Chamaedorea tuerckheimii

[XYZ]

Well, since for ages Jason C. has been doing most of the heavy lifting on this forum to try and keep the average palm collector focused on the health and emotional benefits to be derived from growing the premier palm genus ("Chamaedoreas -  better than Viagra?"), I recently decided to chip in and do my bit to provide a counterbalance to what some of us see as an inordinate amount of Dypsis-related posting of late.

Chamaedorea tuerckheimii is a rare, spottily distributed dwarf palm that is known from southern Veracruz and Chiapas, México, central and eastern Guatemala, and western Honduras. There are two common color forms that appear to be associated with specific elevational ranges. The most-coveted is the so-called "blue" form from very wet cloud forest in north-central Guatemala at elevations between 1500-1700 m, and the marbled green forms best known from lower elevations in Veracruz, but also now reported from extreme eastern Guatemala and the Honduran border area. Individuals of both forms may show pale margins of varying width and intensity.

It is somewhat tricky in cultivation, and requires a very well-drained mineral substrate rich in magnesium. I use a 2:1 blend of 3 mm pumice and well-composted oak leaf litter, combined with a dash of powdered dolomotic limestone. They will take quite a bit of full morning sunshine, but must be shaded at noon.  

Wild populations appear to be dominated by females (?), and while the pollinator has not yet been identified, based on their prevalence in these areas and flower structure I strongly suspect a midge (Ceratopogonidae). Hand pollinating this sp. is a painstaking task and, in my experience, requires lots of mature plants, judicious scalpel work on the flowers of both sexes, and a very good eye coupled with illuminated magnification. In spite of my garden abutting native cloud forest at ca. 1580 m, I have never seen spontaneous fruit set in the C. tuerckheimii my collection. Fruit takes about 10 months to ripen. Fresh seed will germinate anywhere from <3 months to >24 months. Seedlings should have three leaves at the end of their first year.

Many plants in cultivation both here and abroad appear to be stressed by one or more factors. They can be prone to infestations by two-spotted spider mites if grown indoors, or under warm, dry conditions. I have found that once brought under control with several applications of abamectin + a contact miticide, they rarely return. They are very sensitive to salt buildup in their growing media, as well as wet feet. Anything that makes their roots unhappy is rapidly manifested in their leaves. The most obvious clue that something is not to their liking is the broad necrotic edge to the leaf that is so common in plants in cultivation. Well grown plants should hold better than 14 leaves and often as many as >20. The tallest example that I have seen was just about one meter in height.

They are superb in mass-plantings, but still difficult to obtain, even in the range countries. We are hoping to remedy this in very short order :>)

Jay

[XYZ]

And an image of a group in my garden, together with an exceptionally fine Sobralia macrantha alba.

[Kim]

Astonishing, I'm speechless.

Well, may I go on?  I seem to recall photos of these in habitat and something about these not being in cultivation much outside your collection?  Congratulations on your success in growing them.  That's a striking pleated leaf.  Very striking.

(I have that very same Sobralia macrantha alba, but it's not blooming for me yet.)

Post all you want about these obscure chamaedoreas, you have a voracious audience here.

[Matt in SD]

I've seen some C tuerkheimii before, but never grown as well as yours.  Those are really amazing.  Maybe someday when I install a reverse osmosis water system with capacity to run my sprinkler and drip lines, I'll give one a try.  As you mentioned, I've also heard they just don't deal with hard water.

Matt

[XYZ]

Kim:

Glad to read that you're growing Sobralias now. A nice visual foil for small American palms.

I think you remember some posts over yonder depicting C. tenerrima. They are far more rare in cultivation than blue C. tuerckheimii, which are available from commercial sources from time to time.

I've attached a photo of some C. tenerrima youngsters that I'm growing out. Photo was taken in May, and they've added quite a bit of growth since then.

'tardes,

SJ

[palmtreesforpleasure]

thank you for the growing information

regards

colin

[Zac in NC]

Yes, thanks for sharing pics of some very rare and infrequently posted about palms. They are beautiful little plants. I am so jealous.

Zac

[Jeff Searle]

Hello Jay,

   Superb !   Thanks for posting your pictures. I haven't seen these plants in years. I used to have some probably 10-12 years ago, but they never grew well and looked real good. They were just alive and grew very slow. In South Florida, it's a little too hot and humid for them.

  Of course, I have improved as a grower and through trial and errors, have learned a lot more over time.

  I am a Chamaedorea lover and grow many of the more common species here.

   Thanks again, for all the info. and maybe someday, small amounts of cultivated seed can become available.

[elHoagie]

Great pictures!  Thanks for posting...

[Gonzer]

Jay, your tenerrimas look quite good, great in fact since I've never seen a seedling! Damn those frustrating export laws.

Very rare to see 'tucks' without some margin discoloration, yours are sublime.

[Gileno Machado]

Marvelous little palms ! Please show us more details.

Why don't they sell these lovely potato chips at supermarkets?

[palmazon]

exceptionally fine, indeed

I saw a live specimen in the garden of Karel (?) Havlicek, Big Island, HI last December; he lets it accumulate leaf litter, insisting it must be so in habitat - yes  or no? On a scale of 1-10 (yours being a 10), his looked more like an 8 - still beautiful, but not full potential

[palmazon]

(palmazon @ Aug. 08 2006,21:27)

QUOTE

exceptionally fine, indeed

I saw a live specimen in the garden of Karel (?) Havlicek, Big Island, HI last December; he lets it accumulate leaf litter, insisting it must be so in habitat - yes  or no? On a scale of 1-10 (yours being a 10), his looked more like an 8 - still beautiful, but not full potential

come to think of it, I'd like to correct that last remark - Karel's look pretty stellar, both forms, and the mottled form in fruit

[palmazon]

excellent specimens - I take it all back

my apologies if I offended you, Karel

and for those who missed it last round

[Zac in NC]

Wow Danny Those are some nice lookign plants. I know you enjoyed the trip to Hawaii.

Zac

[palmazon]

hit the hay, you maniac

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Jeez, Palmazon.

Those are almost incredibly byootiful!

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Jay--

This is one of the best "threads" ever started on this site.

Thanks much for the wonderful info.

--bob

[jam99]

Danny, are there many Czech palm lovers living in Hawai'i?

I ditto RLR - this is one of the best threads. Very valuable info, like a page from a book, but for free. Jay, we want more. You could do like one species per week. I bet Dr. Kami Cox would agree :-)

Thanks

Cheers, Jan

[Kamipalms]

'Bout time there was a REAL thread ( Hehe) to comment on, what a rippa!

For me, this is the best there is. The 2 most desired Chammies , C. tuerkheimii and C.tenerrima. Although both are very limited in cultivation but they are out there. I do know of a few of both in small patches around the globe from South Africa to the States and even a very small few here in OZ but I truly think that the reason for their limited sucess in growing conditions. I've studdied habit conditions (weather) and there seems to be a very small growing window that these little beauties will thrive in and this may just be the reason they are so difficult to sucessfully set good seed.

SJ,  as allways your habit info is outstanding and very helpful for my sucess with this Genus and the photos , especially with something for scale take the cake.

regards,

           Dr Kami

PS: Can I have some seeds

[Kris]

Thanks Jay  

lovely palms and it was a visual delight to us.

this is my first encounter with this type of palm species.

never seen before in S.India.

love,

Kris.

[XYZ]

Robert:

Thanks very much for the compliment. Given the source, I'm quite flattered.

Thanks also to everyone else who has chimed in on this thread.

Danny:

I've had this debate with Jason before about these pix, without arriving at any firm conclusion. While the second (male) Mexican C. tuerckheimii is a textbook example, the flowering plant is quite similar in many ways to C. piscifolia. I will admit that the apical incision is somewhat shorter than one would expect, but the "tails" are quite distinctive, and drawn out far more than in any green tuerck I've ever seen. The appearance of the infructs. are also quite different than those that I've generated here. Given the rarified company (Coclé blue sullis, tenerrimas, pumilas, Guat blue tuercks, etc.) it shares is it possible that your guy is sitting on a wild-collected C. piscifolia the fact of which he's not too keen on advertising?

Yes, he is quite correct that they are very efficient litter traps and wild plants often root adventitiously into the litter accumulated in their canopies. With all this debris filling the spaces between the leaves, they look vaguely like shaggy little washies in miniature.

Jan: I'll see what I can do with regard to your request :>)

Sorry, Jason. No seed, but some of these may become available soon.

YOUNG TUERCKS! (sorry, couldn't resist...)

[Zac in NC]

God! I could just eat those little seedlings up. They are so cute.

Zac

[palmtreesforpleasure]

What a great  thread, was lucky enough to get 2 tuecks a while ago. unfortunately 2 males but very healthy, soon hopefully will have some females. excellent phot's

regards

colin

[jam99]

Jay, thanks! Even one description per month would do. This is really superb stuff many of us are interested in. You know C. tuerckheimii, C. epetiolata, etc. are on my wish list.

Colin, good luck. Those handsome males on PACSOA deserve a hot female or two.

Cheers, Jan

[PalmsZA]

Hi SJ

YOUNG TUERCKS! (sorry, couldn't resist...)

Attached Image

Thats just not cricket!!!

Xcellent topic.....thanks

Cheers

Dennis

[Kamipalms]

(stone jaguar @ Aug. 09 2006,23:34)

QUOTE

Sorry, Jason. No seed, but some of these may become available soon.

YOUNG TUERCKS! (sorry, couldn't resist...)

No Seeds ! and you post a pic of seedlings ... its just not fair...

Well, theres only one resolution for this....

Any one want to buy a nice 4X2 house and vacant lot in Perth?...I'm moving to bloody Guatemala!

Dennis,

I'm sure a good friend of yours could spare some of these?

Jason.

[PalmsZA]

Hi J

I would have to pry them loose from his death grip with a crowbar!!! He may trade for some xtra rare Neoregelias! ( I hope :-) )

Cheers

D

[RainForestt Robert]

Wow! A few years ago I tried, kind of desperately, to source some seeds/seedlings of this palm.  It was to no avail.  Thanks for the photos though.  Maybe the post trip of the 2008 Costa Rica biennial could take us to the habitat of this palm.  Nah, probably result in a "wild collecting melee!"

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hi Jan,

When a female tuek see's that photo she will not be able to help herself. she will have to join them. now all i have to do is organise the immigration papers ;-)

ahhh a reply already. waiting for the introduction. looking good

regrads

colin

[palmazon]

Jay,

Though I wouldn't put anything past a rabid collector, Karel appears to be a straight-up, legitimate guy; he didn't freak out when I asked to photograph those particular plants for possible publication in an article or this forum.

Excellent subject and photos - muchisimas gracias.

[palmazon]

(jam99 @ Aug. 09 2006,03:06)

QUOTE

Danny, are there many Czech palm lovers living in Hawai'i?

Jan,

you should go - you'd love it there

do you know how to play the ukulele?

[DoomsDave]

I don't have any C. tueks, and that's because people here complain that they don't grow well.

That said, it looks like a similar habitat to that inhabited by C. metallica, though metallicas are, from what I understand, a great deal tougher.

Of course, Guatamala City is habitat, more or less . . .

dave

[Morabeza]

WOW Jay!!  The tuerckheimii photo with the Sobralia is perhaps one the most beautiful scenes I have laid my eyes on.  You grow them both to such perfection.

I was very sad to part with my tuercks when I moved from California to Hawai`i.  Unfortunately the Hawai`i State Dept. of Agriculture does not allow any palm plant imports from the mainland.  I sold them to a horticulture professor in Puerto Rico.  Hope they are doing well.  I babied them with Reverse Osmosis water  .. I should check up on them!

I also very much appreciated the insights on natural pollinators, and just how challenging and time consuming producing seeds on this species can be.  I am thrilled to see that you are actively engaged in propagating them!

[XYZ]

Didn't expect to see this post again...

Sorry to hear that you had to part with your plants. We hope to have artificially-propagated material available in some markets quite soon. Like many (all?) dwarf Chams they are INFINITELY better/easier to grow than wild-collected plants.

As mentioned in the post, I firmly believe that the natural pollinators are probably a/several very small dipteran/s. I have not seen any native pollination in my collection of founders in town, even though certain spp. of Chamaedorea have set seed here without manipulation (most notably from a curiosity standpoint, C. elegans from the northern lowlands).

Thanks for the interest,

SJ

[palmazon]

Sobralia micrantha alba - is that the Monja Blanca?

[edbrown_3]

Heres a few photos . I am growing them in Jax.  It is a bit cooler than south Florida and they are a challenge but I have had these  almost 10  years.

Best regards,

Ed

[edbrown_3]

Here is the another photo

[caleno]

Hello,

Most of the Tuerk's I've seen under cultivation don't look as great as Jay's do, the cultivation information should be helpful in case I ever have a chance to grow one.

I thought I would post a picture of a similar Sobralia that grows wild by our farm near Cali, Colombia. It is called Sobralia virginalis, and like most Sobralias, the flower lasts only for a day.

regards,

Michael Calonje

[XYZ]

Michael:

There are quite a few "white" Sobralia spp., some of which are quite extraordinary-looking. The one pictured is, of course, a rare white form of a normally purple sp. I grow a few from your neck of the woods, incl. the magnificent S. gloriosa, which grows to five m+ tall in habitat. While you are correct that the flowers of many last for a day or less, there is a natural group of sibling spp. from Panamá (the undocarinata complex) that are showy multiflorals and whose flowers may last for as much as two weeks. I've attached a pic of S. maduroi, which is one of this group. Palmazon, the monja blanca is an alba form of a Lycaste skinneri and is our national flower.

Ahem - and back to palms. I think that most tuercks that I've seen in cultivation look stressed and unhappy due to their origin, rather than growing conditions. Wild-collected plants from this group are maladaptive and painfully slow growing, plain & simple. Seed grown plants are reasonably fast growing and relatively easy in culture, which is quite the contrast with their wild siblings. Obviously, growers should prefer the latter material anyway, given conservation concerns.

How's the steno doing?

Saludos,

Jay