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crossbreeding a Bismarckia


palm and cactus collector

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I’m planting 3 silver bismarcks from seed. Also thinking of getting a W. Robusta. Is it possible to cross-breed these palms? if so, i’d love to see names you can come up with for this.

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Most certainly not. They are likely too distantly related to hybridize. You would need a course in palm genetics to understand why.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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@palm and cactus collector Welcome to PalmTalk.  Bismarckia are more closely related to Latania, Medemia, and Hyphaene.  If there is any chance of hybridization, it would be with something more closely related.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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7 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@palm and cactus collector Welcome to PalmTalk.  Bismarckia are more closely related to Latania, Medemia, and Hyphaene.  If there is any chance of hybridization, it would be with something more closely related.

I have previously thought that - if it is possible - a Bismarckia nobilis Borassus aethiopium cross would make for an interesting specimen.  If endowed with hybrid vigor, it would also likely be huge and grow 42ft per year. lol

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1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

I have previously thought that - if it is possible - a Bismarckia nobilis Borassus aethiopium cross would make for an interesting specimen.  If endowed with hybrid vigor, it would also likely be huge and grow 42ft per year. lol

They aren't that far apart on the phylogenic tree, but if it gets done it will be by someone more ambitious than me.  I have both, but neither are flowering at this point.

PhylogenicTreeModifiedPortion.jpg

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Imagine a multi-headed Bismarckia x Hyphaene with hybrid vigor!

Andrei W. Konradi, Burlingame, California.  Vicarious appreciator of palms in other people's gardens and in habitat

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13 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

They aren't that far apart on the phylogenic tree, but if it gets done it will be by someone more ambitious than me.  I have both, but neither are flowering at this point.

PhylogenicTreeModifiedPortion.jpg

Source? This is a fascinating chart and I’d love to see the whole thing. 

Stacey Wright  |  Graphic Designer

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Yep, that's the chart I was hoping for! And it explains why crosses like "Foxy Lady" (Veitchia + Wodyetia) are possible. Two questions if anyone here happens to know...

1) Crossing two related Genus:
Is there any type of general guidance as to how far you can travel on the family tree? Using Dypsis as an example, would a Dypsis Leptocheilos x Marojejya ("Big Leaf Bear") be theoretically possible since they are close relatives? Or could one go further on the tree and make a Dypsis Leptocheilos x Verschaffeltia ("Stilt Root Bear")?

2) Crossing within a single (diverse) Genus:
Again using Dypsis (since a lot of hybridization goes on with that one)... Is it theoretically possible to cross a huge "big boy" dypsis with an ankle biter one? I'm assuming not based on the size difference. The most extreme I've heard of was Dypsis cabadae x Dypsis dacaryi ("White Triangle") which seems like a pretty big stretch between two palm types cosmetically. Wondering if there are any rules as to what can be hybridized within a single genus.

The idea of hybridization is intriguing to me partly because a own a TON of Dypsis palms now, and am thinking they might get crossed (either intentionally or accidentally) at some point. Curious what types of combinations would be theoretically possible. :interesting:

Stacey Wright  |  Graphic Designer

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2 hours ago, iDesign said:

Yep, that's the chart I was hoping for! And it explains why crosses like "Foxy Lady" (Veitchia + Wodyetia) are possible. Two questions if anyone here happens to know...

1) Crossing two related Genus:
Is there any type of general guidance as to how far you can travel on the family tree? Using Dypsis as an example, would a Dypsis Leptocheilos x Marojejya ("Big Leaf Bear") be theoretically possible since they are close relatives? Or could one go further on the tree and make a Dypsis Leptocheilos x Verschaffeltia ("Stilt Root Bear")?

2) Crossing within a single (diverse) Genus:
Again using Dypsis (since a lot of hybridization goes on with that one)... Is it theoretically possible to cross a huge "big boy" dypsis with an ankle biter one? I'm assuming not based on the size difference. The most extreme I've heard of was Dypsis cabadae x Dypsis dacaryi ("White Triangle") which seems like a pretty big stretch between two palm types cosmetically. Wondering if there are any rules as to what can be hybridized within a single genus.

The idea of hybridization is intriguing to me partly because a own a TON of Dypsis palms now, and am thinking they might get crossed (either intentionally or accidentally) at some point. Curious what types of combinations would be theoretically possible. :interesting:

I'm hardly an expert, but in general, Interspecific hybrids (two palms in the same genus) are easier crosses than Intergeneric hybrids (Palms in different genera).  Interspecific hybrids with Phoenix are so common in Florida you have to assume any seed you pick up is a mutt.  The most commonly sought after intergeneric hybrid down here is the aforementioned Foxy Lady.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Does this mean Archontophoenix can hybridize with Chambeyronia? Because a hybrid with the red leaf but faster growth would be pretty awesome.

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it's pretty neat that at least according to this corypha is more related to caryota than tahina, I would never have guessed from looking

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22 hours ago, miamicuse said:

That's an awesome diagram, thanks for the link!  I would have never guessed that palms like Gaussia were closest relatives to Chamaedorea...but I was pretty sure that Arenga/Caryota/Wallichia were all very closely related.  But putting the fishtail palms in with Corypha, Bismarckia and Tahina?  That seems really bizarre.  I'd assume there is some strong evidence in their plastome genomics...

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A few other members on the forums ( @Swolte + @Dimovi ) were the original ones who shared the Phylogenic tree with me. 

According to @sarasota alex in this thread, this graphic may be a bit dated:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61711-palm-phylogenomics-dna-rna-based-classification/ 

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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If you want to zoom in indefinitely download the SVG version that I exported from the research paper.

palm_phylogenomics.svg

SVG phylogenetic_tree

When it comes to crossings plants it is important to note that the terms species, genus, family etc were created when we knew nothing about genes. When it comes to hybrids the closer the relationship the more likely it will be successful. That is why there is no "rule" for successful crossing of plants based on taxonomy.

 

 

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