Washy hardiness opportunity :

[Will Simpson]

I got down to 24F the night before last , and it will be well above that for the next few weeks , it looks like ,  so  I should  finally be able to  find out if my Washy is hardy at 24F or if damage starts , etc.  I always thought it was frond hardy to 23F , and now I will have a perfect opportunity to at least take 24F off of the damage question about its hardiness . If it handles 24F well it might look decent well into December or into January  .

I'll  watch it over the next few weeks and see what 24F does to it . 

 

 

 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

Looks like it handled a quick dip to 24F. The issue is how it will handle many consecutive hours/even days of temps below 30F.

[Will Simpson]

I'll protect the trunk , which I have to do at least  50% of the winters here , if I see something  below 16F . I've been lucky the last 2 winters with a low  of 19F for the winter of 2019-2020 ,  and a low of 16F for last winter . 

Will

Edited November 25, 2021 by Will Simpson

[UK_Palms]

As Meg says, a late fall freeze down to 24F isn't so much of a problem when the following day warms up to 50-60F and then no more freezes for a week or two. The problems will come later in winter when you start having a low of 23-24F followed by a high of only 34-35F during the day and then another low of 24F the following night. Basically 18 hours below freezing at a time. If you guys get snow as well it will trash the fronds, so it will be near impossible to tell what temperatures damaged the fronds, since the snow will damage them regardless. Unless you only get a light dusting. Mind you the Robusta's in London didn't take damage last winter, despite it being a pretty long, harsh winter with lows down to 23F. There's lots of variables at play and perhaps there is more Filifera genetics in that hybrid than you think...

[Will Simpson]

I had a  several day cold snap in 2019-20 ,  and had a rare  20F Llow on November 13th . That 20F did zap it . The one other temperature lower than that in that winter  was a January or February 19F . That pissed me off to have that palm turn ugly on  November 13th  .

I get a good feel for what damages it as I assess it going into December .

Thanks ,

Will

Edited November 25, 2021 by Will Simpson

[Jimhardy]

geeeez.    Its not like your some newbie asking for advice or something..and

you just plated the palm at that size haha.....mine was always good to 23F and

then the leaves would take some damage....anyway,I think you have been more than

successful at growing that Washy there and knowing what to do over the years to keep it alive.

[Las Palmas Norte]

As pointed out, it duration of the freeze. You can put a delicate butterfly in a freezer for a few minutes with no issues. Beyond that, well ...

[Will Simpson]

On 11/25/2021 at 5:33 PM, Jimhardy said:

geeeez.    Its not like your some newbie asking for advice or something..and

you just plated the palm at that size haha.....mine was always good to 23F and

then the leaves would take some damage....anyway,I think you have been more than

successful at growing that Washy there and knowing what to do over the years to keep it alive.

I have learned a lot over the years but it's nice to have a 24F and then not see colder temperatures  for a few weeks later to see what a 24F does to the fronds . Maybe later I'll have a 23F and then some milder weather to see exactly what 23F does to the fronds . So far so good at 24F Jim  .

Will

[Will Simpson]

On 11/25/2021 at 12:17 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Looks like it handled a quick dip to 24F. The issue is how it will handle many consecutive hours/even days of temps below 30F.

It will look like crap almost certainly at some point in the winter , but  I rarely have days that don't get to 32F for a High temperature  though . In 2018 I had a record number of days that stayed below 32F , which was 8 days . I was told that was a 100 year  type of year event for here .

Will

[knikfar]

4 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

It will look like crap almost certainly at some point in the winter , but  I rarely have days that don't get to 32F for a High temperature  though . In 2018 I had a record number of days that stayed below 32F , which was 8 days . I was told that was a 100 year  type of year event for here .

Will

I'll never forget that winter. I kept thinking "I moved here from the DC area to get away from this!!!!"

[Will Simpson]

Yes , every day I was watching the forecast for when that craziness would end . 

Will

[PalmatierMeg]

18 hours ago, knikfar said:

I'll never forget that winter. I kept thinking "I moved here from the DC area to get away from this!!!!"

You moved from the Washington area to Raleigh to get away from winter weather? My brother has lived in Raleigh for 35 years. It's the major ice storm capital of the SE US.They get far more ice there than snow.

[PalmsNC]

50 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

You moved from the Washington area to Raleigh to get away from winter weather? My brother has lived in Raleigh for 35 years. It's the major ice storm capital of the SE US.They get far more ice there than snow.

Major Ice storm capital? We haven't had a major ice storm in some 19 years here. If you had said Roanoke VA you would be correct, and both locations receive more snow than ice.

[PalmsNC]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:51 PM, UK_Palms said:

As Meg says, a late fall freeze down to 24F isn't so much of a problem when the following day warms up to 50-60F and then no more freezes for a week or two. The problems will come later in winter when you start having a low of 23-24F followed by a high of only 34-35F during the day and then another low of 24F the following night. Basically 18 hours below freezing at a time. If you guys get snow as well it will trash the fronds, so it will be near impossible to tell what temperatures damaged the fronds, since the snow will damage them regardless. Unless you only get a light dusting. Mind you the Robusta's in London didn't take damage last winter, despite it being a pretty long, harsh winter with lows down to 23F. There's lots of variables at play and perhaps there is more Filifera genetics in that hybrid than you think...

A low of 23 here is followed typically by highs in the 40s not low or mid 30s.

[knikfar]

22 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

You moved from the Washington area to Raleigh to get away from winter weather? My brother has lived in Raleigh for 35 years. It's the major ice storm capital of the SE US.They get far more ice there than snow.

I can tell you the climate here is noticably warmer than the DC area. I can grow at least five different species of palms here without ever having to protect them. We get an average of 3 inches of snow per year vs the 18 in the DC area. We're on the 7b/8a hardiness line, about a full zone higher than I was in DC. We have winter here and its a nice winter. A good mix of chilly days, a little bit of snow, a nice amount of 60 degree+ days and the ground never freezes. The winter of 2018 was like a typical DC winter. I've lived here since 2015 and that is the only winter we've had like that. So yes, we do have a winter. This isn't Florida or California. But we don't have what I consider the typical extreme DC winter unless its a record breaking event. As a write this message, its currently 60 degrees on December 3rd here in Raleigh. It's 51 in DC. Our high today is 71. Their high is 53. Not a HUGE difference but different enough for me. 

[ahosey01]

Is this a pure robusta or a hybrid?

Curious because even dips to 20F don’t seem to defoliate anything in my neighborhood.  Maybe it’s the dryness or the fact we rebound to 70F during the day.

[UK_Palms]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:15 PM, PalmsNC said:

A low of 23 here is followed typically by highs in the 40s not low or mid 30s.

Are you saying that you don’t ever have nights in the low 20’s followed by highs in the mid 30’s the next day? I get that you would generally rebound to 40’s F during the day (the same here) but that is not always the case during cold snaps in winter. You need to factor in a few very cold days that won’t fall in line with the average. 

If I have a low of 23F it is usually followed by highs in the 40’s the next day as well, just like your location, however a few days each year will see temps struggle to get above the mid 30’s F here during a bad cold snap. I’m pretty sure you guys will have the same issue on a few of the colder days/nights. On those days, the lack of daytime rebound in temperatures may exacerbate damage to washies.

[Will Simpson]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:15 PM, PalmsNC said:

A low of 23 here is followed typically by highs in the 40s not low or mid 30s.

These are the  temperatures  during that  unusual cold snap  in   November 2019  :

November 12th   High 55F   Low 26F

November  13th  High 37F   Low 21F ( that was the night that zapped the Washy )

November  14th  High 50F   Low 24F 

After those 3  cold days  the temperatures were more normal . 

[Jimhardy]

Will

 

Your request to see what 24F would do to your Washy has turned into

constant comments on anything( but your original question) from the peanut gallery..

It always baffles me when you ask one question(apparently they don't have the answer for)

so it gets changed into something else....Will if I am wrong let me know but I am guessing you

know the difference between seeing what the low 20s do to a palm vs now adding more freezing

nights and days- the question was what a low of 24F or less would do to your Washy...?

I used to use this information as a gauge for when to cover mine...23F or less it got covered

(It was still small enough to save the leaves) anything colder or prolonged and they also get covered.

Of course if it gets down to blah blah blah for blah blah blah you will need blah blah blah blah blah.

[Will Simpson]

Yes Jim .  

I'm happy to know that in a typical weather period , and with a Low  of 24F and above ,  it will look decent without damage , Thankfully , I'm not seeing anything in the forecastable future that cold . It would be nice to get that palm looking decent into January . 

Will

[Jimhardy]

...or even through the whole winter ...wouldn't that be nice.

 

Doesn't look like any Arctic air anytime soon, although cold early next week

it does appear to moderate after.

[Allen]

Jan 1st - 20th the worst time

[Will Simpson]

On 12/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, ahosey01 said:

Is this a pure robusta or a hybrid?

Curious because even dips to 20F don’t seem to defoliate anything in my neighborhood.  Maybe it’s the dryness or the fact we rebound to 70F during the day.

I think it is heavy on the Robusta side . If it were more Filifera it might look decent after some winters when our Low only gets down to around 20F . 

Will

[Will Simpson]

On 12/4/2021 at 5:23 PM, Jimhardy said:

...or even through the whole winter ...wouldn't that be nice.

 

Doesn't look like any Arctic air anytime soon, although cold early next week

it does appear to moderate after.

Jim ,

I think I looked over all the historic winter Lows and I might have seen 1 or 2 winters in our recorded history where the Low for the winter was 23F at the lowest . So there isn't a good chance of a winter like that , but maybe it's time ?

Will

[Jimhardy]

Thats the magic temp too for that palm...best I have seen 

around here is 0 F and that was close....if there is snow on the ground

here it doesn't take much to go below Zero