Hello all, it’s been a long time since I’ve posted here and too long away from the palm community. Life has taken me far away from palms to the snowy mountains of Salt Lake City, UT, but I recently got the chance to visit what I believe to be the northernmost naturally occurring Washingtonia filifera grove near Moapa, NV and thought I’d share! 

First, about the area: Moapa Nevada is around an hour or so north of Las Vegas and less than an hour south of the Utah border, which is the northernmost extent of the Mojave desert ecoregion. The Moapa valley is famous for it’s warm springs and the local Indigenous culture for which the area is named. 

As with other Washingtonia groves in the Mojave, the palms themselves can be found growing along warm, spring fed streams which, in this area feed a larger wetland complex that is the subject of local conservation efforts.

Sadly, the conservation managers consider the Washingtonia a nuisance, and, despite obvious ecological similarities to other Washingtonia oases in the Mojave as well as local indigenous uses of the palms which pre-date any white settlement in the area, do not officially consider the palms “native” and thus remove them in many places along the watershed. 

I obviously can’t attest to how the first palm was brought to the valley but there are at least a half dozen individual groves with hundreds of palms each, all displaying great age along a several mile stretch of the river. The only grove I got pictures from is in a highly disturbed state near the parking lot/picnic area near the entrance to the refuge (note the silly wagon and fence!),  but this grove contains many 60’+ plants (photo with myself in it for scale). Apparently the conservation managers removed many of the largest palms from the valley several years ago “to prevent wildfires” 

From this area I also got a picture of several palms naturalizing in drier conditions away from the main water sources (yes that is snow way up on the mountains in the background) as well as a zoomed in shot of some palms peeking out of the riverine forest further downstream, where there were even healthier stands of larger, mature palms that I wasn’t able to access or photograph. The palms were setting seed prolifically, as evidenced by the crazy amount of seed on the isolated individual in the picture.

 

 

These pictures don’t come close to documenting the size and scale of the oasis, there are literally thousands of palms scattered over several miles! 

While there are some large filiferas nearby that were clearly planted on old resort properties and/or along the roadside in straight lines (including the seeded specimen in the photo), the groves themselves appeared to me to be much older, with hundreds of even larger specimens all growing in a natural arrangement that suggests they were not deliberately arranged in their planting by humans. Given their size and the harsh environment I would not doubt that some of these palms are 100+ years old, are filiferas fast or slow growers? 

Anyone else know more about these palms, the history of the area, or any efforts to conserve or recognize this as as the northernmost extent of the species’ range?

 

Interesting. I have never been there, but hiked in Valley of Fire on the south side of it, just across the I15.   I looked it up and see it has been part of a US Fish & Wildlife Refuge Complex established in 1979.  So the Refuge biologists have at least a 43 year record to work with.  It is a bit surprising that if the indigenous tribes of the area were using parts of the plant prior to colonization that they wouldn't be deemed native to the area.  Perhaps there is information available on the Refuge Complex website.  Look at their Comprehensive Conservation Plan if they have it posted.

Gorgeous habitat photos. Those palms are magnificent. Thanks for posting

9 hours ago, stevethegator said:

Hello all, it’s been a long time since I’ve posted here and too long away from the palm community. Life has taken me far away from palms to the snowy mountains of Salt Lake City, UT, but I recently got the chance to visit what I believe to be the northernmost naturally occurring Washingtonia filifera grove near Moapa, NV and thought I’d share! 

First, about the area: Moapa Nevada is around an hour or so north of Las Vegas and less than an hour south of the Utah border, which is the northernmost extent of the Mojave desert ecoregion. The Moapa valley is famous for it’s warm springs and the local Indigenous culture for which the area is named. 

As with other Washingtonia groves in the Mojave, the palms themselves can be found growing along warm, spring fed streams which, in this area feed a larger wetland complex that is the subject of local conservation efforts.

Sadly, the conservation managers consider the Washingtonia a nuisance, and, despite obvious ecological similarities to other Washingtonia oases in the Mojave as well as local indigenous uses of the palms which pre-date any white settlement in the area, do not officially consider the palms “native” and thus remove them in many places along the watershed. 

I obviously can’t attest to how the first palm was brought to the valley but there are at least a half dozen individual groves with hundreds of palms each, all displaying great age along a several mile stretch of the river. The only grove I got pictures from is in a highly disturbed state near the parking lot/picnic area near the entrance to the refuge (note the silly wagon and fence!),  but this grove contains many 60’+ plants (photo with myself in it for scale). Apparently the conservation managers removed many of the largest palms from the valley several years ago “to prevent wildfires” 

From this area I also got a picture of several palms naturalizing in drier conditions away from the main water sources (yes that is snow way up on the mountains in the background) as well as a zoomed in shot of some palms peeking out of the riverine forest further downstream, where there were even healthier stands of larger, mature palms that I wasn’t able to access or photograph. The palms were setting seed prolifically, as evidenced by the crazy amount of seed on the isolated individual in the picture.

 

 

These pictures don’t come close to documenting the size and scale of the oasis, there are literally thousands of palms scattered over several miles! 

While there are some large filiferas nearby that were clearly planted on old resort properties and/or along the roadside in straight lines (including the seeded specimen in the photo), the groves themselves appeared to me to be much older, with hundreds of even larger specimens all growing in a natural arrangement that suggests they were not deliberately arranged in their planting by humans. Given their size and the harsh environment I would not doubt that some of these palms are 100+ years old, are filiferas fast or slow growers? 

Anyone else know more about these palms, the history of the area, or any efforts to conserve or recognize this as as the northernmost extent of the species’ range?

 

Great pictures

Being near by, @RyManUtah  would be the most experienced person w/ this area.. I'm sure he will chime in at some point w/ extra insight.. 

Awesome photos! I've read up on this population in the past, there was a website completely dedicated to making the case that these are native to Moapa and that the current management practices were devastating to these native groves.  I think the information made a good case their nativity, much like there is also strong evidence that the Castle Hot Springs population in Arizona is also native although still not accepted by all scholars.  

Here is a write up about it that I think is worth reading, this looks like it might be the same or similar to what I had read years ago

https://www.xeri.com/Moapa/wf-hr-part1.htm

Thanks for the informative post Steve. I didn’t know the extent of the northern most range of native W. filifera and from the photos, those

look quite old. I’ve been to the in situ stands outside of Palm Springs, Ca., which are unique and unforgettable environments.

Tim

Very cool! Thank you for posting these! There's a grove of these in the kern river canyon (which is technically at the border of the mojave along the sierra nevada) but these are definitely further north. 

@stevethegatorAwesome post!  I have some seed-grown Washingtonia filifera from near that area here.  Hoping they make it to that size at some point!

5 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@stevethegatorAwesome post!  I have some seed-grown Washingtonia filifera from near that area here.  Hoping they make it to that size at some point!

That would be impressive. It might be a better idea to try and source Washingtonia filifera seeds from the wetter more humid parts of the canary Islands for Florida, since when I was there I saw plenty of big filifera's and growing in warm humid conditions. It was 86f with over 70% humidity and the humidity was in the 80s and 90s% humidity at night and the Washingtonia filifera looked as good as they do in the Mediterranean and the ones I have seen in the Sahara desert. It's also funny how you can see cocos nucifera, phoenix dactylifera, Washingtonia filifera, Cyrtostachys renda, Rhopalostylis sapida and trachycarpus fortunei growing within a couple hundred feet of each other, palms that require completely different growing conditions!

Edited November 16, 20223 yr by Foxpalms

Nice write up!  I always note the curvature of the native stands, not what one envisions when referencing this palm.  

The also like wet feet. Even in 6b climates! 

Is the location of these trees, Moapa Warm Springs Nevada?

Going to Vegas next week and I’m looking to try and see filifera oasis or something in person and collect a couple pure seeds if possible, does anyone who knows Vegas know anywhere close that’s accessible by bus or something or at least close by Uber or something?

21 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Is the location of these trees, Moapa Warm Springs Nevada?

Going to Vegas next week and I’m looking to try and see filifera oasis or something in person and collect a couple pure seeds if possible, does anyone who knows Vegas know anywhere close that’s accessible by bus or something or at least close by Uber or something?

That's going to be an expensive Uber....

Blue:  Vegas area

Yellow:  Where the Moapa / Moapa Valley specimens would be located, Per iNat observational data...





 ~Rough estimate distance between L.V. and the Moapa area  ..One way. Via Google earth data... *** Actual distance may vary.

31 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

That's going to be an expensive Uber....

Blue:  Vegas area

Yellow:  Where the Moapa / Moapa Valley specimens would be located, Per iNat observational data...





 ~Rough estimate distance between L.V. and the Moapa area  ..One way. Via Google earth data... *** Actual distance may vary.

I did look at how much a Uber would be and it would be a bit much, I probably won’t have a opportunity to see them or collect seeds 😭

Moapa Valley has a fascinatingly harsh climate.

Hotter than Phoenix in the summer.  And not just by a half a degree or something.

Colder than Phoenix in the winter.   Record lows around 0F.

Dryer than even Las Vegas.

And yet, as Ian Malcolm says in Jurassic Park... "life will find a way."

Double post.  Please ignore.

51 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I did look at how much a Uber would be and it would be a bit much, I probably won’t have a opportunity to see them or collect seeds 😭

Can't get up to Moapa or out to areas  a bit closer by Lake Mead where they have been documented?  Look for specimens around where you'll be staying while in Vegas.. Never been there but imagine they'll be plenty to look over. 

Whether or not they'll still have seed on them? ..tougher question to answer.  Many might not but, if there are specimens around town that hold onto their seeds longer like some do here,  ya' might  luck out,  Pun intended.  

..Just be sure there aren't any Mex. Fans nearby to spoil the party . 

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Can't get up to Moapa or out to areas  a bit closer by Lake Mead where they have been documented?  Look for specimens around where you'll be staying while in Vegas.. Never been there but imagine they'll be plenty to look over. 

Whether or not they'll still have seed on them? ..tougher question to answer.  Many might not but, if there are specimens around town that hold onto their seeds longer like some do here,  ya' might  luck out,  Pun intended.  

..Just be sure there aren't any Mex. Fans nearby to spoil the party . 

That's what I worry about, I will see filiferas in the city but for the seeds, I feel robustas will be lurking 😂

I’ve always wanted to know if those are truly native to that region of Mojave desert.  

@SM458When one realizes the species was discovered in the late 1800's and sprouted in Belgium from a seed from a grove near Prescott, Az,......

And factor in they have been around for many milennia, even fossilized up to Wyoming......

Consider the species is only discovered a little over a hundred years ago........yet the natives have stories about the Moapa palms dating further back....

I believe it. 

2 minutes ago, jwitt said:

@SM458When one realizes the species was discovered in the late 1800's and sprouted in Belgium from a seed from a grove near Prescott, Az,......

And factor in they have been around for many milennia, even fossilized up to Wyoming......

I believe it. 

Many local palm people in AZ don't believe that grove is native, but it is.  It just happens to be right next to a resort that has also planted a shit ton of other palms.

But they didn't plant the grove.

On 11/15/2022 at 12:08 AM, stevethegator said:

Hello all, it’s been a long time since I’ve posted here and too long away from the palm community. Life has taken me far away from palms to the snowy mountains of Salt Lake City, UT, but I recently got the chance to visit what I believe to be the northernmost naturally occurring Washingtonia filifera grove near Moapa, NV and thought I’d share! 

First, about the area: Moapa Nevada is around an hour or so north of Las Vegas and less than an hour south of the Utah border, which is the northernmost extent of the Mojave desert ecoregion. The Moapa valley is famous for it’s warm springs and the local Indigenous culture for which the area is named. 

As with other Washingtonia groves in the Mojave, the palms themselves can be found growing along warm, spring fed streams which, in this area feed a larger wetland complex that is the subject of local conservation efforts.

Sadly, the conservation managers consider the Washingtonia a nuisance, and, despite obvious ecological similarities to other Washingtonia oases in the Mojave as well as local indigenous uses of the palms which pre-date any white settlement in the area, do not officially consider the palms “native” and thus remove them in many places along the watershed. 

I obviously can’t attest to how the first palm was brought to the valley but there are at least a half dozen individual groves with hundreds of palms each, all displaying great age along a several mile stretch of the river. The only grove I got pictures from is in a highly disturbed state near the parking lot/picnic area near the entrance to the refuge (note the silly wagon and fence!),  but this grove contains many 60’+ plants (photo with myself in it for scale). Apparently the conservation managers removed many of the largest palms from the valley several years ago “to prevent wildfires” 

From this area I also got a picture of several palms naturalizing in drier conditions away from the main water sources (yes that is snow way up on the mountains in the background) as well as a zoomed in shot of some palms peeking out of the riverine forest further downstream, where there were even healthier stands of larger, mature palms that I wasn’t able to access or photograph. The palms were setting seed prolifically, as evidenced by the crazy amount of seed on the isolated individual in the picture.

 

 

These pictures don’t come close to documenting the size and scale of the oasis, there are literally thousands of palms scattered over several miles! 

While there are some large filiferas nearby that were clearly planted on old resort properties and/or along the roadside in straight lines (including the seeded specimen in the photo), the groves themselves appeared to me to be much older, with hundreds of even larger specimens all growing in a natural arrangement that suggests they were not deliberately arranged in their planting by humans. Given their size and the harsh environment I would not doubt that some of these palms are 100+ years old, are filiferas fast or slow growers? 

Anyone else know more about these palms, the history of the area, or any efforts to conserve or recognize this as as the northernmost extent of the species’ range?

 

Hellow SteveTheGator (and all)

I may or may not get any reply to this however -- Just here to say

I am the one who WROTE that research at https://www.xeri.com/Moapa/wf-hr-part1.htm and the 6 parts of the paper.

As well as collected the Verbal memories (Testimonies) of the Native local Moapa Elders who had stories of their grandparents who had always remembered the Palms long before the Mormon Settlers came to the region. There are hidden groves very remote as well that They knew about (and i knew about) but never revealed Because of fear they would also be wiped out. I lived in the area in 1979 and family has been in the area since that time nearby.

Also distant relatives were responsible for the anachronistic stories crediting a White man (Mendis Cooper) for palm introduction. (but he actually only planted the large trees in front of his home on Cooper street 40 miles distant which still stand to this day)

A Moapa Elder put her hands on me and prayed in her Uto-Aztecan language at one of the main groves - before they bulldozed nearly 25,000 trees back in the 1990s. The Plummer Resort there at the time had a Welcome card which stated:

The Palms are native and have always been here according to the local Indians (Moapa)

He refused to sell to the Nature Conservancy. They hounded the man for years but he refused. I was with my father and two others on a hill overlooking the Moapa Warm Springs when the full glory of a minimum of 25,000 palms graced the area. We were attempting to count the area by blocking off the heads in our line of vision one square at a time when we saw a person on the LOCKED Wildlife area portion where NV fish and game had a small relatively NEW refuge they had purchased from a local resident (It abutted the Plummer resort)

They had an ugly tall cyclone fence around the area topped with barbed wire. The "Dace" (Coriaceae) refuge did not yet exist. It was understaffed and there were very tall dead dry weeds all over the refuge portion. The Plummer resort was pristine and kept in beautiful perfect shape. The skirts were kept pretty High -- like 10 feet or higher on the 90 foot + old palms. We (all four of us (two are now dead) saw a man on the refuge side light a cigarette. He did not see us.

We saw a fire begin. We didn't stick around but we "assumed" he would take care of it. We heard the next day: the entire area burned.

Even a fire truck was destroyed. The resort was utterly destroyed. Plummer sold to the Nature conservancy after that (was my understanding) and they in turn - turned it over to the newly forming Moapa Coriaceae refuge under NV fish and game. Despite a mammilian wildlife Biologist finding Western Yellow bellied Bats in the Palm skirts (which is their preferred habitat) -- they used very cursory observations by James Cornett from years earlier (from Palm Springs) to condemn the Palms as nuisance plants and as a threat to the endemic fish. (which has never been demonstrated.)

The people who like to say the palms were brought in by Spaniards fail to explain the existence of WHOLE palmate Fossil leaves (I've personally seen some over 5 feet across) and fossilized roots which show that costapalmate Palms have existed from As far north as Wyoming to the Southern US borders.

I personally believe there is also no such thing as a Filibusta (cross or hybrid palm between the two varieties filifera and robusta) since the large chaffy perianths would preclude pollen from another tree from pollenating BEFORE it self pollinated.

So I think it's a very ancient very stable Genus... and any outlier unstable variations split off eons ago to become accoelorraphe, serenoa, brahea etc possibly?

Some of which seem less genetically Stable /prone to branching into new species over the previous eons.

Another clue to it's ancient roots... Since Phoenix seems to be the only induplicate pinnate leaf form (and is related being a Coryphoideae itself) and since there was a fossil of an induplicate pinnate (Phoenix) leaf form from Texas Fossil beds.... I would wonder if Washingtonia (being possibly 50 million years old?) might not be the proto-palm of all palms. (there are scan tropical palms in the fossil records) And Ice age movements pushing the palms southward appears to support the idea that in its disjunct populations scattered all over high desert and desert areas where they either don't flood but also have access to moisture and protection argues for it as a Relict genus.

ALL of the Native Elders who testified have since died. Irene Benn, Juanita Kinlichinie, Evelynn Samalar etc. But they said their grandparents said

"The palms have always been here" and they remembered using it for food during famines. It was very hard (the seeds) So hard that rodents wouldn't even eat them. I have seen some of the manifests of the nearby Lost City archaeological digs from the early part of 1900s when (a distant relative) acted as an amateur but very important preserver of the archaeology of that 30 mile long ancient inhabited area. Numerous times Small reddish ovoid unknown "seeds" were described from old Neotoma middens dating back before white man arrived. The Spanish by the way (the Spanish trail is still visible in portions of the Great Mesa nearby) passed at least 10 miles south of the area where the palms are hidden down in a valley. Fremont also went through the area and completely missed the Warm Springs staying on the Spanish Trail. Early Settlers logs and diarys / journals complain about the palms cutting them and being a nuisance so they burned or chopped them down whenever they could.... and instead Brought Whips of Cottonwood from Utah and started planting them for shade. Areas that (according to settlers along the muddy river which used to have palms remained palm free when ever Farmers were in the area.)

I was actually invited to a meeting of the Moapa Tribe and the Chairperson approved my writing. However at the same time, the newly founded Moapa Dace refuge was hiring Moapa men to operate bulldozers and they quickly started piling up thousands of bulldozed BURNED Palms (immediately following the fire)

Never mind that these palms are very resistant to dying from Fire. They would have all likely survived. So the Groves one sees in the area today look like a tiny remnant of what it used to be. It was shocking actually.

The Nevada Archaeo-Nevada society voted 100% of it's membership to support what I had written and it included some of the rangers at the Valley of Fire State Park. The Lake Mead National Recreation area got a hard bound copy of all 6 chapters of my report. They never once responded. They did appear (to me) to WAIT until the Elders at the Moapa tribe had died before they started removing the palms aggressively from LMNRA. Meanwhile they surround all their ranger homes, the visitors center near Bullhead City and Headquarters with Phoenix Dactylifera or robusta.

The Las Vegas Life magazine did a full several page write up about the entire thing years ago.

There is a copy of the report (in a binder) at the local Overton Library.

I did plant community comparisons, Climate comparisons, Ethnographical comparisons (the Moapa Southern Paiute are Uto-Aztecan and therefore cousins of the Cahuilla, the Chemehuevi, The Hopi, The Ute, Goshiute, Paiute, and the Wahirio and the Tohono O'odham (papago) and Pima (Tohono A'kimel)

The Tohono, Cahuilla, Wahirio, all used palms. The Cahuilla in Palm Springs being the most well known. By the time the Moapa were encountered by White Mormon settlers they had undergone a couple hundred years of constant MOURNING.... Why? Because the Navajo (Dine' - Athebascan like the Apache) had been taking women and children as slaves and taking them south to sell to the Spanish in New Mexico for profit. So by the time the White settlers got to the area the last Tribal Historian (a verbal history) named Peg-leg Joe tried his best to get someone to record his words before they died forever. He unfortunately died and no one ever recorded his words. Unlike Father Patencio of the Palm Springs Cahuilla who recorded that the First Cahuilla stretched out his arms and became a PALM TREE..... The Moapa would have definitely met and intermingled with the Cahuilla at one time.

Yet this still does not explain the presence of Fossil Palm leaves and fossil Palm roots. .... and the ONLY Extant palms are Washingtonia filfera.

There are even local petroglyphs (in my writing) found in the Valley of Fire on Atl Atl rock (note: They even use an ATL ATL in the petroglyphs -- a hunting instrument which is found among the Aztec far to the south! -- which also implies contact in addition to the language roots) and some of the Petroglyphs are suspiciously like Palms with the Fruiting spadices pictured. I was told by the Moapa Elders that the Famine food they were told about was called "chum" by the grandparents and that they also used the leaves to make sweatlodges. They said they had to soak the seed a long time before they could smash it into a gruel.

I found deep Mortar beds (with pictures) near several groves. In addition to this... the palms in front of Mendis Cooper's house (the White man from the early 1900s credited with planting palms by the LMNRA and Wildlife people who ignore everything that was written --most likely because I do not have a DEGREE or PEDIGREE.... ???) are not even close to the height that the tallest palms in Moapa used to be -- before they bulldozed them making certain that would never ever be an issue again.

Okay. This will probably get removed by moderation for being too long. Sorry -- if so. I no longer have any fight in me.

Links to all Reports:
Articles about the Moapa Palms and Related articles:
the 100 PAGE FULL REPORT HERE

[ please note: The full report does not include recently discovered information regarding the Bats or Counts ]

Links to all Reports:
Articles about the Moapa Palms and Related articles:

11 QUICK CONDENSED FACTS may be found HERE.
A FIVE PAGE INTRODUCTION is HERE.
A MORE in depth EIGHT PAGE INTRODUCTION is HERE.
A TEN PAGE PREFACE TO THE FULL REPORT is HERE.

the 100 PAGE FULL REPORT HERE

Rebuttals to existing Articles re: W. filifera:
| GLOBAL WARMING, NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR PALMS SPREAD! |
| W.FILIFERA: EVIDENCE POINTS TO A RELICT SPECIES!' |

====================

As seen below in the photo screen grab (before it disappeared) I noticed long ago that someone (not me) had put my reports on Wikipedia as references. (I did not do that) (I have no idea who did) However I did Notice that a few months ago ALL REFERNCES to the above were removed. No explanation. Most likely because I have zero Pedigree. so It's simply very "unscientific" ---- I guess, how presumptuous of me to assume it could be helpful?

On 5/2/2024 at 6:50 PM, ahosey01 said:

Moapa Valley has a fascinatingly harsh climate.

Hotter than Phoenix in the summer.  And not just by a half a degree or something.

Colder than Phoenix in the winter.   Record lows around 0F.

Dryer than even Las Vegas.

And yet, as Ian Malcolm says in Jurassic Park... "life will find a way."

I or my family have either lived in the area of Overton (have business there) since 1979 - I did climate comparisons for many years. You are correct in that it is hotter than Vegas (It's also almost 800 feet lower in elevation) It is zone 9a in places (Echo Bay is 9b) and Logandale (Same valley) is probably somewhere between 8b and 9a) -temps of 120 F are common but 115 is common. It's not as hot as Yuma (10a) or Bullhead city 10a -- but those are even lower elevation.

I have never heard of temps at 0 degrees. But Logandale (the cold sink of the area) has been as low as 12 or 14 degrees in short snaps

Going back to 1939 when they started recording such things.... It has never been below 8 degrees f. But that was probably in a cold sink for a limited time and in LoganDale. Either way there is an enormous Orange Tree which has been in Logandale (and Washingtonia Palms) which have never suffered frost bite since 1979. So while I don't know where the 0 degree info may come from - all I can say is, since 1979 I've never heard of anything that low. I have seen it get into the upper teens briefly... but as a rule 19 degrees would be the lowest for the areas in 9a (30-35 for a lowest low range - is considered 9a)

These are the Extreme Temps since 1939 for the Moapa Valley area (which is several climate zones because Moapa Valley stetches from the Warm Springs (Moapa Warm Springs just adjacent to the Moapa Indian reservation which is kind of hidden in one part of the valley to the south of the springs and OUTSIDE of all the palms groves) -- and it's about 40 miles to the Southernmost end of the Valley. So several places experience more extreme cold. Like Logandale.

And some places like Echo Bay on the lake are actually 9a zone (like parts of Phoenix) 9b is more like Tucson -- 10a would be like Bullhead city or Yuma or Ajo and some parts of Phoenix or Scottsdale as far as cold extremes go. But these things are very variable of course. I recorded 10 years worth of Freeze data in the area when I was young. One poster noted that the Wild life refuge had been in Moapa since 1979. Well... while they DID have a spot up there -- the Plummer resort (where they are NOW) was NOT selling to them. The Refuge was a very small thing - and they purchased one House and family plot (in among the palms) right next door to the old Plummer place. But it was massively overgrown with dry dead weeds. The former owner kept it pristine and nice but not the refuge. They were small unitl the mid 1990s and that's when the Fire took place and it started on that Refuge Property. Immediately after the Plummer resort was destroyed by that fire, the refuge took over the entire place. Then they took over the old Howard Huges property / pool and house.... which was owned by the Mormon church as a camping private Retreat. The Mormon's allowed me, a Professional Ethnographer (Helen Mortinsen) who had planned to professionally record the memories of the living Moapa Elders stories -- but never did before they all died -- even though she was RIGHT THERE WITH ME and with the elders WHEN we and the entire group from the Archaeo-Nevada Society visited the Palm grove. This is when the elder Evelyn Samalar prayed over me completely surprising me... in the Paiute language. She laid her hands on my head. I dared to ask her what she said afterward. She was so quiet and graceful... (NO ONE saw us. everyone was playing in the water!) She softly said: I told the Palms... you were here to protect them and to protect our legacy here.

I choked up. I had worked very hard to do all this. It was one of the few times I felt appreciated for all the work. Even at the tribal conference meeting where they approved (that I could write this and go to the grove to talk about it) I felt like an Alien. The other Elders would not see me. I had to have a friend (Kaye Herron -- who had worked for many years for the Moapa Telephone company and who KNEW all the Native women personally) go and collect their stories. They are very reticent to talk to white people and as a whole did NOT seem to care one way or another what happened -- except some of the men got GOOD JOBS to bulldoze the palms -- after the fire -- which are NOT even on the reservation property... so maybe it's little wonder that this place (which Evelyn personally told me had been a SACRED place to her grandparents) was no longer high on their list of priorities. They were no longer welcome in their ancient sacret place.

I meant to add. One poster above said that since the Refuge had been there since 1979 they should know all about the area. They know all about the Dace for certain. They also know all about other plants in the area. But when it comes to Washingtonia filifera they pass on it and list it as a nuisance introduction (and they have NEVER shown evidence that this is so. Not once) This is the same for Hassayampa preserve in Wikiup and for Castle Creek. They have even gone so far as to say that Washingtonia pollen is not found in the ancient layers of earth (and therefore couldn't be a relict) however if the Palm was not extant in THAT particular spot where they tested it is unlikely that anyone would find any ancient pollen. It's not as though the palm was in every location. The fact that fossilized roots (of some Palm) and PALMATE (not costapalmate) (Washingtonia is sometimes described as briefly costapalmate But I mean it is a FLAT leaf and the midrib (costa) is only briefly ascending into the leaf itself and is otherwise indistinguishable from the rest of the induplicate folds for pretty much the entirety of the leaf.

The Wildlife people / have never appeared to be interested in what I've written nor did they ever contact the Moapa Tribal elders to ask them. Old Mr. Plummer told them the Indians told HIM that the palms had always been there. Of course both he and all of those who would have KNOWN grandparents old enough to predate White man are now deceased. So the question is moot now. Well isn't that convenient? The wildlife biologist in the refuge (after the huge fire and after the Ichthyologists made it into a "Dace refuge" had found the Western Yellow bellied bat there... which makes sense if the Palm is an old native resident.

I had the distinct feeling that he was very surprised at the fact of the Bat's presence and was also perhaps ready to question the official stance. But it seems no one is questioning any of it now.

The Bat's presence makes less sense if it was introduced since the fronds are a preferred habitat. (Other populations of the Bat are distant as well) So I guess someone ALSO brough mating pairs of bats up to the area when they brought their palms seeds. Maybe the bats waited a few years for skirts to form? James Cornett from Palms Springs desert museum came up at the behest of the local Botanist (a former acquaintance of mine in Overton) Bruce Lund - because Bruce deferred to James Cornett (Cornett being the curator for the museum in Palm Springs) -- I assume. Anyway. Cornett did a short 3 day survey in the area wherein he undercounted (by a HUGE margin) the numbers of palms extant in the original groves. Then (even though I had photographic evidence of OLD dead Washingtonia trunks with what might have been dinapate holes in them- he reported a finding of NO dinapate (which he also appeared to equate with the idea the palms Must be- adventive plants - since he seemed to think Dinapate is obligate to a W. filifera presence. )

Not sure why one should come to a conclusion that a disjunct population a hundred miles (straight line) distant from the nearest other populations or more should have a dinapate wrightii present? Nor should one be expected to have examined every individual. By our counts in 1995 there had to be a minimum of 25,000 or more palms. This seemed conservative.

Kleon Winsor (one of the old timers in the area) had been around since the early 1900s. He reported to me that People hated the palms and got rid of them when ever they could and planted Cottonwoods. Additionally I knew Chic Perkins who ran the Museum for all of it's years (after the original Perkins (Faye Perkins) passed away) (The Lost City museum in Overton) Chick Perkins gave me my first Palm tree: (Phoenix dactylifera) which was growing outside the museum. Chick gave me the book which is where the story of Mendis Cooper planting the palms took on a life of its own as being True. It really does NOT say Mendis Cooper brought the palms to Overton. What his relative had written was that Mendis was the FIRST to plant the palms in Overton. (He did this right in a straight line in front of his home on Cooper street... they are all still standing there.) Coopers house however was 40 miles from the nearest Native groves in Moapa Warm Springs (Even though Overton is NOW ALSO CALLED: Moapa!!) Most people in Overton had never traveled 40 miles to the distant Moapa grove -- back in the early 1900s that was a serious treck. The short excerpt does NOT SAY WHERE Cooper got his palms or if he only planted seeds. If he planted PLANTS however - back in the 1800s he would have had to have gotten them from Nearby. It is very doubtful he would have carried 10 baby trees for very far by horse and buggy. Maybe he did but that still would mean he got them locally. (local being Moapa Warm springs) So the story really tells us nothing. But Of course Mendis Cooper was a relative of Chic and he was very proud of this story because his Wife had written it. I scoured through as many old Mormon Journals as I could and found no reference but that was to be expected from the way Kleon Winsor had talked. None of this mattered to the Moapa Tribe as a whole. But this could be because they were so reticent to speak about anything. Evelyn was different. She told me that her grandfather told her the "Palms have always been here"

It could be my imagination but the Wild life Refuge stance has always seemed to carry some sort of built in pre-bias when it comes to the palms. They have always seemed convinced that the Palms are competing for water with the dace or that the roots harm them or even Kill them somehow. They've tried to prove this after the Fire (and their explanations appear to me - to lack any kind of support from real evidence and in fact I have found all kinds of contradictions which simply can't be argued away* . So they have always seemed (at least) to avoid or ignored any thing I have written. Both LMNRA and the local Wild Life preserves and Fish and Game have volunteers who come from the Univ in Las Vegas who show up where ever Palms are present and either poison or cut them down. This has been an ongoing agressive campaign since 1979. None have ever questioned me as to what I have found nor have they attempted to explain what they're doing. People just assume they MUST be following some sort of "Proof" that they have that the palms are a nuisance introduction. But there is no way that a Botanist can prove such a thing if all the climate is correct, the plant companion communities are correct, and the stories of people that have hated the plants for the last 130 years can't be relied upon to offer any kind of Objective reasons that they are correct. On top of it... they have to brush off the fact of fossil presence. And the only thing LEFT are populations of Palms ---the only ONE EXTANT -- that cannot be explained. Simply "saying" well - they must be adventive is not good enough if we're going to pretend we're relying on "Science and Botany" for the answer here. It's just a FACT that it is OUTSIDE the realm of "botanical expertise or science" to determine they are Native plants. The Stories of the Native American locals should NOT have been ignored.... but they were. And yet they ACCEPT the stories of LOCAL WHITE Settlers (who definitely ARE adventive) over the stories of the elders who have now all died. (They have never shown real supporting evidence -- for their arguments... which have become the official stance)

Evelyn told me that her grandfather told her the "Palms have always been here"

It's a very deceptively simple statement perhaps.... until you realize (especially if you have read Cahuilla Father Patencios words) that it very much mirrors the WAY in which the Cahuilla spoke of the palms. The First man stretched out his arms and became a palm tree. It even mirrors (remarkably!) the picture (Petroglyph) on Atl Atl Rock in Valley of Fire nearby -- where a palm looking glyph stretches out its arms with very anthropomorphic looking dangling fingers: Which for all intents and purposes look identical to fruiting spadices hanging down. Or they could be the stylized leaves. One thing is for certain -- they look like nothing else in the area I could think of. While the pictures of Big horn sheep are very identifiable next to them.

On another note: I have never been convinced that Washingtonia robusta hybridizes with filifera. In fact, I wrote an article about it many years ago and submitted it to Dr. Bill Bittle who was a Botanist specializing in Palms and had worked for years in Palm Springs. He was Editor (now deceased) of the south Texas Palm Society news letter at the time and he published my article on that. Anyway my experience (I was 21 when I started and now I'm 70) has been that Filifera is variable but it seems to be related to water, soil and fertilizer and especially to sun and even HEAT. (IT LOVES Heat and no humidity). In the vast palm groves of California deserts (I have not only hiked many of these... but I also own 5 acres which abutts a large Native California grove)

In Tahquitz Canyon for example.... You can see all types of variation in the native trees based on the LIGHT... (apparently) and the soil and the water etc. There are NO robustas nearby. Now in the Moapa main grove (which was all but decimated and is now only a shadow of it's former glory but still very beautiful) I rarely saw ANY variation. But they had MORE sunlight (the Tahquitz canyon cuts off light in morning and in evening. In Moapa they have constant light all day long.

At Juanita springs (across the Virgin river) the Palms are somewhat more stunted. This could be because like the palms at Little Finland -- they have hard packed soil. The Palms (all filifera) at KOFA grove in Southern / Western Arizona for example -- have ZERO running water and are not riparian at all. They subsist on whatever little rain water collects in their very rocky outcroppings. They appear Diminutive and rather small --like a dwarf version-- and some even appear to drop their skirts naturally. However I can attest that I collected several seeds (and also replanted just as many that were likely to never sprout because they were caught in rock crevices.) and they all grew to be NORMAL Washingtona filifera. So there was no noticeable variation. I can also tell you of another experiment.

I know of a row of Palms planted in the Desert (NV) that were planted in 1903 by a former Governor of NV; Syphus. I measured those palms for over a period of 30 years. They stopped growing and even though they continue to put out leaves and seeds -- they appear to not have grown at all in over 30 years.

(They were cut off from water) I know of two other trees as well. One planted by my father and one by a neighbor. They are over 30 years old (one was actually 50 before it was killed by the rangers.) It had become stunted and was only 3 feet tall. The One my dad planted also was about 3 feet tall and after being watered for the first few years was never watered again. This part of Nevada only gets about 3-6 inches of Rain annually and that's only if you aggregate a giant area and count it as one single area. So Washingtonia filifera has the ability to go into a dormancy once established and look beautiful and yet not really do anything... and sometimes will even still produce seed.

I gave them the KOFA seeds - water and fertilizer (In the San Joaquin valley CLAY they call gumbo) and they came out to be normal after all. Likewise - in Palm springs itself -- some of the street plantings of Filifera have the largest Trunk girths you'll ever see. Just amazing. HUGE. Just up the canyon? (In the native groves where their parent trees are? The palms are lithe and tall and rather spindly by comparison. It seems clear that trunk girth and height is variable on filifera depending on conditions. There may even be some genetic differences. But I've planted filifera and robusta together and the seeds seem true to one of the other. I could be wrong of course. But considering that few Filifera are found in groves in Mexico (if any) but there are NO robusta in groves here in the States. I believe that the genus is remarkably stable genetically and the two aren't even separate species but really just varietals. I personally think filifera is older (being hardier) while robusta would never have made it in the last ice age up farther north.

Filifera on the other hand grow up in Utah as well through out Hurricane and St. George.