual heat or post-freeze recovery, but they also don't get palm killing temperatures and severe deep convective freezes.

That is why London is full of CIDP's. Big, lush crowns as well. Some may have been damaged a bit by the freeze, but most in central areas won't have any damage. A lack of intermittent winter heat is a small price to pay for not having severe, palm killing lows. I have seen you post Washingtonia around New Braunfels, but are there any CIDP surviving longer term there?

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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33 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

That is why London is full of CIDP's. Big, lush crowns as well. Some may have been damaged a bit by the freeze, but most in central areas won't have any damage. A lack of intermittent winter heat is a small price to pay for not having severe, palm killing lows. I have seen you post Washingtonia around New Braunfels, but are there any CIDP surviving longer term there?

CIDP is bulletproof to cold in the southern third of Texas (roughly along and south of I-10, including New Braunfels). CIDP survived single digit temperatures in Houston during the 80s (all time record lows). The only reason you don't see large palms around much anymore is because lethal bronzing (CONUS origin in deep south Texas) arrived in the 2000s and killed off most mature palms, they basically disappeared within a decade.  The yonger new plantings don't seem to decline until they get larger (or possibly the disease isn't as prevalent anymore). You can occassionally find a straggler survivor here and there and in some pockets along the coast which seem to be spared (although it seems to be sweeping through Galveston now which held out much longer than Houston). 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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5 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Jtee picture time. I feel like this is a decent sample size. 

I can't say what the actual low was in city limits but I recorded 13F just west of the waterway

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I'm glad the washingtonias and CIDPs are alright in Myrtle Beach, though the CIDP frond looks slightly discolored, I've noticed the same on a CIDP in a yard near me.

It normally looks deep green but now looks duller green(but hopefully still alive), amazingly a yard with 3 queen palms are still mostly green😲, they are growing under willow oaks but I thought temps under 20 nuked them,(I expected to see them completely defoliated), it most have been the extremely dry nature of this cold.

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Both of my juvenile Chamaedorea radicalis palms look like nothing happened.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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6 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I am definitely envious of your warmth in general and the good recovery you get between any cold events. Although ultimately daytime warmup becomes somewhat irrelevant if everything is just getting nuked every couple of years by 10-15F lows. I think you actually saw 8F back in 2021? And then about 15F this year? That is pretty bad.

Most of London saw it's coldest night in 31 years since 1991, but the mildest areas still didn't go below -2C / 28F at the worst. -1.7C / 29F near the natural history museum. Same with a lot of the south coast areas. They might not get the same annual heat or post-freeze recovery, but they also don't get palm killing temperatures and severe deep convective freezes.

That is why London is full of CIDP's. Big, lush crowns as well. Some may have been damaged a bit by the freeze, but most in central areas won't have any damage. A lack of intermittent winter heat is a small price to pay for not having severe, palm killing lows. I have seen you post Washingtonia around New Braunfels, but are there any CIDP surviving longer term there?

Short answer to your question about CIDP, yes CIDP are fully hardy in New Braunfels. They defoliate completely during severe freezes, but always come back. This includes the Feb 21 freeze. They have big lush crowns, unless it was the year after a big freeze. In that case it take a year or year and a half to regain the lush crown. There are CIDP in NB that have been in existence since before 1980.  I expect some to burn again from the recent 16 degree low but they won’t die. Between 1990 - 2021 it was rare to drop below 20F, with many winters not dropping below 25-30F. 
 

I agree with the basic premise that they’re fully hardy to at least I-10 (I’m 12 miles north of I-10). Possibly central Austin also but I’m less certain about that. There is a small pocket of zone 9a in Austin.  Most people are not aware that Austin is a very large city. 

Edited by NBTX11
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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On 12/26/2022 at 2:51 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Initial assessment of palms planted on my property:

Species Minimum Temperature Damage Sustained Protection Notes            Status Date
Brahea armata 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately seven years old.  Experienced spear pull during freeze in February 2021 and February 2022. 12/26/2022
Brahea armata 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaedorea radicalis  17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaedorea radicalis  17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Chamaerops humilis var. humilis 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old.  Experienced spear pull in February 2022. 12/26/2022
Livistona decora 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Severe frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Livistona chinensis 17F (-8.3C) Light frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Nannorrhops ritchieana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately eight years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Phoenix dactylifera 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Severe frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Rhapis excelsa 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately four years old.  All stems in clump expierenced spear pull. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Approximately eight years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Approximately four years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Green' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Approximately four years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Approximately four years old.  Experienced spear pull in February 2022. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old.   12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old.   Survived freeze in February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Serenoa repens 'Silver' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. No frond damage. Frost cloth. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old.  Spear pull on one of two stems in clump. 12/26/2022
Sabal etonia 'Miamiensis' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Less than one year old. 12/26/2022
Sabal mexicana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Juvenile.  Approximately five years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal mexicana 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately seven years old.  Survived freeze in February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. None. Approximately five years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately five years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal minor 'Tamaulipas San Carlos' 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Sabal palmetto 17F (-8.3C) No damage. Frost cloth. Approximately ten years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 with minimal frond damage, and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Sabal uresana 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Strap leaf seedling.  Approximately three years old. 12/26/2022
Trachycarpus fortunei 17F (-8.3C) No damage Frost cloth. Approximately thirteen years old.  Survived freeze in February 2021 with spear pull, and February 2022 with no damage. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately six years old.  Survived freeze in  February 2022 with minimal frond damage. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Frost cloth. Approximately four years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia x filibusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. None. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia filifera 'Coachella' 17F (-8.3C) Minimal frond damage. Community pot. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia filifera 'Coachella' 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. None. Juvenile.  Less than two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia robusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022
Washingtonia robusta 17F (-8.3C) Spear pull. Complete defoliation. Community pot. Juvenile.  Approximately two years old. 12/26/2022

So, whats the status of the neighbors foxtail palms?

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@Allen I am quite surprised with the shape of the Birminghams! The worst of yours looks like my blackburniana currently. Record cold here in 33 yrs (1989). 

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On 12/26/2022 at 5:13 PM, UK_Palms said:

I am definitely envious of your warmth in general

And I would definitely appreciate the UK's oceanic moderation (or other protecting factors) regarding winter deviation.

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.... I think I need to invest in more Sylvesters 🤔

Passed by another one today with around 8 foot of trunk that looked unfazed

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10 hours ago, __nevii said:

And the worst part is that there is still January and February left to go...

Wouldn’t worry about that. Pretty good chance there will not be a worse freeze in Jan or Feb. 

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4 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Wouldn’t worry about that. Pretty good chance there will not be a worse freeze in Jan or Feb. 

Yea for us the worst absolute low in 25 years so not too likely although Jan is typically the coldest

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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On 12/26/2022 at 5:13 PM, UK_Palms said:

I am definitely envious of your warmth in general and the good recovery you get between any cold events. 

Yes, even though I do complain about the arctic outbursts we are subject to here on the coast at 27.7 degrees latitude, and those outbursts are problematic for the tropicals I grow, overall as far as human comfort throughout the winter months the climate is very agreeable here.  You can put up with a handful of cold days through the winter in exchange for beautiful weather for the rest of it.

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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46 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

.... I think I need to invest in more Sylvesters 🤔

Passed by another one today with around 8 foot of trunk that looked unfazed

What’s the best way to get true Sylvester’s? Buy some dates at the store? 

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7 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Yes, even though I do complain about the arctic outbursts we are subject to here on the coast at 27.7 degrees latitude, and those outbursts are problematic for the tropicals I grow, overall as far as human comfort throughout the winter months the climate is very agreeable here.  You can put up with a handful of cold days through the winter in exchange for beautiful weather for the rest of it.

Being a Chicago native, and going to school up in the Michigan UP for a few years, being in North Texas is great.  Would I never like winter?  100%, but like you said and said it so well... the little bit of garbage we deal with (you less than me) is NOTHING compared to most of the country.

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Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

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1 minute ago, tlow said:

Being a Chicago native, and going to school up in the Michigan UP for a few years, being in North Texas is great.  Would I never like winter?  100%, but like you said and said it so well... the little bit of garbage we deal with (you less than me) is NOTHING compared to most of the country.

I can attest to that. Grew up in New England, and almost 20 years of that in far northern New England. The brief cold snaps are easy to deal with. For us in SC it seems once we get through the first two weeks of January the sailing is pretty smooth from there on out. The days are noticeable warmer and longer.

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23 minutes ago, tlow said:

Being a Chicago native, and going to school up in the Michigan UP for a few years, being in North Texas is great.  Would I never like winter?  100%, but like you said and said it so well... the little bit of garbage we deal with (you less than me) is NOTHING compared to most of the country.

Wow I also went to school in the UP. This is about as far away from that as I could get. 

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1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

Wow I also went to school in the UP. This is about as far away from that as I could get. 

 I don't hear that everyday... where?  I was at LSSU in Sault Ste. Marie... colder than could be.....

Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

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Back to the UK vs S Texas debate/ discussion call me a skeptic. I’m a natural skeptic, you have to show me. I’m sure they have a great, mild oceanic climate, but to date no one has shown me even one towering CIDP or Washingtonia Robusta in London. None. Sure I’ve seen large CIDP, but to me it’s obvious that they aren’t more than 30 or 40 years old. Where are the 50-100 year old CIDP and Robusta?  Are we to believe that no one planted any palms back then?  No one was interested in palms back then?  Where are they?  Even with the 2021 freeze we can provide video evidence of 60 or 70 foot pencil thin Washingtonia Robusta in downtown San Antonio TX that survived the freezes. Where are they in the UK?  I haven’t seen any comparable palms and I’ve looked. Don’t get me wrong there are impressive palms just not as impressive. Does the oceanic climate keep them smaller?  I guess that could be one explanation. This is not meant to belittle anyone’s climate only for discussion purposes. Why don’t we see LA or RGV, or even downtown San Antonio level Washingtonia towering over the skyline?

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18 minutes ago, tlow said:

 I don't hear that everyday... where?  I was at LSSU in Sault Ste. Marie... colder than could be.....

I went to NMU in Marquette MI. Believe we played LSSU in hockey. I’ve been to the Sault before. 

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50 minutes ago, RJ said:

What’s the best way to get true Sylvester’s? Buy some dates at the store? 

Hmm, Im guessing that would probably be the best way but i really don't know. with that said I'm not sure these aren't crossed with something else. They're being sold locally as Sylvesters and look to be true. 

The first pic isn't great but it's at a residence so I tried to get the palm without being a weirdo taking pics of someone's house haha. The other 2 pics are from a hotel about a half mile from the first pic. Any Phoenix experts wanna weigh in? 😁

20221228_112619.jpg

20221228_113440.jpg

20221228_113517.jpg

Edited by DAVEinMB
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55 minutes ago, RJ said:

What’s the best way to get true Sylvester’s? Buy some dates at the store? 

Do they even sell sylvester dates at the store? As far as I know they're all from dactylifera, at least that I've seen, varieties like medjool, zahidi, deglet noor are all from dactylifera.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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