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phoenix roebelenii separate or not?


ZPalms

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I picked this struggling nearly dead phoenix roebelenii from the clearance at Lowes to rehab, I was just wondering it I should separate it now or recover it to better health then try and separate it? Theirs 3 in the pot

 

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Bruh 

 

I'd let it recover first. I tried to do the same thing last year and ended up yeeting everything into the dumpster. Also, that recovery is gonna be slooooooooow. 

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6 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Bruh 

 

I'd let it recover first. I tried to do the same thing last year and ended up yeeting everything into the dumpster. Also, that recovery is gonna be slooooooooow. 

Sounds easy to me, I was dreading having to take it apart but while it recovers I can think about how much I'll be dreading to taking it apart months from now LOL thanks!!

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31 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

in all honesty, I'd hang on to the receipt for that one though. 

I'm hoping it pulls through but definitely gonna hold it just in case :greenthumb:

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I don't think I would ever buy anything that looked like that, no matter the discount!  It might be cold-related, drought-related, both, or something else.  Having said that, it will probably recuperate if you are patient enough.  But I would not expect to get a refund from a final clearance sale, at least around here, it is not done. 

Leave it in the same pot.

Edited by oasis371
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Leave them together for now and cut off all the fronds down till you've got nubs. Squirt some hydrogen peroxide in the top of the nubs. Keep the soil well watered (don't wet the top of the nub) and warm and see if you get some growth. The little one will probably die. If the other two live, leave them in the same pot (with soil added) in a bright place inside then put them outside in the spring when it's warm enough with no direct sunlight. Leave them in the same pot without separating and then let them go another winter indoor in the same pot. In the spring of 2023 when it gets warm enough to keep them outside cut them apart with a saw so the soil stays mostly attached and put them in different pots.

20190122_161832_zpsqenwdftk.jpg?width=19

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27 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

Leave them together for now and cut off all the fronds down till you've got nubs. Squirt some hydrogen peroxide in the top of the nubs. Keep the soil well watered (don't wet the top of the nub) and warm and see if you get some growth. The little one will probably die. If the other two live, leave them in the same pot (with soil added) in a bright place inside then put them outside in the spring when it's warm enough with no direct sunlight. Leave them in the same pot without separating and then let them go another winter indoor in the same pot. In the spring of 2023 when it gets warm enough to keep them outside cut them apart with a saw so the soil stays mostly attached and put them in different pots.

20190122_161832_zpsqenwdftk.jpg?width=19

Thanks for the tips! Does the hydrogen peroxide promote growth? also cutting the fronds down to a nub does that include even the dry incomplete spears?

Edited by ZPalms
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1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

Does the hydrogen peroxide promote growth? also cutting the fronds down to a nub does that include even the dry incomplete spears?

The Hydrogen peroxide will stop any fungus growth which they're vulnerable to.  Yes, cut off the dry spears and all the fronds, then post a pic so we can see if you cut it enough.

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22 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

The Hydrogen peroxide will stop any fungus growth which they're vulnerable to.  Yes, cut off the dry spears and all the fronds, then post a pic so we can see if you cut it enough.

Maybe a little more off the top or is this good? B)

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I'm assuming I'm good to pour the hydrogen now? I can't really cut more off the top without cutting into the trunk fibers unless I need too?

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All set and ready to go, Sitting around with my other palms under grow lights since I don't have anywhere bright to put it for now but once the warmth of spring is stable it will be heading out to enjoy hopefully it's 2nd chance at life! :wub:

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3 hours ago, ZPalms said:

All set and ready to go, Sitting around with my other palms under grow lights since I don't have anywhere bright to put it for now but once the warmth of spring is stable it will be heading out to enjoy hopefully it's 2nd chance at life! :wub:

Performing a recovery of my own, except there was spear pulls involved. One of them hasnt showed signs of growth in quite a while. I thought it was growing slowly, but its not. I cut down a little ways, so now ill for sure know if any growth is occuring. If not, then i have another pot available.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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26 minutes ago, JLM said:

Performing a recovery of my own, except there was spear pulls involved. One of them hasnt showed signs of growth in quite a while. I thought it was growing slowly, but its not. I cut down a little ways, so now ill for sure know if any growth is occuring. If not, then i have another pot available.

I did tug the spears on these guys and they are all really snug so I'm hopeful they should come through, do you have a picture of yours? I love seeing recovery palms

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23 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I did tug the spears on these guys and they are all really snug so I'm hopeful they should come through, do you have a picture of yours? I love seeing recovery palms

Nowhere near recovery, but i could get some pics. I dont want to hijack your thread lol

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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15 minutes ago, JLM said:

Nowhere near recovery, but i could get some pics. I dont want to hijack your thread lol

I don't mind, This thread wont get anything new for a while unless I see some new growth

I do have to say I don't know if something is wrong because the pot is giving off a funky smell like garbage. I'm pretty sure the soil was completely dried when I watered it so I don't know why it's smelling as if it's mucky mucky, I thought maybe it was lack of air flow since I had it sitting in a bucket for a day to let it drip access water out the bottom and then I removed it and then the smell kind of got better, but smelling the pot up close, it doesn't smell like anything except how dirt smells and nothing nasty so maybe it's just stinky water that dried up in the container or something.

the roots are root bound and I know for sure it needs a new pot and I do think I have one and I just need to get more soil but I think that would help more than keeping it in the original pot

when I looked at the roots they were healthy with no rot so I don't even know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by ZPalms
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12 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I don't mind, This thread wont get anything new for a while unless I see some new growth

I do have to say I don't know if something is wrong because the pot is giving off a funky smell like garbage. I'm pretty sure the soil was completely dried when I watered it so I don't know why it's smelling as if it's mucky mucky, I thought maybe it was lack of air flow since I had it sitting in a bucket for a day to let it drip access water out the bottom and then I removed it and then the smell kind of got better, but smelling the pot up close, it doesn't smell like anything except how dirt smells and nothing nasty so maybe it's just stinky water that dried up in the container or something.

the roots are root bound and I know for sure it needs a new pot and I do think I have one and I just need to get more soil but I think that would help more than keeping it in the original pot

when I looked at the roots they were healthy with no rot so I don't even know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is what happened to mine over the summer. Some are still in recovery mode. So basically they got pot bound and the soil wasnt soaking up any water anymore. This allowed them to completely dry out, sure enough the fronds wilted and some of them spear pulled. I lost a couple of them from that whole thing. If things dont work out after re potting, take it out of your pot and shake all your soil off of it, then stick it back in the original pot lol

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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8 minutes ago, JLM said:

This is what happened to mine over the summer. Some are still in recovery mode. So basically they got pot bound and the soil wasnt soaking up any water anymore. This allowed them to completely dry out, sure enough the fronds wilted and some of them spear pulled. I lost a couple of them from that whole thing. If things dont work out after re potting, take it out of your pot and shake all your soil off of it, then stick it back in the original pot lol

I just hope the smell isn't of it rotting cause that would suck, I hope I watered it through enough but It can't be rotting after just 2 days but it smells like cabbage from far away unless its the majest palm I got but the majesty was just as dry but I'm gonna try and get soil today and repot hopefully

Edited by ZPalms
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23 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I just hope the smell isn't of it rotting cause that would suck, I hope I watered it through enough but It can't be rotting after just 2 days but it smells like cabbage from far away unless its the majest palm I got but the majesty was just as dry but I'm gonna try and get soil today and repot hopefully

Go REAL easy on the watering because there is no where in the plant for the water to 'go to' and it will rot.  Does that make sense?

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2 hours ago, Allen said:

Go REAL easy on the watering because there is no where in the plant for the water to 'go to' and it will rot.  Does that make sense?

I only gave it one good watering cause I thought, ok so the soil is bone dry and I need to penetrate down into the soil and get everything a good soak but I made sure the water drained I may set it outside in the shade since its warm today to help air it

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So I decided to lift the palms out of the pot and take a look at the roots and they are fine but the bottom of the pot was mucky soil so I removed it and sterilized the pot and placed it back in and put the soil back on top that fell off when I pulled it up but then I noticed 2 ants were in the pot so what is that a indicator of? are they just strays?

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46 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

So I decided to lift the palms out of the pot and take a look at the roots and they are fine but the bottom of the pot was mucky soil so I removed it and sterilized the pot and placed it back in and put the soil back on top that fell off when I pulled it up but then I noticed 2 ants were in the pot so what is that a indicator of? are they just strays?

I had a fire ant colony in my foxtail's pot all summer, they were still living up until early January when i finally gave up and put poison in the pot soil since it was expected to get down into the 20's, and even with protection i wouldnt risk leaving it outside. The foxtail doesnt seem to have minded the poison. If you only have a few ants in there it should be fine.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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2 minutes ago, JLM said:

I had a fire ant colony in my foxtail's pot all summer, they were still living up until early January when i finally gave up and put poison in the pot soil since it was expected to get down into the 20's, and even with protection i wouldnt risk leaving it outside. The foxtail doesnt seem to have minded the poison. If you only have a few ants in there it should be fine.

When I lifted it out I didn't see anything crazy happening and not many ants but so far only 2 so I'm guessing they were stragglers and will most likely die off if theirs anymore, I don't know how they get inside of lowes and into the pot but sounds good to me if I don't have to do anything! thanks :greenthumb:

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1 minute ago, ZPalms said:

When I lifted it out I didn't see anything crazy happening and not many ants but so far only 2 so I'm guessing they were stragglers and will most likely die off if theirs anymore, I don't know how they get inside of lowes and into the pot but sounds good to me if I don't have to do anything! thanks :greenthumb:

My in ground foxtail was bought at a walmart in Pensacola in the garden center, had a bunch of ants in every pot. There was no winning with that location. They were probably already in the pot before they got them in. I would say its the same thing with both Lowe's and Home Depot.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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Funny story, I found where the smell came from. So the other night, I was handling the phoenix, getting it all cared for, and as I was walking from my bathroom to my bedroom, I slipped on a puddle and fell, busting my ass, and dropped the watering can, and water spilled all over my carpet. :floor::indifferent: I thought I had handled all the water and dried it out using a fan and some towels, but I guess later the floor started to smell, but I didn't realize it until the power flickered earlier and I had to turn the power bar back on for the wifi, and since I had to bend down to turn it on, I got a quick smell of the carpet, but before that happened, I just blamed the roebelenii pot because that's what I naturally thought it could be since it was wet, but it turned out to be my dry carpet, which I have taken care of the smell, so finally that is all done and over because it was sickly smelling. :floor:

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6 hours ago, JLM said:

My in ground foxtail was bought at a walmart in Pensacola in the garden center, had a bunch of ants in every pot. There was no winning with that location. They were probably already in the pot before they got them in. I would say its the same thing with both Lowe's and Home Depot.

Unrelated but Pensacola is my hometown. I used to work overnight at the Wal-Mart off Creighton Road in the Garden Center. (Circa like 2003) -we had a customer come in at like 3am and buy tons of plants and one of those little sheds, and I was trying to figure out how they were going to get it all home in one trip. The husband tells me he's got a big truck so it's no problem. 

 

Dude shows up in an Explorer Sport Trac. 

 

I was in my 20s, working a night job at this Wal-Mart and a morning job in the now non-existent University Mall so I don't remember much more, but I do remember we used lots of twine and I didn't get my usual 2 hours of sleep that night. 

 

My manager was from Boston so I paged him to the Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhden Centah 

 

Anyway carry on. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Unrelated but Pensacola is my hometown. I used to work overnight at the Wal-Mart off Creighton Road in the Garden Center. (Circa like 2003) -we had a customer come in at like 3am and buy tons of plants and one of those little sheds, and I was trying to figure out how they were going to get it all home in one trip. The husband tells me he's got a big truck so it's no problem. 

 

Dude shows up in an Explorer Sport Trac. 

 

I was in my 20s, working a night job at this Wal-Mart and a morning job in the now non-existent University Mall so I don't remember much more, but I do remember we used lots of twine and I didn't get my usual 2 hours of sleep that night. 

 

My manager was from Boston so I paged him to the Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhden Centah 

 

Anyway carry on. 

Lol

I think i had gotten both foxtails at the Ensley location. I dont know that ive ever been to the Creighton Rd Walmart Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhden Centah. I have been to the location, just never the outside.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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34 minutes ago, JLM said:

Lol

I think i had gotten both foxtails at the Ensley location. I dont know that ive ever been to the Creighton Rd Walmart Gaaaaaaahhhhhhhden Centah. I have been to the location, just never the outside.

Bruh that was such a crappy point of my life. I made it work but it wasn't pleasant. I remember I evacuated for Hurricane Ivan and my roommate - very sweet girl but she had 0% chance of being recruited by NASA - she tells me that everything was fine except for multiple pine trees snapping and going through our trailer like daggers. But other than that everything was ok. 

 

UMMMMMMMM our trailer off 9th Avenue looked like a pin cushion 

 

Yeah she wasn't very smart. 

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I don't wanna start a new thread about this so I'll just ask here but I want opinions on this cause It's a bit confusing to me that palmpedia says that "Phoenix roebelenii is a cold hardy palm that can tolerate cold down to 15F when mature enough. It is great for USDA Zones 8b Propagation" If that's the case then why aren't they more common in landscapes or are they talking about dry 8B? or is it 8B regardless just with winter protection measures? Or is the information just wrong?

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15 hours ago, ZPalms said:

palmpedia says that "Phoenix roebelenii is a cold hardy palm that can tolerate cold down to 15F when mature enough. It is great for USDA Zones 8b Propagation"

That has not been my personal experience.  I live in a zone 8b, and I have found that Phoenix roebelenii does poorly even in the low 20s (especially in a "wet" cold).  Also, most (if not all) of the ones planted at the San Antonio Riverwalk (even mature ones) died off during last winter's freeze.  The Riverwalk is probably the most protected area for palms in San Antonio.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I don't wanna start a new thread about this so I'll just ask here but I want opinions on this cause It's a bit confusing to me that palmpedia says that "Phoenix roebelenii is a cold hardy palm that can tolerate cold down to 15F when mature enough. It is great for USDA Zones 8b Propagation" If that's the case then why aren't they more common in landscapes or are they talking about dry 8B? or is it 8B regardless just with winter protection measures? Or is the information just wrong?

Because they end up looking like yours did lol. 

 

Sorry *shrugs* but yeah that info seems a little off. 

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1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

That has not been my personal experience.  I live in a zone 8b, and I have found that Phoenix roebelenii does poorly even in the low 20s (especially in a "wet" cold).  Also, most (if not all) of the ones planted at the San Antonio Riverwalk (even mature ones) died off during last winter's freeze.  The Riverwalk is probably the most protected area for palms in San Antonio.

 

30 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Because they end up looking like yours did lol. 

 

Sorry *shrugs* but yeah that info seems a little off. 

Haha, I figured it might of been wrong but I marginally started to believe it cause I thought the information on palmpedia would of been accurate and trustworthy information on palms but I knew that would be too good to be true or people would be planting them all over the place if they were that hardy, appreciate it! :greenthumb:

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The vibe I get is hardiness ratings just mean they don't die. It doesn't mean they're gonna be pretty lol. 

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Mine has some damage from one night in the upper 20's. I started protecting it after that, i had originally thought it would be good down to the mid 20's but boy was a wong.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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12 hours ago, ZPalms said:

So what would be the lowest temperature on a normal bases for any roebelenii?

I think it is more likely a zone 9a palm.  I do not believe they would survive zone 8b lows (15F - 20F) without significant protection.  That is probably why we do not see them planted in zone 8b areas.  Attached is a picture I took of some Phoenix roebelenii that were planted at a Taco Cabana on the southeast side of San Antonio (zone 9a).  The picture was taken in January of 2021, and they looked like they were doing pretty good.  They all died the following month during the Texas freeze event of 2021 (as well as every other true palm in the picture).  I believe most consider all of the true palms pictured to be 9a palms (i.e., Phoenix roebelenii, Syagrus romanzoffiana, and Washingtonia robusta); albeit, that part of San Antonio probably experience zone 7b lows for at least a couple of days during said freeze event.  The only true palm planted at that Taco Cabana that survived the Texas freeze event of 2021 was one of three Livistona chinensis that were planted on the east side of the building.image.png.65fc1058fe7585e73b4d1c5d5bd084bf.thumb.png.2802a930c0c7a2f834d5588ea17a6239.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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