New to me Hybrid Sabal

[Chester B]

Not much to look at right now but sounded interesting enough to buy one.  They call this Sabal "Oregon", and the description is as follows:

"Hard to find live trees from seed originally sourced from an Oregon property that has many Sabal species, we believe this is an extremely hardy cross of Sabal birmingham with another hardy Sabal palm on the property (brazoriensis, louisiana, or mexicana). This palm is arborescent (trunk-forming) and grows faster and larger than regular Sabal palms, yet is just as cold-hardy as Sabal minor. This Sabal 'Oregon' Palm is a beautiful hardy hybrid palm tree that can reach heights of 8 to 15+ feet, depending on climate conditions. It seems to be be a fast grower, and has performed incredibly well in the cold high desert climate in Oregon! It is hardy to at least USDA zone 6b, and parent trees have seen temperatures well below -10F. These particular trees were grown on a property in Oregon which is listed as a zone 6b, so they should hold good cold hardiness."

If it ends up being a straight Sabal "Birmingham", I'm not going to have heart burn over it.  I love that palm too.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Chester B

[DAVEinMB]

@Chester B a trunking sabal hardy to 6b, hmm

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Chester B a trunking sabal hardy to 6b, hmm

Do I think it's hardy to 6B? - no, not at all.  I think it comes from a garden where the palms probably get help.  Out in Eastern Oregon it gets cold at night all the time, just about every night is below freezing at this time of year.

I'm in 8B so I'm not concerned about hardiness. 

[DAVEinMB]

12 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Do I think it's hardy to 6B? - no, not at all.  I think it comes from a garden where the palms probably get help.  Out in Eastern Oregon it gets cold at night all the time, just about every night is below freezing at this time of year.

I'm in 8B so I'm not concerned about hardiness. 

Yea i hear ya. However given the rest of the description it sounds like a really unique palm. Definitely going to be exciting to watch it mature

[Jimhardy]

It will be fun to watch it grow up...S.Lou and S.Braz are tough palms!

I moved about 3 years ago and there is still a S.Brazoria alive at the old place.

I know it has seen around -10F or so, snow and ice and sustained cold...of course once the growth

point(if ever) grows above ground she's done.

[teddytn]

@Chester B I know where you got that, that guy sells some cool stuff 

[BeyondTheGarden]

I ordered one of these last summer.  It sat in my greenhouse as a strap leaf and did not grow, whatsoever, for a full year, until I put it into my grow box.  Now it's clipping right along and has put out one whole strap-leaf and has started pushing out another, over the last ~2 months.  

That shop does sell some cool stuff but it's not cheap, especially since i think it's all seedlings and very small plants. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Also.  Great view through the window there!  

[Chester B]

 

25 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

I ordered one of these last summer.  It sat in my greenhouse as a strap leaf and did not grow, whatsoever, for a full year, until I put it into my grow box.  Now it's clipping right along and has put out one whole strap-leaf and has started pushing out another, over the last ~2 months.  

That shop does sell some cool stuff but it's not cheap, especially since i think it's all seedlings and very small plants. 

Well small Sabals take forever to get going at least for me.  At least with my McCurtain minors they exploded once I put them in the ground - so much faster.  This one will need to bulk up a bit and may require some rabbit proofing.  It's going to live in my office for the winter

 

4 hours ago, teddytn said:

@Chester B I know where you got that, that guy sells some cool stuff 

They're definitely zone pushing being on that side of the mountains.  I'm sure the dryness and all the sun in the high desert help.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Here's mine.  I assume they're from the same seed batch.  Yours looks bigger, so they probably had them in a climate controlled greenhouse. 

Edit: Yes I know it's overpotted but I did that on purpose knowing how much sabals love water.  And for water-loving palms I think a larger pot actual encourages faster growth.  Which has proven to be a moot point haha. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[Chester B]

@Jesse PNW I think yours may be a little bigger.  I personally don't have a problem putting Sabals in a bigger pot due to the roots.  I bet yours has been busy underground and will eventually pick up speed with the fronds. 

When I purchased this palm last week it was the only one they had listed, I went back on this morning and now they have a couple more for sale in a larger size.  Pretty bummed about that, with Sabals I always try to biggest I can get now.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Yeah...  I used to spend more time to save money.  Now I spend more money to save time.  Becomes more necessary with age.  I really wish I had gotten into palms when I was a young man. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

 

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

@Jesse PNW .....  I bet yours has been busy underground.....

You're not wrong.  Before moving it into the growbox, I tried to down-size to a 4" pot so it wouldn't take up so much real estate.  Space in the grow box is too limited.  But, the roots had taken up too much of the pot, and I can't go smaller than the 1 gal now. 

[scarecrow]

I don't trust etsy, and I don't trust sellers that use images from others on the internet. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

I've bought quite a few plants of etsy and had good luck.  However i've also seen some that are obviously scams.  Images of plants that have obviously been photoshopped to make them appear a different color for example.  And I've learned you can never trust the hardiness rating from someone who is trying to sell you something that is advertised as "cold hardy".  

[MarkbVet]

9 hours ago, Chester B said:

Not much to look at right now but sounded interesting enough to buy one.  They call this Sabal "Oregon", and the description is as follows:

"Hard to find live trees from seed originally sourced from an Oregon property that has many Sabal species, we believe this is an extremely hardy cross of Sabal birmingham with another hardy Sabal palm on the property (brazoriensis, louisiana, or mexicana). This palm is arborescent (trunk-forming) and grows faster and larger than regular Sabal palms, yet is just as cold-hardy as Sabal minor. This Sabal 'Oregon' Palm is a beautiful hardy hybrid palm tree that can reach heights of 8 to 15+ feet, depending on climate conditions. It seems to be be a fast grower, and has performed incredibly well in the cold high desert climate in Oregon! It is hardy to at least USDA zone 6b, and parent trees have seen temperatures well below -10F. These particular trees were grown on a property in Oregon which is listed as a zone 6b, so they should hold good cold hardiness."

If it ends up being a straight Sabal "Birmingham", I'm not going to have heart burn over it.  I love that palm too.

From the plant name "oregon' and climate zone description, it has to be from Desertscape.  They do grow stuff in a cold climate zone,  only caveat is they're very dry in winter (and summer) so what they get to thrive doesn't always translate to our western Oregon climate (with tons of rain)...example being their Washintonia palms.  With Sabal of course I'd be a lot less worried re: the rain.  That looks like a good get, who knows what's mixed in, but I too would be happy with a pure Birmingham plant!   Thanks for sharing-- just the 'fast growing' part makes me want one!   Good luck!     :-)

[Chester B]

@MarkbVet you are correct as to the source. I have many Sabals including all of the potential parents. They do quite well here just not as fast growing as in the SE states. Sabal brazoriensis is the outlier for me, mine puts out several huge fronds per year and flowers every year too. It’s now taller than me and only seems to be speeding up as it’s now fully acclimated to my yard. As I’m sure you’re already aware Washingtonia really hate the combo of wet cold, but there are a few around that seem to be tolerating it. I’ve had one for a few years that refuses to die but looks terrible come spring. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

It's nice that they're shipping them in soil now.  My memory isn't great but I'm pretty sure mine was bare-rooted.  I've ordered quite a few Sabal seedlings, pretty sure they've all come bare-rooted, and there's always an attrition rate of about 50%.  

[Trustandi]

@Chester B you should stop mentioning about new sabal palms. I might get addicted to more sabal palms; it started with your gorgeous Sabal brazoriensis. Hehe

[MarkbVet]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

@MarkbVet you are correct as to the source. I have many Sabals including all of the potential parents. They do quite well here just not as fast growing as in the SE states. Sabal brazoriensis is the outlier for me, mine puts out several huge fronds per year and flowers every year too. It’s now taller than me and only seems to be speeding up as it’s now fully acclimated to my yard. As I’m sure you’re already aware Washingtonia really hate the combo of wet cold, but there are a few around that seem to be tolerating it. I’ve had one for a few years that refuses to die but looks terrible come spring. 

Nice to hear, as I want to try brazoriensis and Birmingham, they're I think the only readily-trunking variants of S. minor (well, hybrids of S. minor and S. palmetto probably, right?) I'm hoping for faster growth than typical S. minor too, so encouraged to hear your results.  How does birmingham compare to brazoriensis in terms of growth??    

I've got a seedling of Washingtonia "filibusta',  hoping for the cold tolerance of W. filifera and the wet tolerance of W. robusta.   Many of these young palms I'll keep in pots until I move to Jacksonville in So. Oregon, where 'wet' ain't an issue any more.   I can expand my cactus collection to even more varieties down there as well; I've even got an Argentinian Saguaro that gets as big as the American species (but more cold hardy)...it rots up here toward end of winter, but planted against a building in a rain shadow, it's done great here.  Around Medford it will likely do fine out in the garden w/o protection!   Man I'm gonna enjoy puttering in the garden when I retire!  (once retired, you're allowed to officially 'putter' hehe).   Mark

[Chester B]

11 hours ago, Trustandi said:

@Chester B you should stop mentioning about new sabal palms. I might get addicted to more sabal palms; it started with your gorgeous Sabal brazoriensis. Hehe

Then you better not pay any attention to @PalmatierMeg or any of her posts.  She's the OG Sabal dealer on this website, got many of us hooked.

11 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

How does birmingham compare to brazoriensis in terms of growth??    

I just got it this year and its still in a pot, I'll be planting it in my front yard - full sun south facing in the spring.  So I really can't say but it does seem the most people say its slow.  Louisiana is another similar one that most people report a fast growth rate.  I have two but they are shaded a too much so they don't grow as quickly as they should.

 

11 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

I've got a seedling of Washingtonia "filibusta',  hoping for the cold tolerance of W. filifera and the wet tolerance of W. robusta.   Many of these young palms I'll keep in pots until I move to Jacksonville in So. Oregon, where 'wet' ain't an issue any more.   I can expand my cactus collection to even more varieties down there as well; I've even got an Argentinian Saguaro that gets as big as the American species (but more cold hardy)...it rots up here toward end of winter, but planted against a building in a rain shadow, it's done great here.  Around Medford it will likely do fine out in the garden w/o protection!

That's great.  I always watch their weather, I love how it hot it gets down there.  Washies will do great and you could probably get away with some Phoenix palms too plus many others.  Gotta love that dry heat and cold.

[Hutch]

That is a interesting one for sure...6b....Eastern Or....man..im not sure I'm convinced on that...it can be below freezing for weeks on end...anyways if it pans out that is awesome!

[Chester B]

3 hours ago, Hutch said:

That is a interesting one for sure...6b....Eastern Or....man..im not sure I'm convinced on that...it can be below freezing for weeks on end...anyways if it pans out that is awesome!

In zone 8b I’ll never know. 

[Collectorpalms]

I just noticed that Sabal Oregon seller on Etsy is using a picture of twin Sabal minor Louisiana’s? From Mercer Arboretum in Houston, TX. Sabal minor actually grow in the stream that borders the Arboretum. So they just may be ones that they let grow when garden began.

it may even be my picture swiped from me or another palm talker awhile ago.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

Found same palms on Pinterest under a different name. Sigh…..

[Meangreen94z]

Yes they slap Oregon on everything. Plants that are native to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, California etc. They had an Agave Neomexicana x Utahensis hybrid that was cultivated by cold hardy cactus nursery in Colorado that they buy and resell under the “Oregon” label. I guess for people in that high elevation desert area in Oregon, Idaho, etc. it’s a climate compatibility  reference. 

[Chester B]

19 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

it may even be my picture swiped from me or another palm talker awhile ago.

I wouldn’t be surprised. I wish they’d use the actual pictures of the palms in the garden. 

[Collectorpalms]

Same palms? .... and not overly pruned? They look a bit different and less minor-esque. My most recent pictures June 2018. They were doing a lot of work in the palm garden with making bed borders. Maybe the flood from Hurricane Harvey messed them up big time. I still question the accuracy of any palm tags, Sabal Brazoria???. Maybe? A lot of palms are misslabled at Arboretums in Texas.   I can only vouch for mine since I collected the seed and grew it myself.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[D Palm]

I have also observed eBay and Etsy sellers “borrowing” pics from “mother” plants & palms. Sabals are not fast and even slower when not in ideal growing conditions. 
 

Keep us posted in the years to come!

[Chester B]

4 minutes ago, D Palm said:

I have also observed eBay and Etsy sellers “borrowing” pics from “mother” plants & palms. Sabals are not fast and even slower when not in ideal growing conditions. 
 

Keep us posted in the years to come!

Let’s hope I don’t kill it first. Small palms can be finicky!

[BeyondTheGarden]

Repotting today, just adding more soil into the bottom of the 1gal.  Subterranean trunk coming along nicely. 

[Alex Zone 5]

Judging by today pictures, I'll say it's a fast growing palm!!🤔🤔🌴🌴

[RFun]

My guess is that the "Oregon" Sabal is probably Sabal Brazoria.  Those are tough palms.  Could be Sabal Birmingham as well or a cross between the two.  I wouldn't think it would grow very fast in the ground in Oregon unless you've adapted the soil.  Willamette Valley or the coast would be the preferred climate areas.  I have seen Sabal Birminghams in Florida that are vigorous growers with a very generous amount of trunks on them.  They look like Sabal Palmettos (Cabbage Palms).

Edited September 24, 2023 by RFun

[Dwarf Fan]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:41 AM, RFun said:

My guess is that the "Oregon" Sabal is probably Sabal Brazoria.  Those are tough palms.  Could be Sabal Birmingham as well or a cross between the two.  I wouldn't think it would grow very fast in the ground in Oregon unless you've adapted the soil.  Willamette Valley or the coast would be the preferred climate areas.  I have seen Sabal Birminghams in Florida that are vigorous growers with a very generous amount of trunks on them.  They look like Sabal Palmettos (Cabbage Palms).

^^^ Agreed, from the Cold Hardiness reports the only two options are S. Brazoria or S. Birmingham or a Hybrid of both.

[Chester B]

Mine is a slug, I still have it.  The more I thought about it, its unlikely that the parent palm would produce all hybrids.  I bet all the seed are straight Birmingham, Sabals are self fertile after all.  Based on how slow it grows, the only other Sabal I have that is this glacial is a larger Sabal Birmingham.    Next spring hopefully I'll be planting it in the ground at my new place in Houston so that should help get it moving.