Livistona palms

[Saara]

Hi! I changed the pot for the palm trees, Livistona chinensis and Saribus rotundifonia, to a deep pot of ceramis - pine bark - leca mix 2/5 - 2/5 - 1/5. It had been in bad soil and in a low pot. I move it to the half shadow (2m from south window. Other is next to the other window. 

I had thrips (midsommer time) and I used systematic poison for my plants. Yesterday they came back (only one plant Strelitzia). I need to poison every plant again just for case.

It's been about two weeks and I'm worried about my Chinensis palm; black spots and more leaves dying. I noticed today that I planted Livistona chinensis too deep and I taked extra soil away. I can see some the damage caused by poison (used for thrips).

What are those black dots?

What should be done with this Livistona Chinensis palm tree?

Will these survive?

Thank you!

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Saara

[Saara]

What's wrong?

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Saara

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Is it cold where you live? Because the damage in both palms looks like the cold damage that my Licuala Grandis got because I planted it in winter.

[Saara]

16 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Is it cold where you live? Because the damage in both palms looks like the cold damage that my Licuala Grandis got because I planted it in winter.

It's 23 degrees inside. I watered my plants with warm water. I kept a towel around the pot for a few days (after one week). Is it possible? I did not keep plant in my bathroom because floor is not warm, only battery (and space is limited). Now I moved it on that battery 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Saara

[Saara]

5 minutes ago, Saara said:

It's 23 degrees inside. I watered my plants with warm water. I kept a towel around the pot for a few days (after one week). Is it possible? I did not keep plant in my bathroom because floor is not warm, only battery (and space is limited). Now I moved it on that battery 

 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

The temperature seems fine, is there any air conditioner near the palms? That's another common error because palms can dry up due to the artificial air, especially if it's too cold or too warm.

[Saara]

20 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

The temperature seems fine, is there any air conditioner near the palms? That's another common error because palms can dry up due to the artificial air, especially if it's too cold or too warm.

You are right. My palm get worse after poisoning for thrips and air conditional and battery in the bathroom. There should be wet, but sometimes it works too well. Stem looks alive (not soft at all). And after poisoning it makes black spots on the leaves (before this condition). I had to poison all my plants and anyway this plant is easy target. 

[Saara]

Other palm will survive, I quess 

[PalmsandLiszt]

19 hours ago, Saara said:

My palm get worse after poisoning for thrips and air conditional and battery in the bathroom. There should be wet, but sometimes it works too well. Stem looks alive (not soft at all). And after poisoning it makes black spots on the leaves (before this condition). I had to poison all my plants and anyway this plant is easy target. 

 

This one just looks starved of water. I think you are using an extremely free-draining mix that will need watering very much more often that a peat- or loam-based soil in a low-humidity environment; maybe as much as daily or every two days. I also think your palms might be reacting out of transplant shock into a very different medium. If they were in a nursery medium and you removed it all then the roots will be ill-adjusted to the new media and won't work properly, hence be unable to supply the leaves with water. Plants will grow physically different roots according to the substrate; you need to let them regrow their roots and ensure they don't dry out in the meantime.
Also, ask @Pal Meir, who is the world-expert on this substrate. He might have grown these palms (which I haven't); I don't think this mix works well for everything.

What are you treating the thrips with? In a very well-draining medium, the top layer will dry out very quickly and thrips shouldn't be a problem. I think it's more likely you're getting root death from transport shock and the thrips are taking advantage of this. You can buy predatory mites to eat thrips (I think—or maybe that was fungus gnats), which I'd certainly do rather than use chemicals.
Check for spider mites, too. Some of the leaf-blotching in your photos could be explained by their presence.

[PalmsandLiszt]

I shouldn't hold your breath for the palm above, by the way; the new spike looks dessicated and brown, so its survival probability doesn't look very good. The Saribus should absolutely pull through, though.

[Saara]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:25 AM, PalmsandLiszt said:

This one just looks starved of water. I think you are using an extremely free-draining mix that will need watering very much more often that a peat- or loam-based soil in a low-humidity environment; maybe as much as daily or every two days. I also think your palms might be reacting out of transplant shock into a very different medium. If they were in a nursery medium and you removed it all then the roots will be ill-adjusted to the new media and won't work properly, hence be unable to supply the leaves with water. Plants will grow physically different roots according to the substrate; you need to let them regrow their roots and ensure they don't dry out in the meantime.
Also, ask @Pal Meir, who is the world-expert on this substrate. He might have grown these palms (which I haven't); I don't think this mix works well for everything.

What are you treating the thrips with? In a very well-draining medium, the top layer will dry out very quickly and thrips shouldn't be a problem. I think it's more likely you're getting root death from transport shock and the thrips are taking advantage of this. You can buy predatory mites to eat thrips (I think—or maybe that was fungus gnats), which I'd certainly do rather than use chemicals.
Check for spider mites, too. Some of the leaf-blotching in your photos could be explained by their presence.

Thank you!

I just noticed this message.

This was new information for me; "Plants will grow physically different roots according to the substrate;". I think you are right. I have successfully transport chambeyronia macrocarpa palm to something 50/50 seramis/pine bark or 60/40. That probably works better for me. 

I did use systematic poison for all my plants.

I do not have high hopes for this plant. I did change soil to 50/50 seramis/pine bark and used hydrogen peroxide before repotting. All the smallest roots were gone so plant will be thirsty. 

I have not contacted to Pal Meir.

Other palm survived.

[Saara]

This survived. I cut dry brown leaves away. Picture from this day. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Saara

[Saara]

I had also used the previously used "disinfected" ceramis/pine bark mixture for this Livistona chinensis palm tree. I baked it, but I was wondering if it is still possible that if there is moisture left, the mixture has gone bad during storage? That would perhaps explain the surface mold that came on the surface of the mixture of other palms (howea fosteriana) even though I had watered when I felt it was necessary and the same as for the others (Chamaedorea elegans) that were completely taken from the new bags (which are doing well and all three planted in it survived)

[PalmsandLiszt]

14 hours ago, Saara said:

This was new information for me; "Plants will grow physically different roots according to the substrate;". I think you are right. I have successfully transport chambeyronia macrocarpa palm to something 50/50 seramis/pine bark or 60/40. That probably works better for me. 

I only use this mixture for things that are (potentially) very sensitive and grow in very high-humidiy environments; I use it for joeys and sabinaria seedlings and they have done fine, but these have grown in it since the seed so don't have any shock. I have some Licuala seedlings and a Keriodoxa that would would probably also like it (modified a bit), but I'd not wash the original substrate away, and keep the outer portions well watered while the plant grows new roots.

Chambeyronia really don't need this level of fuss. Mine does fine in loam-based medium with pumice, seramis, etc. added to improve drainage.

15 hours ago, Saara said:

I do not have high hopes for this plant. I did change soil to 50/50 seramis/pine bark and used hydrogen peroxide before repotting. All the smallest roots were gone so plant will be thirsty. 

I don't think this looks good. It looked fine beforehand; why did you put it into this new substrate?

15 hours ago, Saara said:

I have not contacted to Pal Meir.

I tagged him in the hope he might offer his expertise to you, but either he hasn't noticed or didn't want to. I'll do it again for good measure: @Pal Meir

I don't know Pal Meir; I have only read many of his excellent and informative posts throughout the years.

15 hours ago, Saara said:

This survived. I cut dry brown leaves away. Picture from this day. 

That looks healthy. If you're going to put plants near a radiator, have a lot more plants.

6 hours ago, Saara said:

I had also used the previously used "disinfected" ceramis/pine bark mixture for this Livistona chinensis palm tree. I baked it, but I was wondering if it is still possible that if there is moisture left, the mixture has gone bad during storage?

Wet media and put it in a plastic bag (with holes) in the microwave on high for 3-4 minutes to sterilise it; nothing will survive that. I'm not sure what you mean by 'bake'.

[Saara]

1 hour ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

I only use this mixture for things that are (potentially) very sensitive and grow in very high-humidiy environments; I use it for joeys and sabinaria seedlings and they have done fine, but these have grown in it since the seed so don't have any shock. I have some Licuala seedlings and a Keriodoxa that would would probably also like it (modified a bit), but I'd not wash the original substrate away, and keep the outer portions well watered while the plant grows new roots.

Chambeyronia really don't need this level of fuss. Mine does fine in loam-based medium with pumice, seramis, etc. added to improve drainage.

I don't think this looks good. It looked fine beforehand; why did you put it into this new substrate?

I tagged him in the hope he might offer his expertise to you, but either he hasn't noticed or didn't want to. I'll do it again for good measure: @Pal Meir

I don't know Pal Meir; I have only read many of his excellent and informative posts throughout the years.

That looks healthy. If you're going to put plants near a radiator, have a lot more plants.

Wet media and put it in a plastic bag (with holes) in the microwave on high for 3-4 minutes to sterilise it; nothing will survive that. I'm not sure what you mean by 'bake'.

Thank you! Next time I will not wash all the the original substrate away.  

It was my idea to change to 50/50. 

I did get help earlier from @maxum2610