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Dypsis lastelliana vs. Dypsis leptocheilos

junglegalfla

By junglegalfla
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

What I believe to be true D. leptocheilos have thinner trunks, more fronds (and the lower ones are more horizontal) and are somewhat faster than D. lastelliana. I checked about 7 or 8 of my lastellianas. Every single one of them had a trunk diameter of about 24-25 cm. Then I checked at least half a dozen leptocheilos, and trunk diameter was concistently 16-17 cm. Interestingly, POM, quotes 18-25 cm diameter for the lastelliana and 25 cm for the leptocheilos!!

Here's a photo straight up in the crown of a leptocheilos. At least 16 fronds are visible.

post-22-1188175327_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

And, for comparison, here's a shot straight up in a lastelliana crown. Only about 11 fronds, and it's fairly obvious that the trunk is much thicker.

post-22-1188175391_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

And, here's where things get interesting. I bought this palm as a D. leptocheilos, and it does have more horizontal fronds (typical of leptocheilos), BUT, trunk diameter is 28 cm!!! And it's just about as fast as a regular leptocheilos. My guess is that it's a hybrid. A very attractive palm.

post-22-1188175519_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Daryl Grand Master

Daryl

Posted
Posted

Here's a couple of mine...

The trunks of the leptocheilos in my garden fall into two categories...thin or thick. These all get the same treatment and grow in  the same soil, with the same sun/shade conditions. Regardless of this they either have a thick or thin trunk.

The thin trunked leptos all had a 'heel' type of growth, although not a big saxaphone type heel. Still, they had a heel and the base of the stem was bent, and they only lost this feature recently.

The thick trunked leptos never had a heel, never even looked like they would get one.

The third palm here is possibly a hybrid, and had a heel, has more upright leaves, thicker leaf scars than leptocheilos, yet the crownshaft colouration and leaf/petiole/rachis colour is more like leptocheilos. The trunk is thicker than either of the leptocheilos described above, but not in the same league as a true lastelliana.

I did seem some leptocheilos up at Cape Tribulation that had massively thick trunks that were thicker than the lastellianas growing a couple of metres away.

small-lepto-trunk.jpg

small-lepto-cs.jpg

big-lepto-trunk.jpg

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

Daryl Grand Master

Daryl

Posted
Posted

big-lepto-cs.jpg

lepto-hyb-trunk.jpg

lepto-hyb-cs.jpg

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

Daryl Grand Master

Daryl

Posted
Posted

One more...at Mt Coot-tha BG

lepto-coot-tha.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

Tyrone Grand Master

Tyrone

Posted
Posted

I do know that lepto has a small seed and lastelliana has a bigger longer seed almost double the size of lepto. That is no good if you just have a plant and nothing more though.

regards

Tyrone

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

junglegalfla Veteran

junglegalfla

Posted
  • Author
Posted

If my two palms are both leptos, they look nothing a like.

On everyone's lepto pics (gorgeous btw!), I don't see the twisted fronds like on mine. I think Christian may be right. I think I may have the teddy-triangle cross. (no complaints!)

Does anyone have a pic of a mature teddy bear-triangle cross? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

gsn Veteran

gsn

Posted
Posted

(bgl @ Aug. 26 2007,20:45)

QUOTE
And, here's where things get interesting. I bought this palm as a D. leptocheilos, and it does have more horizontal fronds (typical of leptocheilos), BUT, trunk diameter is 28 cm!!! And it's just about as fast as a regular leptocheilos. My guess is that it's a hybrid. A very attractive palm.

Bo,

Not to beat a dead horse but back in the  dypsis mystery threads,I mentioned that some of these mystery dypsis might be hybrids? I still think some of these palms we are trying to identify might be hybrids ,either natural crosses in nature or through cultivation! But what do I know? :laugh:

I was kinda blown off that they hadn't been in cultivation long enough for hybrids to have been produced. Are you changing your mind,or do you think this is just variation in a species? :)

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

Daryl Grand Master

Daryl

Posted
Posted

Here's the trunk on my Triangle/Leptocheilos cross...

red-triangle-trunk-nov06.jpg

And the crownshaft...

redtrianglecrownshaftapril06.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

junglegalfla Veteran

junglegalfla

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Wow Daryl,

That's a stunner!

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

spockvr6 Grand Master

spockvr6

Posted
Posted

(junglegalfla @ Aug. 27 2007,09:08)

QUOTE
I think I may have the teddy-triangle cross. (no complaints!)

Then Ive got a bunch of them too.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

tikitiki Mentor

tikitiki

Posted
Posted

(junglegalfla @ Aug. 27 2007,09:08)

QUOTE
If my two palms are both leptos, they look nothing a like.

On everyone's lepto pics (gorgeous btw!), I don't see the twisted fronds like on mine. I think Christian may be right. I think I may have the teddy-triangle cross. (no complaints!)

Does anyone have a pic of a mature teddy bear-triangle cross? I don't think I've ever seen one.

My teddy triangle cross has ramenta. Do they all?

With a tin cup for a chalice

Fill it up with good red wine,

And I'm-a chewin' on a honeysuckle vine.

bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

Scott,

with reference to your comment/question above - I've just assumed that the thinner trunked ones are the true leptocheilos, and that the one in the photo in #43 is a hybrid. But maybe this is the true one? ???  Based on the description in POM, the thicker trunked one would actually be the true ones, but that's not been my experience from growing quite a few (and seeing many others). But I also remember when Don Hodel described D. leptocheilos, he indicated that there MIGHT be a third species involved. Who knows....!

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

junglegalfla Veteran

junglegalfla

Posted
  • Author
Posted

OK, as a newbie...Have to ask WTH is ramenta??  :D  :D

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Bren- I believe it is those little black or brown "broken fur strips" ?  you see on the bottom side of a leaf.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

junglegalfla Veteran

junglegalfla

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So this is ramenta?

redneck011.jpg

This is on all of them but the above pic is the back of the middle twisty frond

redneck012.jpg

Bren in South St. Pete Florida

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

From what I understand, thats Ramenta.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Al in Kona Grand Master

Al in Kona

Posted
Posted

This photo might interest most of you and it does show the differences between the two species:  Dypsis lastelliana on the left and Dypsis leptocheilos on the right.  

They are growing in Garrin Fullington's garden on Hawaii Island.

post-90-1188338188_thumb.jpg

Hawaii Island (Big Island), leeward coast, 19 degrees N. latitude, south Kona mauka at approx. 380m (1,250 ft.) and about 1.6 km (1-mile) upslope from ocean.

 

No record of a hurricane passing over this island (yet!).  

Summer maximum rainfall - variable averaging 900-1150mm (35-45") - Perfect drainage on black volcanic rocky soil.  

Nice sunsets!

Jeff in Costa Rica Grand Master

Jeff in Costa Rica

Posted
Posted

Thanks Al!  Can definitely see the difference there.

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

  • 8 years later...
Mohsen Grand Master

Mohsen

Posted
Posted

I have received Dypsis lastelliana  as bare root which I bought from eBay today...

Can someone tell me that what I got is actually Dypsis lastelliana   and not  Dypsis lepthocheilos?

Thanks in advance

Mohsen

IMG_7079.JPG

IMG_7080.JPG

IMG_7081.JPG

IMG_7082.JPG

IMG_7083.JPG

  • Upvote 1
Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted

Looks very Lastelliana to me  , but boy its gonna be a "slow grow" in Sydney, Lepto would be much more suited.

Good luck and enjoy it  if you get 1 spear a year off that little Lasty  :D

Pete :) 

  • Upvote 1
Mohsen Grand Master

Mohsen

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pedro 65 said:

Looks very Lastelliana to me  , but boy its gonna be a "slow grow" in Sydney, Lepto would be much more suited.

Good luck and enjoy it  if you get 1 spear a year off that little Lasty  :D

Pete :) 

Thanks Pedro...

I have heard that it is very slow but I want to give it a go any way...I am content with one spear a year :)

I think I can find decent size of D. Lepto  easier here to pu in ground...

I have also heard that Lepto is more cold hardy than Lastelliana ? that's why I intent to keep Lastelliana  in pot and Lepto  in ground, do you confirm?

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks Pedro...

I have heard that it is very slow but I want to give it a go any way...I am content with one spear a year :)

I think I can find decent size of D. Lepto  easier here to pu in ground...

I have also heard that Lepto is more cold hardy than Lastelliana ? that's why I intent to keep Lastelliana  in pot and Lepto  in ground, do you confirm?

Your welcome Mohsen, and yes Lepto's are more cold hardy but Lastelliana shouldnt have a worry Nth of Sydney, you should still plant your Lasty "inground"  in Spring so it can get its roots down deep and working ready to bolt up,  but in filtered light with  "plenty" of water and rich soil and food. All best with it.  Pete :) 

  • Upvote 1
Mohsen Grand Master

Mohsen

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Pedro 65 said:

Your welcome Mohsen, and yes Lepto's are more cold hardy but Lastelliana shouldnt have a worry Nth of Sydney, you should still plant your Lasty "inground"  in Spring so it can get its roots down deep and working ready to bolt up,  but in filtered light with  "plenty" of water and rich soil and food. All best with it.  Pete :) 

Thanks again Pete

and also, are they the same in regards full sun tolerance or Lep is more tolerant ?

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks again Pete

and also, are they the same in regards full sun tolerance or Lep is more tolerant ?

Lepto is much better in "full sun" esp for  thicker trunks, they never burn, just  get Bunnings to "order" you some in spring in 5 or 8" pots, they are quite fast growers  and always look neat n tidy :)    Pete

  • Upvote 1
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Yep, I agree with Pete (Most smart people do..haha) Looks like a Lass. to me.

I will say it was fun to help the Palm curator at the Singapore Bot. Garden to seperate the Lasty's from the Lepto's in the Palm area. (They had asked for any help on things we noted were wrong) I failed to get a pic, but they had a grove of them (8 or more) all together, and it was easy to spot and point out the differences. B)

  • Upvote 4

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Cindy Adair Grand Master

Cindy Adair

Posted
Posted

Again a post here inspired me to check up on mine today.

Earlier posts here said I have one of each with the fruiting one being D. leptocheilos. Tough spot to photograph in my jungle.

DSCN3622.thumb.jpg.78e93aa33a6c903dcf547

I purchased the other (in June or 2009 as a seedling) labelled D. lastelliana.

DSCN3623.thumb.jpg.10c0652d10cc811f1277a

  • Upvote 3

Cindy Adair

Mohsen Grand Master

Mohsen

Posted
Posted
On 7/9/2016, 9:01:55, Pedro 65 said:

Lepto is much better in "full sun" esp for  thicker trunks, they never burn, just  get Bunnings to "order" you some in spring in 5 or 8" pots, they are quite fast growers  and always look neat n tidy :)    Pete

Thanks Pete

 

Palmland also had decent size but very expensive,

http://www.palmland.com.au/redneck_palm/

I didn't know I can order it through Bunnings though :) 

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks Pete

 

Palmland also had decent size but very expensive,

http://www.palmland.com.au/redneck_palm/

I didn't know I can order it through Bunnings though :) 

No worries Mohosen, and re ordering through Binning, "sure can" but they wouldnt be trucking   any down till spring which isnt  too far away, plenty of time to pick some spots n get the ground ready for planting...    Pete :) 

  • Upvote 1

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