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How does this flame thrower look?


Breaktheory

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Hello…

I saw this 15G flame thrower - one of the 2 fronds is not in good shape but the other looks good - is this plant in good health, don’t see a ton of these around in 15G

 

Thanks!

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I think it's worth it. Probably would do much better getting planted in the ground. Plenty of water and fertilizer it will be beautiful in a few years.

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It was at a random place off the highway…strange to see something besides queens and pindos there

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Just a heads-up that there are a few "non-flaming" ones out there.

Ideally you would catch it when doing the "flamethrower" thing to confirm it's indeed one of the red ones. 

* Most of mine are the normal red, but one is a deep maroon (which I love), one is salmon (which is ok, but not as pretty), and the smallest one throws a green leaf (I'm hoping it will grow out of it).  Only way to know for sure would be to catch it in the act, but that's only possible if they carry a lot of them... or you visit often. Not to discourage you... everyone should have a flamethrower in their yard!!!

 

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Stacey Wright  |  Graphic Designer

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I think it looks more than fine. I don’t know the frond you speak of that doesn’t look good. I’d love my Macrocarpa to look that good. Mine is adjusting/acclimating and has been for over a year.  Chambeyronia push out maybe 3 fronds a year so if the frond fries, your gonna be in for a multiple year turnaround. Just a caution. 
 

-dale

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My neighbor has a super nice Macrocarpa that doesn’t flame. Green as can be year round and it’s awesome in my opinion.  Not much beats the structure of a Chambeyronia. It’s up the list of perfect palms at the very minumum. 
 

-dale

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16 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

That would be a letdown to discover this was non flaming in 6 months! 

Safest is to catch it in the act, but you'd need to go to a place with lots of flamethrowers in stock to do that.

If you're up for a road trip, Rancho Soledad has VERY tall flamethrowers, and usually has one "flaming" when I visit, but not always. They bring them in from Hawaii. Here's my tallest one (that cost $350 because it had a watermelon trunk). Those without watermelon pattern are less...

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Rancho Soledad is relatively expensive compared to many of the other sellers here.  Maybe ask in the "Palms Wanted" whether anyone in the LA area has any guaranteed "flamers" for sale? I personally would be hesitant to buy a flamethrower from a nursery that doesn't normally sell them (as it could be a non-flamer). I do agree they're beautiful either way, but do love the red color :wub:

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Stacey Wright  |  Graphic Designer

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Slightly off topic, I have a C. macrocarpa 'hookeri' in my greenhouse.  Each new leaf has only the barest hint of color. 

Is the color dependent on direct UV ?  (That is, would the color be stronger if exposed to direct sun out of doors?)

Can this palm exhibit stronger color as it becomes more mature ?

At the current color level, I would  just discard this palm

I can post an image of my plant tomorrow, thanks for your comments !

San Francisco, California

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2 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Slightly off topic, I have a C. macrocarpa 'hookeri' in my greenhouse.  Each new leaf has only the barest hint of color...

It's definitely not the fact that it's a 'hookeri' as my hookeri has the best color of all of my flamethrowers. Photo below shows my one hookeri + a macrocarpa I picked up (from Bluebell nursery) the same day. Bluebell had a ton of flamethrowers at the time, so I had the luxury of picking two with confirmed red coloring.  The hookeri (on the right) has become my favorite color-wise, but color obviously varies a lot from palm to palm. I'm also curious what the factors are, and wouldn't personally buy a flamethrower at this point without seeing some red (or getting assurance from the seller that it's a flamer).

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Stacey Wright  |  Graphic Designer

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Stacey, I was told that the 'hookeri' form has the highest probability of good color, so this is a big disappointment.  :(

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San Francisco, California

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I have a green non flamer, not even a hint of color. Looks like it’s going to have a watermelon trunk so it’s staying.

Heres my biggest flamethrower. Hookeri variety. The first leaf is from July of last year. Dark maroon. The next leaf is 5 months later in December., bright read. I’ve noticed that the leafs are much brighter red and last longer when the weather is a little bit cooler.

Also not an expert but I’ve never seen a green leaf Hookeri.  @Darold Petty they change color as the mature. In my opinion the red on small flamethrowers is underwhelming. They seem to start to impress at about 15g size.

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Edited by Dusty CBAD
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I will post an image of my palm tomorrow.  Thanks

San Francisco, California

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15 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Stacey, I was told that the 'hookeri' form has the highest probability of good color, so this is a big disappointment.  :(

Darold, most people that I know who have both Var. Macrocarpa and Var. Hookeri, their Hookeri is a much deeper red, almost maroon color and typically the Macrocarpa’s are Salmon to muted red in color. Regarding sun…my Hookeri loves, loves the sun. My Macrocarpa def does not do as well in sun. If it were mine….I’d throw it in the sun and see if that flame changes to the more coveted maroon. 
 

-dale

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Looks normal.  They are not as slow as most people think.  Mine was from a 2 gal in 2007.  It is over 20 ft with about 7ft of wood.  

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Mine has to be in deep shade because I’m in hell never have had a red frond only slightly maroon but I love the palm the fronds are special when I first saw one at jungle music I didn’t know it was a flame thrower but loved the fronds asked what it was and discovered it was a flame thrower!! I would love it to have a red frond but am not expecting it in dry shady location!!

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6 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Slightly off topic, I have a C. macrocarpa 'hookeri' in my greenhouse.  Each new leaf has only the barest hint of color. 

Is the color dependent on direct UV ?  (That is, would the color be stronger if exposed to direct sun out of doors?)

Can this palm exhibit stronger color as it becomes more mature ?

At the current color level, I would  just discard this palm

I can post an image of my plant tomorrow, thanks for your comments !

Hi Darold,

Im in Western Australia and my hookerii’s leaves are better in the shade. 1st image is in the front garden under canopy, 2nd / 3rd is full sun

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13 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

It was at a random place off the highway…strange to see something besides queens and pindos there

Looks like you were at Growing Grounds in Camarillo, right at the base of the Conejo grade. My cousin actually used to be the manager there many years ago. I browse there every once in awhile. I was just there last week. Didn’t buy anything this last time but I did also buy a Chambeyronia Macrocarpa in the past. I also bought a Sabal bermudana there once. Unfortunately that one perished.

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58 minutes ago, The Gerg said:

Looks like you were at Growing Grounds in Camarillo, right at the base of the Conejo grade. My cousin actually used to be the manager there many years ago. I browse there every once in awhile. I was just there last week. Didn’t buy anything this last time but I did also buy a Chambeyronia Macrocarpa in the past. I also bought a Sabal bermudana there once. Unfortunately that one perished.

Yes! Growing grounds… that’s where I was. A lot of their palms look withered and there are some Queens marked as Kings so I wasn’t sure how quality the plants are.

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1 minute ago, Breaktheory said:

Yes! Growing grounds… that’s where I was. A lot of their palms look withered and there are some Queens marked as Kings so I wasn’t sure how quality the plants are.

I think their stuff is pretty good. I think for the most part they know what they’re doing. As for the mislabeled pot, my guess is they just re-use a lot of pots and didnt get this one relabeled. Just a guess.

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40 minutes ago, The Gerg said:

I think their stuff is pretty good. I think for the most part they know what they’re doing. As for the mislabeled pot, my guess is they just re-use a lot of pots and didnt get this one relabeled. Just a guess.

It’s the nicest in that strip of Camarillo nurseries along the 101 - is there anywhere else you visit in the 805 area? There’s a place called Plant Warehouse in Somis that has some nice stuff but seems hard to find quality plants up here.

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I purchased a Howea forsteriana from that nursery.  It was really overgrown, in a 15 gallon pot, and was a tremendous bargain at $89.  I didn't have a spot for it, and purchased it just because it was such a good deal, later sending it onward to a friend.  My favorite nursery down there is the Green Thumb, on Victoria St in Ventura. 

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San Francisco, California

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Here is my under-performing C. hookeri,  the base is about 1.75-2.0 inches in diameter (5 cm).  Will this palm ever develop stronger color ?  

I don't want to hijack Breaktheory's post, I would purchase the palm he shows.  I love the wide, leathery leaflets, even when green.

Thanks to all for the comments !

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San Francisco, California

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These are handsome palms and can be quite variable, wether a red emergent leaf or entirely green. Of the five in the garden, four are C. macrocarpa and one is a C. hookeri. Two macrocarpa were specifically acquired as the ‘watermelon’ type, but as the other two matured, they all develop the same variegated markings on the crown shaft. One has always had a green emergent leaf and I doubt this form will ever develop a red leaf. 

C. macrocarpa seedlings I have seen and that come up at the base of the mother plant, some show the red leaf almost immediately, and some take a bit more time, but they usually throw a red leaf very early on. 

The C. hookeri, on the other hand, is a spectacular palm. I was lucky enough to get one that always has a deep maroon emergent leaf and it’s at least twelve years old. What’s nice about this particular palm is that the crown is visible from a second story lanai and I’ll always be able to enjoy the new leaf. The other macrocarpa are now so tall that the red color can only be see by the birds. 

 

Tim

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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I might roll the dice on that 15g one, if I were in your position.   It’s got a good base.  A little water, the right light and heat, and some good fertilizer, and it will pop.  It will take time though.  I bet in a year or two, you’d be happy.  

I got 2 macrocarpa and 2 hookerii 1g from Floribunda last year.  One macrocarpa didn’t make it, but the rest did well.  They are now 3g and ripe for planting.  The hookerii grew a little faster here, but overall pretty slow.  They all throw different leaves, from brownish red, to maroon, to bright red.   The good color only lasts a few days here, it seems to fade faster in the sun.  

This one opened a couple days ago.   

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Mine is in deep shade because I’m in hell it would never make it in sun and it grows fine 2 fronds a year!!

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16 hours ago, Billeb said:

Darold, most people that I know who have both Var. Macrocarpa and Var. Hookeri, their Hookeri is a much deeper red, almost maroon color and typically the Macrocarpa’s are Salmon to muted red in color. Regarding sun…my Hookeri loves, loves the sun. My Macrocarpa def does not do as well in sun. If it were mine….I’d throw it in the sun and see if that flame changes to the more coveted maroon. 
 

-dale

My hookeri is very bright red. Of my eight Chambeyronia, the only maroon one is a macrocarpa. 
 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

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24 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

My hookeri is very bright red. Of my eight Chambeyronia, the only maroon one is a macrocarpa. 
 

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So weird…..mine is in literally full sun 24/7 and it pushes a really maroon frond. Way too many variables with this genus I suppose. 
 

-dale

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56 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

My hookeri is very bright red. Of my eight Chambeyronia, the only maroon one is a macrocarpa. 
 

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I am leaning to the idea that its all in the individual genetic makeup.  While my two hookeri seem a deeper red to maroon they are not even the same color.  My two macrocarpa are also red though one is a more glowing rose color, the other one looks like the less intense of the two red hookeri.  They turn fast in warm weather/direct sun and seem to persist in color more in cooler weather and deeper shade.  My hookeri are more optically dense in the leaf, the intensity of color is best when watching sun transmit through the leaf.  The macrocarpa is a more intense color in shade but can be a little orange in direct sun.  So the optical density of the hookeri makes it look more dull, not as intense in deep shade, but better color in bright sunlight.  Might be that the variation in each is the same, you can get any of the above with either species.  I once walked a local nursery that had more than 20 of these in bloom(there were 100 or so).  Very few were green in an opening leaf, but they had a range of color depth from cherry to deeper red.  All were macrocarpa but the variation I saw could include my hookeri.  With plant genetics, you can get a lot of variety in seed.watermelonjan2021n2.thumb.jpg.14467a2039b870c683ba30467b5294a7.jpgonfireTOP.thumb.jpg.ab111d390bb1591b04d580fd63f5e758.jpghookeri2.thumb.JPG.0e27a87481428d74f87db2f6e001beb6.JPGHookeriRF.thumb.JPG.f1e11a73c095f8b3300cc27d4e09cbd7.JPG

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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6 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

I purchased a Howea forsteriana from that nursery.  It was really overgrown, in a 15 gallon pot, and was a tremendous bargain at $89.  I didn't have a spot for it, and purchased it just because it was such a good deal, later sending it onward to a friend.  My favorite nursery down there is the Green Thumb, on Victoria St in Ventura. 

I just went there today. I have gotten a couple of rarer palms there. A previous manager there used to be a real palm enthusiast so they would get some cool stuff. He retired. Now the cool stuff is a little fewer and far between. They do carry Palmgain which has been a recent topic of discussion.

 

Anyways @Breaktheory, more motivation below. These are hookerii and the pics are from Jan. 2021. No recent pics. This is mostly shaded.

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Below is the actual palm I got at Growing Grounds. It is in full sun and exposed to all elements including some fierce Santa Ana winds. You can see the leaf gets a little beat up.

It gets a little bit of protection from the two queens you see in the pics (which were bought at the Plant Warehouse in Somis that you mentioned), but I plan to widen the driveway and remove the queens soon. For now, they provide a little bit of afternoon sun protection.

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Either way it is an awesome palm to have in the garden and a good investment. Trunk looks good and remaining leaves look good. I would check if there is a new leaf spear starting to come up

cheers Brad.

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6 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I am leaning to the idea that its all in the individual genetic makeup.  While my two hookeri seem a deeper red to maroon they are not even the same color.  My two macrocarpa are also red though one is a more glowing rose color, the other one looks like the less intense of the two red hookeri.  They turn fast in warm weather/direct sun and seem to persist in color more in cooler weather and deeper shade.  My hookeri are more optically dense in the leaf, the intensity of color is best when watching sun transmit through the leaf.  The macrocarpa is a more intense color in shade but can be a little orange in direct sun.  So the optical density of the hookeri makes it look more dull, not as intense in deep shade, but better color in bright sunlight.  Might be that the variation in each is the same, you can get any of the above with either species.  I once walked a local nursery that had more than 20 of these in bloom(there were 100 or so).  Very few were green in an opening leaf, but they had a range of color depth from cherry to deeper red.  All were macrocarpa but the variation I saw could include my hookeri.  With plant genetics, you can get a lot of variety in seed.watermelonjan2021n2.thumb.jpg.14467a2039b870c683ba30467b5294a7.jpgonfireTOP.thumb.jpg.ab111d390bb1591b04d580fd63f5e758.jpghookeri2.thumb.JPG.0e27a87481428d74f87db2f6e001beb6.JPGHookeriRF.thumb.JPG.f1e11a73c095f8b3300cc27d4e09cbd7.JPG

My macrocarpa send out everything from deep maroon to pink to fiery orange. I do believe it’s genetics. I don’t have a photo of my maroon one but it’s easily the fastest grower and very very robust for the species. 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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