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Best Cold Hardy Livistona


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Posted

What is the best Livistona, hybrid or not to zone push in 8a?

  • Like 1
Posted

@ZPalms chinensis is going to be your best bet, they're pretty damn tough. People in Texas will attest to that

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Posted

Chinensis, Boninensis, and maybe Nítida. I am trialling and I have high hope for the Nítida. 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@ZPalms chinensis is going to be your best bet, they're pretty damn tough. People in Texas will attest to that

 

13 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

Chinensis, Boninensis, and maybe Nítida. I am trialling and I have high hope for the Nítida. 

Is their anything I need to know about the lows they can handle and can they gain height here or are they planted more as a perennial?

The only information I’ve seen is that they seem to not be suitable for 8a or they struggle or burn or in constant recovery mode unless other people have experience with these palms in my region or common climate but I get a lot of conflicting results

as of now though I’m thinking Chinensis seems to be a good choice if they survived palm apocalypse in Texas

Edited by ZPalms
Posted

Chinensis will leaf burn at pretty high temps (20s), so they essentially die back and spend all summer to recover only to get fried again if you're in too cold a spot.  Lots of people with these in zone 7 but they never really look good.

Based on advice from many people here, anecdotally it seems nitida may be the best.  Mine is in its second winter outside and looks good.

 

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

 

Is their anything I need to know about the lows they can handle and can they gain height here or are they planted more as a perennial?

The only information I’ve seen is that they seem to not be suitable for 8a or they struggle or burn or in constant recovery mode unless other people have experience with these palms in my region or common climate but I get a lot of conflicting results

as of now though I’m thinking Chinensis seems to be a good choice if they survived palm apocalypse in Texas

Hard to compare as 8a in NC is different than 8a in Texas but I'll share what I've experienced.  Livistona chinensis is definitely cold hardier than nitida.  Chinensis will suffer leaf damage in low 20's but it's much more bud hardy than that.  My 5-gal sized chinensis survived unprotected last year through 9° and 13° during the week-long event but my trunking 7' tall nitida didn't survive.  Here it is last April after trunk-cutting:

rsz_lchinensis.jpg.92aa392a952bb5f42ac26163d871d980.jpg

And here it is today - one year after the freeze.  Lowest temp this year was 23°.

 

IMG_20220217_171812_hdr.jpg

Edited by Fusca
  • Like 6
  • Upvote 1

Jon Sunder

Posted
26 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

 

Is their anything I need to know about the lows they can handle and can they gain height here or are they planted more as a perennial?

The only information I’ve seen is that they seem to not be suitable for 8a or they struggle or burn or in constant recovery mode unless other people have experience with these palms in my region or common climate but I get a lot of conflicting results

as of now though I’m thinking Chinensis seems to be a good choice if they survived palm apocalypse in Texas

I can't remember who it is but someone in Maryland was growing them as perennials. When large, the bud can handle temps in the single digits if the duration is short. They're kinda tough to find here if they're big but if you can find a larger one up your way that'd be the way to go. I'll get some recent pics of mine on here tomor, 19F and freezing rain

  • Like 1
Posted

Livistona chinensis really only looks good in warmer zone 9a and up. It will burn almost every winter in your area and look half dead.

There is no Livistona worth growing in 8a unless you protect or settle with chinensis that spends all summer recovering 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Posted

I have one and mine completely defoliated, meanwhile a few in town are still green with just burnt tips. The first pic has been in ground for over 10 years. The 2nd idk I just stumbled upon it in a neighborhood. 
 

zone 8b 

88F858BE-5C4D-4B76-B3E8-DEB8B707ECD2.jpeg

77ED5809-AB45-4213-A650-9EFE8317FEF8.jpeg

  • Like 4
Posted

Here is mine after our recent event, I'd say 80 to 90% burn

20220217_193841.jpg

20220217_193702.jpg

20220217_194248.jpg

  • Like 4
Posted

So the general consensus is chinensis as the hardiest and the most likely to come back if damaged, I would protect it most likely and I don’t mind a bit of damage as long as I can protect it from a complete die back

  • Like 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I have one and mine completely defoliated, meanwhile a few in town are still green with just burnt tips. The first pic has been in ground for over 10 years. The 2nd idk I just stumbled upon it in a neighborhood. 
 

zone 8b 

88F858BE-5C4D-4B76-B3E8-DEB8B707ECD2.jpeg

77ED5809-AB45-4213-A650-9EFE8317FEF8.jpeg

 

5 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Here is mine after our recent event, I'd say 80 to 90% burn

20220217_193841.jpg

20220217_193702.jpg

20220217_194248.jpg

They look awesome even with the burn and I don’t really mind it but it’s so weird how I’m not that far from 8b but it can create a huge difference

Posted

I have grown allot of the Livistona on this list.  Many of which I have grown from seed.  Though I love them all and want to add more to my collection decora "decipiens" has been my best.  Chinensis is a slow grower and prefers canopy here.  Nitida though a good grower has not outperformed decora for me under the same conditions.  At my location decora has grown faster and outperformed everything but hybrid mule palms.  It has shown more cold tolerance than pure robusta.  All Aussie species have performed well though including nitida, drudei, mariae, australis, and rigida.  I did try fulva and would like to again but cannot locate a source for them.  Benthamii is less cold tolerant than the others I have tried and saribus "green petiole" variety is also fairly cold tolerant.  Allot of growers have a great deal of success with Nitida and they are ultimately taller than decora but to about 30ft decora has been the fastest grower.  They tend to slow down after about 30 ft.

  • Like 4
Posted

Decipiens/decora will kick the bucket somewhere in the mid teens. There must have been around 100 of them lining I-45 in Houston (planted around 20 years ago and looking perfect before the 2021 freeze) and 99% of them perished in the extended freeze with a 14-15F low. Defintiely wouldn't rate it 8a bud hardy. 

Majority of chinensis in the same area survived along with about half of the Washingtonia robusta. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Posted

After last winter I don't even know if Livistona are worth growing in Zone 9A. The carnage at Mercer was eye opening. Huge trees, almost all dead.

  • Like 1
Posted
14 minutes ago, necturus said:

After last winter I don't even know if Livistona are worth growing in Zone 9A. The carnage at Mercer was eye opening. Huge trees, almost all dead.

What was the low? 

Posted (edited)

Just for kicks here are a clumping of Livestonia in 9a Santa Rosa Beach Florida on Christmas Eve

CAC13BFE-FC23-4138-A05D-D31163683D45.jpeg

FD08D0BB-CD3F-4B12-8509-CAAB51D1907C.jpeg

Edited by Jtee
  • Like 4
Posted

I think the more trunk it grows the harder it will be to keep alive. Matt-N-Dallas had two Nitida in San Marcos, one with probably 6-7 feet of trunk? The other just barely forming a trunk(if I remember correctly). He wrapped both, his area saw 6-7°F two nights in a row, along with temperatures below freezing for 5 days. The one barely forming a trunk survived.

  • Like 1
Posted

Nitida here in 8a NC.

I am fully expecting this do die one if these winters once it sees temps in the mid teens.  It was mostly just an experiment.  No damage in previous 3 years with lows 18-19.  It has shown a tiny bit of damage when temps were in the 20s but there was a heavy icy frost.  This year it suffered moderate damage from the .25-.5 inches of ice on it, with a low of 19.  It does not like ice.

It grows really fast, and I kind of regret planting as close to the house as I have.   Assuming there is no serious damage to the bud, this palm will have put out enough new leaves to look presentable by June.

I debated breaking out the saw yesterday....For now, it lives.

20220206_164335.thumb.jpg.cc9516f58e3ca2344adb90e45beb2598.jpg

post 2022 ice storm nitida, 8a NC 

 

  • Like 5
Posted

I just purchased a chinensis and you know I'm in 7b. My plan is to plant it right on my foundation, under the eaves of the house. I expect it'll die back to the ground every winter and regrow like a perennial does. If it dies, that's ok to. It was only $30 from Lowes. But I've watched YouTube videos of people growing them for years as dieback perennials in places like the midwest. So I'll just have to see how it does. 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Posted
15 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I’m not that far from 8b but it can create a huge difference

It definitely does. I used to commute from myrtle beach inland to Dillon, SC and it was pretty normal to see a 7F-8F temperature swing once I got away from the coast. MB isn't very far from the 8a line but the ocean keeps us in that pocket

Screenshot_20220218-114921_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20220218-114842_Chrome.jpg

  • Like 3
Posted

I was only going to add, they might not be the most hardy of the genus, but they are readily available and relatively inexpensive.  I overwinter mine in a garage, no burning in recent years, but before I was really monitoring temps in there, they would burn in the upper 20's. Now, I just have to keep up with watering as they go from looking fine to cr'p if you miss a watering.  a watering.

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

It definitely does. I used to commute from myrtle beach inland to Dillon, SC and it was pretty normal to see a 7F-8F temperature swing once I got away from the coast. MB isn't very far from the 8a line but the ocean keeps us in that pocket

Screenshot_20220218-114921_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20220218-114842_Chrome.jpg

Is this from the 2012 USDA map? I wonder when they plan on doing an update and if these zones will shift when they do. 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

I wonder if anyone that has had Livistona die back year after year for lets say 3 years has had them increase in size or decline?  Most palms it is my understanding to grow back they use stored energy in the trunks/roots and dying back multiple years will kill them or make them go into decline (Grow smaller each year).   I assume you can always replant.  I just plant out majesties from time to time to fill in some holes and let them freeze.  As far as zones if you're bored you can get a spreadsheet and go to weather underground and select 'view by month' and average the lowest temp by year for the last 30 years yourself by looking at Dec/Jan/Feb each year.

Edited by Allen
  • Like 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(8 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(3), etonia (1) louisiana(4), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  tamaulipas (1), (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7+), wagnerianus(1+),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  Blue Butia odorata (1), Serenoa repens (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, knikfar said:

Is this from the 2012 USDA map? I wonder when they plan on doing an update and if these zones will shift when they do. 

I'm not sure but I think the 2012 data is the latest available. That map came from plantmaps.com

Screenshot_20220218-133744_Chrome.jpg

Edited by DAVEinMB
  • Like 2
Posted
52 minutes ago, Allen said:

I wonder if anyone that has had Livistona die back year after year for lets say 3 years has had them increase in size or decline?  Most palms it is my understanding to grow back they use stored energy in the trunks/roots and dying back multiple years will kill them or make them go into decline (Grow smaller each year).   I assume you can always replant.  I just plant out majesties from time to time to fill in some holes and let them freeze.  As far as zones if you're bored you can get a spreadsheet and go to weather underground and select 'view by month' and average the lowest temp by year for the last 30 years yourself by looking at Dec/Jan/Feb each year.

All the photos I've seen of people doing this and the palm looks the same year after year.  Never gets any bigger and only puts out a few fronds per season with the first 1 or 2 not being full ones.  Really not the worth the effort to have a plant start looking good in late August only to be zapped a few months later.

  • Like 2
Posted
1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

I'm not sure but I think the 2012 data is the latest available. That map came from plantmaps.com

Screenshot_20220218-133744_Chrome.jpg

I read a NYT article about the changes to the hardiness zones due to climate change. It said sometime between now and 2040, you'll be in 9a. I'll just go from being on the 7b side of the line with 8a to being a solid 8a. 

  • Like 1
Posted
23 minutes ago, Chester B said:

All the photos I've seen of people doing this and the palm looks the same year after year.  Never gets any bigger and only puts out a few fronds per season with the first 1 or 2 not being full ones.  Really not the worth the effort to have a plant start looking good in late August only to be zapped a few months later.

Kinda depends on where you are. The warmer climate outside of zone 9, the faster it'll come back and the longer it'll hang around until it gets zapped. I've also read that its a very low maintenance plant. So if I can plant it and forget it, its totally worth having pretty fronds from June until January. Honestly, my cannas aren't that different. They're late sprouters. I think they come up in May but don't start blooming until June. By the end of the summer, they look terrible from the heat. But I keep them for those two months when they look amazing and tropical. 

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

I pulled my only Chinesis from the ground because the die back then struggle isn’t worth it. They don’t grow fast enough to make it worthwhile if you get into the low 20’s frequently.

The leafs are paper thin so that contributes to the ugly burn. Thinner than Robusta.

Edited by atlamtapalms
  • Like 2
Posted
12 minutes ago, knikfar said:

I read a NYT article about the changes to the hardiness zones due to climate change. It said sometime between now and 2040, you'll be in 9a. I'll just go from being on the 7b side of the line with 8a to being a solid 8a. 

I've seen the same article, it looks like that anticipated 9a line hugs the immediate coast through my area

  • Like 1
Posted

Don't think I would try Livistona in z8. It doesn't recover fast enough. I never saw one on the fall line (Columbus-Macon-Augusta-Columbia).

Even Augusta has robustas in-ground. Mexican Fans can grow 2 dozen leaves a year.

  • Like 1
Posted

I think the LC should be alright in z8b if you think it as a perennial and probably plant it young (and not as a focal point). This way, it will generally stay low which also allows you to prune away some of the burnt leaves. Given global warming, they may hopefully become more of a staple in these borderline zones!

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

I really need to get some pics of the 6 L. Chinensis that have been growing for the past 10+ years a little south of Myrtle. They're planted at an apartment complex and get no protection and they're fairly tall. Based on the ones I've seen here as well as the ones in Charleston that all pulled through our 2018 winter I would not consider these a perennial in 8b or a stretch in 9a. And I get it, not every equivalent zone is created equal, ie a PNW z8b vs my z8b however they are much tougher than this thread is giving them credit for lol. Single digits every winter, that's a different story. But a moderate to warm 8a i think is worth a shot. @ZPalms find one cheap, baby it till it has some mass and/or is established, then let it ride. I think you'll be surprised. 

Edited by DAVEinMB
  • Like 1
Posted
15 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

I really need to get some pics of the 6 L. Chinensis that have been growing for the past 10+ years a little south of Myrtle. They're planted at an apartment complex and get no protection and they're fairly tall. Based on the ones I've seen here as well as the ones in Charleston that all pulled through our 2018 winter I would not consider these a perennial in 8b or a stretch in 9a. And I get it, not every equivalent zone is created equal, ie a PNW z8b vs my z8b however they are much tougher than this thread is giving them credit for lol. Single digits every winter, that's a different story. But a moderate to warm 8a i think is worth a shot. @ZPalms find one cheap, baby it till it has some mass and/or is established, then let it ride. I think you'll be surprised. 

I agree, I think they are tougher than people give them credit for. I just looked on Google maps at the first pic of the livestonia I posted and it’s been there as far back as 2009 according to Google maps, I’m sure even longer than that here in zone 8b. 
 

I do think 8a is pushing it and I’m not sure if they get hardier the older they get.

  • Like 1
Posted
On 2/17/2022 at 6:43 PM, DAVEinMB said:

Here is mine after our recent event, I'd say 80 to 90% burn

 

On 2/17/2022 at 6:41 PM, Jtee said:

I have one and mine completely defoliated, 

C'mon guys so do they look nice in zone 8 or not? This winter hasn't been "that cold" at all. 

Nobody is denying their bud hardiness, but losing most of the leaves even in an average winter let alone a cold one is not a nice look imo. 

  • Like 2

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Posted
12 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 

C'mon guys so do they look nice in zone 8 or not? This winter hasn't been "that cold" at all. 

Nobody is denying their bud hardiness, but losing most of the leaves even in an average winter let alone a cold one is not a nice look imo. 

This was the first year in the ground for mine, it looked fantastic the first month I planted it,  but quickly started to look crappy and really remained that way all summer. I think it had too much sun and not enough water. 
im judging off of the ones around town, I’ve lived here three years now and I haven’t seen them defoliate yet. As you can tell from the pics I posted, they look good considering it’s the last month of winter. And in the summer the lower fronds have those burnt tips usually but it’s looks about 85%good, not dead and regrowing like an annual that’s just popping up again. 

  • Like 1
Posted
26 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 

C'mon guys so do they look nice in zone 8 or not? This winter hasn't been "that cold" at all. 

Nobody is denying their bud hardiness, but losing most of the leaves even in an average winter let alone a cold one is not a nice look imo. 

This was the first year in the ground for mine, it looked fantastic the first month I planted it,  but quickly started to look crappy and really remained that way all summer. I think it had too much sun and not enough water. 
im judging off of the ones around town, I’ve lived here three years now and I haven’t seen them defoliate yet. As you can tell from the pics I posted, they look good considering it’s the last month of winter. And in the summer the lower fronds have those burnt tips usually but it’s looks about 85%good, not dead and regrowing like an annual that’s just popping up again. 
I don’t know what’s up with my palms, my filifera has more burn than my neighbors queens or my mule. I don’t get it. 

 

here’s another one in town. This was taken in October. It looks pretty good to me. 

BBB9EF54-BBE7-41EC-AE05-F93E5257BA25.png

  • Like 1
Posted
5 minutes ago, Jtee said:


im judging off of the ones around town, I’ve lived here three years now and I haven’t seen them defoliate yet. As you can tell from the pics I posted, they look good considering it’s the last month of winter. 

It has been extremely warm in your area for the last 4 winters, several degrees above average each year (I'm super jealous and would like a turn too haha). 

  • Like 1

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Jtee said:

This was the first year in the ground for mine, it looked fantastic the first month I planted it,  but quickly started to look crappy and really remained that way all summer. I think it had too much sun and not enough water. 
im judging off of the ones around town, I’ve lived here three years now and I haven’t seen them defoliate yet. As you can tell from the pics I posted, they look good considering it’s the last month of winter. And in the summer the lower fronds have those burnt tips usually but it’s looks about 85%good, not dead and regrowing like an annual that’s just popping up again. 

You make a good point here.  FWIW the only chinensis I ever lost in 8b or 9a was due to western sun exposure and not cold.  It was 1 1/2 years in the ground from a 15-gal trunking palm.  My existing palm is on the east side of my house this time and much happier.

Edited by Fusca
  • Like 1

Jon Sunder

Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 

C'mon guys so do they look nice in zone 8 or not? This winter hasn't been "that cold" at all. 

Nobody is denying their bud hardiness, but losing most of the leaves even in an average winter let alone a cold one is not a nice look imo. 

Mine looks like garbage right now haha. But I think the initial question was regarding which one would be best to try as a zone push

Edited by DAVEinMB
  • Like 1

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