NC , Trachycarpus fortunei

[BigBilly]

Saw this massive palm in my hometown , The owner said he hasn't protected .

[Will Simpson]

What city are you in or near ?

That's a beauty .

Will

[BigBilly]

I'm in Statesville  ( sadly )

[Allen]

50 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

Saw this massive palm in my hometown , The owner said he hasn't protected .

 

Nice palm - protected spot in 7b can probably get by unprotected after established.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

20 hours ago, BigBilly said:

Saw this massive palm in my hometown , The owner said he hasn't protected .

It's always interesting to hear these described as "massive", when here, that's an expected sight.  I guess it's the same for enthusiasts here, describing a palm that is rarely or never seen in it's typical state elsewhere.

 

[MrTropical]

Very nice palm there. Looks great.

I've been told that there is an individual in Wilkesboro, about 45 minutes north of Statesville, that has a Trachy. Never been able to locate it though. Would be neat to see one in an NC Zone 7A.

Can't wait for my T. Fortunei to get big enough to plant here in the mountains, and I'm ready to protect it at all costs when that time comes. 🤣

[Allen]

9 minutes ago, MrTropical said:

I've been told that there is an individual in Wilkesboro, about 45 minutes north of Statesville, that has a Trachy. Never been able to locate it though. Would be neat to see one in an NC Zone 7A.

Looks like Wilkesboro is currently officially at 7b in some parts so most likely is really zone 7b/8a as most zones I've looked at in the southeast have moved up a half zone since the last 2012 update.  So it should support established or microclimate Trachy except a rare event.

[BigBilly]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:45 PM, Las Palmas Norte said:

It's always interesting to hear these described as "massive", when here, that's an expected sight.  I guess it's the same for enthusiasts here, describing a palm that is rarely or never seen in it's typical state elsewhere.

 

Yeah , It's crazy to me how some people see palms every day , I've seen a total 2 palms and 3 cycads in my area.

[knikfar]

We have trachies here in Raleigh that are over 40 years old, are out in the open and have never been protected. Also zone 7b. I think trachies are pretty safe in a solid 7b without protection. 

[BigBilly]

41 minutes ago, knikfar said:

We have trachies here in Raleigh that are over 40 years old, are out in the open and have never been protected. Also zone 7b. I think trachies are pretty safe in a solid 7b without protection. 

That's cool , Are there any sabals there ?

Edited September 6, 2022 by BigBilly

[knikfar]

18 hours ago, BigBilly said:

That's cool , Are there any sabals there ?

There are a few regular sabal palmettos but as far as I know, most of those have been planted in the last 10 years or so. There are some at JC Raulston Arboretum that have been there for a lot longer but I don't know how long exactly. Aside from those, there are a good number of sabal birminghams that have been growing for more than 40 years and have never been protected. You can see some large ones at Jaycee Park on Wade Ave. There are also really large trachies there to. Also probably 40 years + old. 

[knikfar]

19 hours ago, BigBilly said:

That's cool , Are there any sabals there ?

Side note, I have more sabal palmettos in my yard than I can count. They're all very small since I grew them from seed I collected myself. The largest is probably only 24" tall. But most of them have been in the ground for three years or so and I've never protected them. 

[BigBilly]

5 hours ago, knikfar said:

Side note, I have more sabal palmettos in my yard than I can count. They're all very small since I grew them from seed I collected myself. The largest is probably only 24" tall. But most of them have been in the ground for three years or so and I've never protected them. 

That's interesting , I'm really think Raleigh might be in zone 8 instead of 7 . Firstly Sabals and 2ndly the temperature data they haven't really  dropped below 10 F that much this decade. 
Are they're any other zone 8 Palms there ? 

[Allen]

24 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

That's interesting , I'm really think Raleigh might be in zone 8 instead of 7 . Firstly Sabals and 2ndly the temperature data they haven't really  dropped below 10 F that much this decade. 
Are they're any other zone 8 Palms there ? 

Could be currently considered zone 8a but 1994, 1996, 2000, 2014 and 2018 would have killed many out in the open palmetto according to the chart. Probable Trachy losses as well

Edited September 7, 2022 by Allen

[knikfar]

31 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

That's interesting , I'm really think Raleigh might be in zone 8 instead of 7 . Firstly Sabals and 2ndly the temperature data they haven't really  dropped below 10 F that much this decade. 
Are they're any other zone 8 Palms there ? 

That's the important thing to remember about these zone ratings. They're really just a guide and they're based on average low temps, not extremes. So I try and prepare for the extremes. My butia is a good example. The butia will be hardy here most years but I know for a fact a winter will come that will kill it. That's why I don't rely on being a true zone 8, regardless of what the most recent whether data indicates. 

[BigBilly]

9 minutes ago, knikfar said:

That's the important thing to remember about these zone ratings. They're really just a guide and they're based on average low temps, not extremes. So I try and prepare for the extremes. My butia is a good example. The butia will be hardy here most years but I know for a fact a winter will come that will kill it. That's why I don't rely on being a true zone 8, regardless of what the most recent whether data indicates. 

Ah fair , Also a butia in Raleigh that's a new one , Kind of cool seeing zone 8 palms in Raleigh.

[Allen]

1 minute ago, BigBilly said:

Ah fair , Also a butia in Raleigh that's a new one , Kind of cool seeing zone 8 palms in Raleigh.

Butia are pretty tough.  The best feather palm to try but will need protection.  +1 zone protection is pretty easy until they get above 10-12 feet.  

[BigBilly]

2 minutes ago, Allen said:

Butia are pretty tough.  The best feather palm to try but will need protection.  +1 zone protection is pretty easy until they get above 10-12 feet.  

That's interesting , I wonder if dates could be viable in Raleigh in the future , The only place in NC where I think they can grow is the southern outer-banks ( maybe ).

[Phassett]

2 hours ago, BigBilly said:

That's interesting , I wonder if dates could be viable in Raleigh in the future , The only place in NC where I think they can grow is the southern outer-banks ( maybe ).

There’s a few dates around southwest Charlotte that I know of that are pretty big/established 

[BigBilly]

5 minutes ago, Phassett said:

There’s a few dates around southwest Charlotte that I know of that are pretty big/established 

Huh , Do you have them on google maps . I'm extremely curious where they are / what they look like ..?

[Phassett]

7 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

Huh , Do you have them on google maps . I'm extremely curious where they are / what they look like ..?

 

 

if you go through Palms r kool videos you’ll see some different palms being grown around here.  

[knikfar]

14 hours ago, BigBilly said:

That's interesting , I wonder if dates could be viable in Raleigh in the future , The only place in NC where I think they can grow is the southern outer-banks ( maybe ).

I know there are dates growing close to Wilmington. I plan on trying one here in Raleigh at some point but I don’t expect long term survival 

[BigBilly]

9 hours ago, knikfar said:

I know there are dates growing close to Wilmington. I plan on trying one here in Raleigh at some point but I don’t expect long term survival 

Fair , I mean the only long term palms in NC are Windmills and Possibly Sabals , Although Most sabals look ehhhhh

[knikfar]

16 hours ago, BigBilly said:

Fair , I mean the only long term palms in NC are Windmills and Possibly Sabals , Although Most sabals look ehhhhh

The coastal areas are also full of butia and chamaerops. Most of which survived the 2018 100 year cold event. We have a few of each that survived that here in the Raleigh area to. 

[BigBilly]

That's wow the Chamaerops not surprised but the butia is wow...

[teddytn]

When I was in Atlantic beach last year there was some big gnarly chamaerops, butias, and tons and tons of palmettos. Massive Sabal minors, a bunch of tall windmill palms. Clearly all of these were there pre 2018. @BigBillysabal minor and Sabal palmetto are native to NC. Windmills, saw palmetto hardy in most of NC. Needle palms for sure, all kinds of Sabal variants. Birmingham, Louisiana, Brazoria, tamaulipas, Blackburniana. Tons of variety that will grow at least the closer you get to the coast/ southern half of the state.  

[BigBilly]

1 minute ago, teddytn said:

When I was in Atlantic beach last year there was some big gnarly chamaerops, butias, and tons and tons of palmettos. Massive Sabal minors, a bunch of tall windmill palms. Clearly all of these were there pre 2018. @BigBillysabal minor and Sabal palmetto are native to NC. Windmills, saw palmetto hardy in most of NC. Needle palms for sure, all kinds of Sabal variants. Birmingham, Louisiana, Brazoria, tamaulipas, Blackburniana. Tons of variety that will grow at least the closer you get to the coast/ southern half of the state.  

That's , Cool I've never been to the NC Coast some how , But i normally go to myrtle beach and all you see their are sabals .

[Aceraceae]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:38 PM, BigBilly said:

That's interesting , I'm really think Raleigh might be in zone 8 instead of 7 . Firstly Sabals and 2ndly the temperature data they haven't really  dropped below 10 F that much this decade. 
Are they're any other zone 8 Palms there ? 

 

On 9/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, Allen said:

Could be currently considered zone 8a but 1994, 1996, 2000, 2014 and 2018 would have killed many out in the open palmetto according to the chart. Probable Trachy losses as well

 

On 9/7/2022 at 5:13 PM, knikfar said:

That's the important thing to remember about these zone ratings. They're really just a guide and they're based on average low temps, not extremes. So I try and prepare for the extremes. My butia is a good example. The butia will be hardy here most years but I know for a fact a winter will come that will kill it. That's why I don't rely on being a true zone 8, regardless of what the most recent whether data indicates. 

 

Raleigh is zone 8A by the data with a mean minimum of 12 F over the past 30 years. Trachycarpus is a zone 8 not a zone 7 Palm. There is a tendency to overrate cold hardiness going by extreme minimum anecdotes but that's not what the system is by definition. Trachycarpus are zone 8 because they can handle somewhat frequent cold below 20 but only occasional cold below 10. But that does not make them zone 7, where there are below zero temps in some cases one out of every two winters or more. 

And then there's a tendency to overrate  cities cold rating such as calling sable minor mccurtain zone 6 where neither sabal minor or any part of that region of Oklahoma is zone 6. 

[BigBilly]

36 minutes ago, Aceraceae said:

 

 

Raleigh is zone 8A by the data with a mean minimum of 12 F over the past 30 years. Trachycarpus is a zone 8 not a zone 7 Palm. There is a tendency to overrate cold hardiness going by extreme minimum anecdotes but that's not what the system is by definition. Trachycarpus are zone 8 because they can handle somewhat frequent cold below 20 but only occasional cold below 10. But that does not make them zone 7, where there are below zero temps in some cases one out of every two winters or more. 

And then there's a tendency to overrate  cities cold rating such as calling sable minor mccurtain zone 6 where neither sabal minor or any part of that region of Oklahoma is zone 6. 

That's fair , I got to disagree a lot of area's are changing zones , For Example Raleigh was zone 7 . If you look at the 2000-1970 Data but now it's moved into zone 8 . 

[Will Simpson]

On 9/9/2022 at 4:02 PM, BigBilly said:

That's , Cool I've never been to the NC Coast some how , But i normally go to myrtle beach and all you see their are sabals .

Wilmington , NC 

 

[Phassett]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:04 PM, BigBilly said:

Fair , I mean the only long term palms in NC are Windmills and Possibly Sabals , Although Most sabals look ehhhhh

I’m not sure if you’ve been around south Charlotte/SC border but a lot of sabals look pretty good around where I live (southwest Charlotte) and have been here for awhile and well before 2018.  Especially on lake Wylie they’re tons of sabals, pindos, windmills and a couple of tall Washingtonia that receive no winter protection.  You’re starting to see more palms being planted here mostly windmills and sabals due to the hardiness but you see some surprises with different varieties along the way!

 

 

[BigBilly]

1 minute ago, Phassett said:

I’m not sure if you’ve been around south Charlotte/SC border but a lot of sabals look pretty good around where I live (southwest Charlotte) and have been here for awhile and well before 2018.  Especially on lake Wylie they’re tons of sabals, pindos, windmills and a couple of tall Washingtonia that receive no winter protection.  You’re starting to see more palms being planted here mostly windmills and sabals due to the hardiness but you see some surprises with different varieties along the way!

 

 

Actually yeah I've been to that area. The Only good looking sabals I saw there where the ones around Carowinds.

[Phassett]

18 minutes ago, BigBilly said:

Actually yeah I've been to that area. The Only good looking sabals I saw there where the ones around Carowinds.

Yeah there’s def a lot of nice ones around if your ever in the area it’s definitely worth to drive around especially near lake Wylie 

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Seems like one you get to southern part of lake there are a lot more 

[knikfar]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:02 PM, BigBilly said:

That's fair , I got to disagree a lot of area's are changing zones , For Example Raleigh was zone 7 . If you look at the 2000-1970 Data but now it's moved into zone 8 . 

And many of the windmills here were planted in the 1970s along with sabal birminghams. And many of those are still around and I don't believe they've ever been protected. So I still consider trachys a warm 7b palm. Same with sabal birmingham. 

[knikfar]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, Allen said:

Could be currently considered zone 8a but 1994, 1996, 2000, 2014 and 2018 would have killed many out in the open palmetto according to the chart. Probable Trachy losses as well

2018 did kill some, but not all, regular sabals but no sabal birminghams. I'm not aware of any windmills that died in 2018 and I know of many that are out in the open. But 2018 is a good example of why I don't consider Raleigh a solid zone 8a, despite what the 30 year data says. Its also the reason why I consider trachys to be warm 7b palms at least. 

[Phassett]

On 9/11/2022 at 10:10 AM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Seems like one you get to southern part of lake there are a lot more 

There’s quite a bit on the Charlotte side of lake Wylie as well.  Majority of the lakeside homes have palms in there back yard you’d think your in FL while out in the water haha

[RJ]

20 hours ago, Phassett said:

There’s quite a bit on the Charlotte side of lake Wylie as well.  Majority of the lakeside homes have palms in there back yard you’d think your in FL while out in the water haha

They’re washies along lake Wylie as well. I was bit surprised to see that, large established ones to boot. 

[Phassett]

5 hours ago, RJ said:

They’re washies along lake Wylie as well. I was bit surprised to see that, large established ones to boot. 

I haven’t seen them since late last year.  Can’t wait to head back on the water to see them again!