Archontophoenix Maxima in northeast Florida

[shminbabe]

I have four young trees I've grown from seed and plan to put three of them in the ground in front of my house in the same bed as five very tall sabal palms. I am excited to see them grow as it's a good location and these little trees seem to be fast growers. I'm near the ocean in northeast Florida. Anyone growing palms like these here? I have an Archontophoenix Alexandre in my front yard - a mature speciman I got from a local nursery, and it's thriving beautifully. Would love to hear from others about theirs!

[James B]

When you say the Alexandrae is thriving how many winters has it seen?

Alexandrae will more than likely not survive below 28 degrees unless it’s in a very protected spot under canopy.

Perhaps in the perfect location it may survive 26 if for only a few hours.

Maxima is a little more cold hardy than Alexandrae with specimens surviving 24 degrees here in California but with major defoliation/damage.

I am all about zone pushing just keep in mind where you are north of Jacksonville means if you get a winter where it dips below 25 these palms can be at risk.

I used to live in Orlando and Kissimmee but it’s been a while, perhaps some of the members currently living in Florida can give you some insight. 
 

Best of luck growing these palms! Love A.Maxima!

[jreich85]

Depending on where you are in Atlantic Beach, you might have a good microclimate. I know folks in Atlantic and Neptune that live in the neighborhoods with more tree cover that rarely get freezes. I’m just west of the ditch and south of Beach Blvd and have two neighbors with Cunninghamianas (I guess they could be alexandraes) and I think they’re both doing fine so far. One is on the south side of a house with no overhead protection and saw 27 last winter. We gave it some copper fungicide after the freeze for good measure; whether it mattered or not, that tree is looking pretty good right now. I worry about those harsher freezes though. Luckily we haven’t had any in quite a few years.

[sonoranfans]

My maxima, was completely defoliated at 30F save the spear in 2018 but it was 30-32F   for 8-9 hours.  My alexandre triple nearby and partly overhead had same damage, complete save the spears.  The duration of cold is important too.  Out west in desert like areas the drop to freezing is followed by a faster rise the next morning so eastern cold tolerance can be less than out west at least if you use the ultimate low temp as the defining event of the cold snap.  Maybe close enough to the water it is possible.  

[JDawgs]

I live in inland St. John’s county and have a triple king palm. It is in the front of the house and close to it. It got a little damage this January, but is doing well. 

[Lou-StAugFL]

I've had a alex Cunninghamiana in my yard in St. Augustine South for probably 10 years. Only had a slight frost burn once in all those years.  It is somewhat under live oak canopy on one side.  It is huge now.

[NickJames]

@shminbabe (my bestie, I see she found her way on here to make an original post ) lives in an insane microclimate. Between the water and dense canopy, she runs 6-7 degrees warmer than I do in inland Volusia county 150 miles south on a radiational cold night. 

Her only downside to her microclimate is during spring days. She can get really cool days due to sea fog and I can be 20 degrees warmer.

[howfam]

On 8/18/2022 at 11:11 PM, shminbabe said:

I have four young trees I've grown from seed and plan to put three of them in the ground in front of my house in the same bed as five very tall sabal palms. I am excited to see them grow as it's a good location and these little trees seem to be fast growers. I'm near the ocean in northeast Florida. Anyone growing palms like these here? I have an Archontophoenix Alexandre in my front yard - a mature speciman I got from a local nursery, and it's thriving beautifully. Would love to hear from others about theirs!

Hey Shminbabe:

I'm right here in Jacksonville and have observed Archontophoenix on Royal Palm Dr. in Atlantic Beach that survived last winter. I don't know what species, but they had a bit of damage immediately after winter but have recovered their canopies nicely as of last month when I passed by. Check them out on Royal Palm just North of Triton at house on the left. See pics I took last month.  

Edited August 20, 2022 by howfam

[Lou-StAugFL]

I think frost may be more of a problem than the cold.  Because of my live oak canopy even if there is frost there isn't any other the trees.  But it won't help me in a few winters because it is getting so tall now it is going to get above the live oak canopy.  But I have enjoyed it all these  years.

 

[MikeB]

I have not grown A. maxima but have had success with Archontophoenix cunninghamiana in Ponte Vedra Beach.  We are between Atlantic Beach and St. Augustine one half mile inland.  I have about 40 planted out all under canopy.  Some were lost in the winter of 2018.  The trees under the heaviest canopy facing south had no damage. My lowest temp since moving here in 2013 has been 26f.  We are officially 9a.  This pic is more than a year old.  The biggest ones are about 30 feet now.

[MikeB]

1 hour ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

I think frost may be more of a problem than the cold.  Because of my live oak canopy even if there is frost there isn't any other the trees.  But it won't help me in a few winters because it is getting so tall now it is going to get above the live oak canopy.  But I have enjoyed it all these  years.

 

I agree Lou. Some of mine will be poking above the canopy soon and they won't be happy with frost.

[James B]

10 hours ago, howfam said:

Hey Shminbabe:

I'm right here in Jacksonville and have observed Archontophoenix on Royal Palm Dr. in Atlantic Beach that survived last winter. I don't know what species, but they had a bit of damage immediately after winter but have recovered their canopies nicely as of last month when I passed by. Check them out on Royal Palm just North of Triton at house on the left. See pics I took last month.  

Those could be any in the Alexandrae complex: could be Maxima or Alexandrae as both show very similar traits Maxima just gets a bit bigger and grows a bit faster in some cases much faster.

Doubtful they are Tuckeri or Myolensis due to them being more rare but it’s possible.

[MikeB]

6 minutes ago, James B said:

Those could be any in the Alexandrae complex: could be Maxima or Alexandrae as both show very similar traits Maxima just gets a bit bigger and grows a bit faster in some cases much faster.

Doubtful they are Tuckeri or Myolensis due to them being more rare but it’s possible.

There are two nurseries in Jax that I know of that are bringing in big A. alexandraes and selling them to people who are going to be very upset at some point.  One of the owners told me he was only selling them to people at the beach but I have seen them as far inland as 95 in Jax.

[RedRabbit]

22 minutes ago, MikeB said:

I have not grown A. maxima but have had success with Archontophoenix cunninghamiana in Ponte Vedra Beach.  We are between Atlantic Beach and St. Augustine one half mile inland.  I have about 40 planted out all under canopy.  Some were lost in the winter of 2018.  The trees under the heaviest canopy facing south had no damage. My lowest temp since moving here in 2013 has been 26f.  We are officially 9a.  This pic is more than a year old.  The biggest ones are about 30 feet now.

Nice job, I’m impressed they’ve done so well there.

[shminbabe]

On 8/19/2022 at 8:35 AM, James B said:

When you say the Alexandrae is thriving how many winters has it seen?

Alexandrae will more than likely not survive below 28 degrees unless it’s in a very protected spot under canopy.

Perhaps in the perfect location it may survive 26 if for only a few hours.

Maxima is a little more cold hardy than Alexandrae with specimens surviving 24 degrees here in California but with major defoliation/damage.

I am all about zone pushing just keep in mind where you are north of Jacksonville means if you get a winter where it dips below 25 these palms can be at risk.

I used to live in Orlando and Kissimmee but it’s been a while, perhaps some of the members currently living in Florida can give you some insight. 
 

Best of luck growing these palms! Love A.Maxima!

Well, I'm not sure where it came from originally as I acquired it a year and a half ago when it was large enough to need delivery and installation. It didn't see temps in the '20s but I'm told it could handle it.  Within reason. This particular tree isn't under my generous tree canopy so if we do ever get an insanely cold / prolonged freeze it could be vulnerable, I know.  My other trees are pretty well protected by the canopy and I'm so close to the ocean that right here I'm usually ok when others get the freeze.

[James B]

36 minutes ago, MikeB said:

There are two nurseries in Jax that I know of that are bringing in big A. alexandraes and selling them to people who are going to be very upset at some point.  One of the owners told me he was only selling them to people at the beach but I have seen them as far inland as 95 in Jax.

Nothing wrong with zone pushing. I have palms that nobody was trying in Rancho Cucamonga that are doing great here.

As an experienced grower I know what is a marginal palm in my heat zone and climate zone so I accept the risk.

All I’d ask of a grower is to issue a warning to the buyer to purchase at your own risk. 

[shminbabe]

11 hours ago, howfam said:

Hey Shminbabe:

I'm right here in Jacksonville and have observed Archontophoenix on Royal Palm Dr. in Atlantic Beach that survived last winter. I don't know what species, but they had a bit of damage immediately after winter but have recovered their canopies nicely as of last month when I passed by. Check them out on Royal Palm just North of Triton at house on the left. See pics I took last month.  

Ok, that's hilarious, I drive past this house almost every day and I too have been observing those palms! Since they have no protection I was watching how they bounced back from the freeze.  But they are recovering nicely! (Does anyone live in that house?!)

[howfam]

6 minutes ago, shminbabe said:

Ok, that's hilarious, I drive past this house almost every day and I too have been observing those palms! Since they have no protection I was watching how they bounced back from the freeze.  But they are recovering nicely! (Does anyone live in that house?!)

I don't know whether the house is occupied or not. I'd like to know which species those palms are and how long they've been there.

[MikeB]

59 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Nice job, I’m impressed they’ve done so well there.

Thank you but it's all about location in my marginal climate.  When they are killed I will replant because they grow so fast but they might be around for a long time.  A risk worth taking.

[DoomsDave]

If you can keep a "Slapsie Maxie" happy, it'll grow fast and do you proud.

The one pictured below is right out my front door, planted Christmas 2006, just in time for our big freeze of January 2007. 

Worth a shot!

Keep us apprised @shminbabe!

[NickJames]

1 hour ago, MikeB said:

I have not grown A. maxima but have had success with Archontophoenix cunninghamiana in Ponte Vedra Beach.  We are between Atlantic Beach and St. Augustine one half mile inland.  I have about 40 planted out all under canopy.  Some were lost in the winter of 2018.  The trees under the heaviest canopy facing south had no damage. My lowest temp since moving here in 2013 has been 26f.  We are officially 9a.  This pic is more than a year old.  The biggest ones are about 30 feet now.

I administrate the weather station at her house.

It’s currently down, but hadn’t recorded a freeze since 2010. 

The coldest in the last decade was when it hit 32.9 in 2018. 

[DoomsDave]

3 minutes ago, NickJames said:

I administrate the weather station at her house.

It’s currently down, but hadn’t recorded a freeze since 2010. 

The coldest in the last decade was when it hit 32.9 in 2018. 

Slapsie Maxie should thrive! No jive . . . . 

[MikeB]

9 minutes ago, NickJames said:

I administrate the weather station at her house.

It’s currently down, but hadn’t recorded a freeze since 2010. 

The coldest in the last decade was when it hit 32.9 in 2018. 

That is an amazing microclimate! In 2018 we had two separate events in January.  My lowest was 26. Shminbabe, I have a couple Royals for you if you want.

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

I administrate the weather station at her house.

It’s currently down, but hadn’t recorded a freeze since 2010. 

The coldest in the last decade was when it hit 32.9 in 2018. 

Every other weather station disagrees with that 2018 reading…

[shminbabe]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:33 PM, howfam said:

I don't know whether the house is occupied or not. I'd like to know which species those palms are and how long they've been there.

Do you think they could be Adonidia Merrillii ? I believe they were planted there maybe two - three years ago? I'll ask my bestie to weigh in on this. I was eyeing them after the freeze and while they did take some damage, the trees are fine. I'd sent him some pics of them last winter and we wondered, since they are exposed under an open sky, if the damage would prove fatal but it did not.

[Johnny Palmseed]

12 hours ago, shminbabe said:

Do you think they could be Adonidia Merrillii ? I believe they were planted there maybe two - three years ago? I'll ask my bestie to weigh in on this. I was eyeing them after the freeze and while they did take some damage, the trees are fine. I'd sent him some pics of them last winter and we wondered, since they are exposed under an open sky, if the damage would prove fatal but it did not.

No the Adonidia have more rachis curvature and wider leaflets which tend to form a narrow “v” shape.

[SeanK]

On 8/19/2022 at 5:45 PM, Lou-StAugFL said:

I've had a alex Cunninghamiana in my yard in St. Augustine South for probably 10 years. Only had a slight frost burn once in all those years.  It is somewhat under live oak canopy on one side.  It is huge now.

I've seen screw pine on the way to Marineland, out in the open. How does that compare for cold hardiness?

[Blueman]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:33 PM, James B said:

Those could be any in the Alexandrae complex: could be Maxima or Alexandrae as both show very similar traits Maxima just gets a bit bigger and grows a bit faster in some cases much faster.

Doubtful they are Tuckeri or Myolensis due to them being more rare but it’s possible.

 

Agree.  From what I've seen, few people can accurately identify Archontophoenix species, including some growers & collectors.  There's a useful key that John Leslie Dowe did several years ago.  

Since Myolensis & tuckeri grow in low elevation tropics, they're likely to be very cold sensitive, possibly the most cold sensitive Archontophoenix.  Cunnighamiana has green undersides with ramenta, easy to ID, but often mislabeled.  Maybe tages get lost or the seeds are misnamed in the first place.  Since cunninghamiana has the largest range by far, and grows at sea level to 1,200 meters, cold hardiness varies a lot.  Purpurea also has ramenta, but with white undersides.  The purplish crownshaft confirms it.

I've seen the 5 (non-purpurea) species mixed up often enough that I'm leery of them being misnamed.  Cunninghamiana's ramenta are a giveaway to those who look for them, but the other 4 can be a matter of blind faith with immature plants.  Trunk width & height varies with soil and moisture, and may not be helpful.  My sand-grown alexandrae, cunninghamiana, & maxima all have slender trunks.  

[MikeB]

The single Archontophoenix alexandra made it through winter with damage but has since grown out of it.  I think the neighbors liked it and got a couple for themselves.  These are in Jax Beach at 9th St. and Millie.  No overhead protection.

[James B]

Wow, might be time for people to stop saying Alexandrae is a 10a Palm. 

[Lou-StAugFL]

Here is my King Palm right now in the St. Augustine South subdivision just south of Flagler Hospital.  I think it is  15'+ in height right now.  I keep pulling that pothos vine off the trunk, but it keeps returning.  I think it is a Alex Cunninghamiana, that's how it was labeled years ago when I purchased it.  It has performed very well here for at least a decade.  They really should be grown in protected locations more often in this part of the state especially near the beaches and Intracoastal Waterway and the St. Johns River in those great microclimates since they do so well.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Lou-StAugFL

[MikeB]

2 hours ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

Here is my King Palm right now in the St. Augustine South subdivision just south of Flagler Hospital.  I think it is  15'+ in height right now.  I keep pulling that pothos vine off the trunk, but it keeps returning.  I think it is a Alex Cunninghamiana, that's how it was labeled years ago when I purchased it.  It has performed very well here for at least a decade.  They really should be grown in protected locations more often in this part of the state especially near the beaches and Intracoastal Waterway and the St. Johns River in those great microclimates since they do so well. 

Crownshafted palms in north Florida are very rare.  That's a beauty.  Great color. 

[Lou-StAugFL]

Another good size Alex palm in downtown St. Augustine.  Been there for many years too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8955329,-81.319959,3a,75y,181.01h,104.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZwI2zuDrnpQzy-e56AlO4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[kinzyjr]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:13 PM, James B said:

Wow, might be time for people to stop saying Alexandrae is a 10a Palm. 

I agree.  In the expanded zone scheme I used for my maps, I'd say more like 9b under canopy or in a dry environment with little or no frost.

[NickJames]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:33 AM, RedRabbit said:

Every other weather station disagrees with that 2018 reading…

It’s a bizarre microclimate. I’m sure it has to do with the canopy. That night I hit 24.9 in Fernandina Beach. You can imagine my outrage when I checked hers and it was 32.9. 

[NickJames]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:33 AM, RedRabbit said:

Every other weather station disagrees with that 2018 reading…

And apart from the actual thermometer reading, she certainly didn’t have damage to her vast gardens of gingers, philodendron, etc. It’s just a very strange microclimate that should be studied. Lol. 

[shminbabe]

We tried to study it but the $300 weather station never performed properly. So now I follow this other person's, who is just over on Brista, and probably has my microclimate.

[Brian M]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, MikeB said:

The single Archontophoenix alexandra made it through winter with damage but has since grown out of it.  I think the neighbors liked it and got a couple for themselves.  These are in Jax Beach at 9th St. and Millie.  No overhead protection.

I believe all 3 are owned by the same house. The one by itself was replaced after last year's winter and the other two definitely benefited from their proximity to the oak tree although they had plenty of browning as well. All 3 got fried again this year even covered up with lows around 25. Interested to see how they progress especially if we get another cold snap.

[Fishinsteeg234]

Keep us posted @Brian M

[Brian M]

The two in the open got smoked. The one closest to the oak is pushing out new growth albeit got burnt good too. Definitely not viable in warm 9a without a canopy and even then I wouldn't expect a long prosperous life.