Baby Palms ID Please

[chinandega81]

I bought an African Tulip Tree a year ago at a local South Florida nursery. As soon as I planted it into the ground, little spears emerged. Aparently the soil has seeds in it and they sprouted. They haven't grown much, but they are in shade all day and moist. Can anyone ID these baby palms and tell me what they might be?

[Palmarum]

Are the leaves silver or whitish underneath?

They kinda look like Arenga sp. seedlings, with that paddle shape leaf. Would need a larger photo or more detail to guess again.

Ryan

[chinandega81]

16 minutes ago, Palmarum said:

Are the leaves silver or whitish underneath?

They kinda look like Arenga sp. seedlings, with that paddle shape leaf. Would need a larger photo or more detail to guess again.

Ryan

No, just green. My pic is clear on my computer but when I upload it, the quality deteriorates, not sure why.

[chinandega81]

[Palmarum]

They look more Arenga sp. now than they did before. The larger specimen on the left appears to have a whitish underside on the newest emergent leaf. If not Arenga, then the cousin genus Wallichia, but it is less likely to have a female Wallichia just dropping seed randomly.

They should grow quickly and will be more easily identifiable when they are larger. They should be moved to one or three-gallon-sized pots while they are small. If they turn out to be a larger species, you might not want them residing there as ground cover.

Ryan

[Merlyn]

I agree with Ryan, they look a lot like an Arenga leaf.  What species is probably a guess at this size, but it's probably something Arenga, Wallichia, or maybe even Caryota.  Practically none of those genus are small palms, most of them are decent size up to absolute monsters.  I'd try to carefully extract them and pot up the seedlings into quart or 1 gallon pots for a while.  Then step up once they've recovered from being dug up, maybe in a few months it'll be easy to make an ID.  They could be a really neat small palm like Arenga Caudata, or a gigantic beast like Arenga Pinnata.  Either way, you probably don't want it growing directly next to the trunk of your tree. 

[chinandega81]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:36 PM, Merlyn said:

I agree with Ryan, they look a lot like an Arenga leaf.  What species is probably a guess at this size, but it's probably something Arenga, Wallichia, or maybe even Caryota.  Practically none of those genus are small palms, most of them are decent size up to absolute monsters.  I'd try to carefully extract them and pot up the seedlings into quart or 1 gallon pots for a while.  Then step up once they've recovered from being dug up, maybe in a few months it'll be easy to make an ID.  They could be a really neat small palm like Arenga Caudata, or a gigantic beast like Arenga Pinnata.  Either way, you probably don't want it growing directly next to the trunk of your tree. 

 

On 8/3/2021 at 11:48 AM, Palmarum said:

They look more Arenga sp. now than they did before. The larger specimen on the left appears to have a whitish underside on the newest emergent leaf. If not Arenga, then the cousin genus Wallichia, but it is less likely to have a female Wallichia just dropping seed randomly.

They should grow quickly and will be more easily identifiable when they are larger. They should be moved to one or three-gallon-sized pots while they are small. If they turn out to be a larger species, you might not want them residing there as ground cover.

Ryan

Thank you. I don't want any large palms, I was hoping for licualas and was just going to leave them. Do the Arenga grow fast and easily in South Florida? Do they need a lot of care? I can always transplant and gorilla plant them somewhere nearby my house too.

[Palmarum]

5 hours ago, chinandega81 said:

... Do the Arenga grow fast and easily in South Florida? Do they need a lot of care? I can always transplant and gorilla plant them somewhere nearby my house too.

Many of the Arenga species can grow quite fast and are easy to grow. The dwarf species are easy to maintain and the moderate to large species can become striking garden behemoths. They adapt easily to life in pots. They transplant easily as well, just try not to damage the roots too much and use well-draining acidic soil in the containers. A liquid or time-release fertilizer can be used after moving them to their new home.

Ryan

[Merlyn]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:43 PM, chinandega81 said:

Thank you. I don't want any large palms, I was hoping for licualas and was just going to leave them. Do the Arenga grow fast and easily in South Florida? Do they need a lot of care? I can always transplant and gorilla plant them somewhere nearby my house too.

If you could post a larger photo that would help with ID.  Most of my photo posts are around 2000x2000 pixels, about 1-1.2MB.  If the underside of the leaves aren't silvery, then it's possible they are a different species.  Kerriodoxa Elegans is also silvery-white under the leaves, and that would be an awesome freebie. 

[chinandega81]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

If you could post a larger photo that would help with ID.  Most of my photo posts are around 2000x2000 pixels, about 1-1.2MB.  If the underside of the leaves aren't silvery, then it's possible they are a different species.  Kerriodoxa Elegans is also silvery-white under the leaves, and that would be an awesome freebie. 

In case you missed it, I posted a larger, clearer pic on "Monday at 6:59PM," aaccording to the timestamp on the post. This was shortly after I posted the initial one. 

[Jimhardy]

To me they look like Licuala Grandis...maybe they are not but that is what 

I was reminded of when I saw them-its seems pretty unlikely ....L.grandis

seeds are about a half inch in size but if thats what they are it wouldnt

be worth it to lose a single one digging around to see if there are seeds visible...

I think you will know soon enough as the largest one is getting some nice leaves going.

[chinandega81]

17 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Hmm, I only see the first "thumbnail" sized photo.  The Monday at 6:59PM post just says "Descripcion no disponible" on my view.  Odd, does it have the photo in your view?

Very odd. I see the image but in the screenshot you took I see what you see. I can text you a pic??? Not sure what is going on...

[Merlyn]

2 minutes ago, chinandega81 said:

Very odd. I see the image but in the screenshot you took I see what you see. I can text you a pic??? Not sure what is going on...

Yeah it's gotta be just an odd forum glitch.  Try just posting the same larger photo again.

[chinandega81]

[chinandega81]

2 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Yeah it's gotta be just an odd forum glitch.  Try just posting the same larger photo again.

For some reason it comes out tiny, I don't know why. The other choice it gives it to create a URL and I don't know how to do that.

[chinandega81]

8 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Yeah it's gotta be just an odd forum glitch.  Try just posting the same larger photo again.

I reposted the larger image, can you see it now?

 

1 minute ago, chinandega81 said:

https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media/?thread_id=100000524561182&attachment_id=1011384639696757&message_id=mid.%24cAABa8y--ax6BOjYmbF7CPDO1Dgxe

 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, chinandega81 said:

I reposted the larger image, can you see it now?

Yep, that works!  I'm guessing it's because it is a Facebook messenger link to a photo, instead of just the raw JPG.  I usually browse PalmTalk on a PC, so for me editing photos in GIMP and then drag-and-drop works well.  Anyway, my first though on seeing the big photo is Arenga Engleri.  At that size it's hard to tell, but they look basically identical to the bottom two photos here:

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Arenga_engleri

I don't think it's a Caryota, IIRC they come up with a sort of split-triangle-ish looking leaf.

[chinandega81]

4 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Yep, that works!  I'm guessing it's because it is a Facebook messenger link to a photo, instead of just the raw JPG.  I usually browse PalmTalk on a PC, so for me editing photos in GIMP and then drag-and-drop works well.  Anyway, my first though on seeing the big photo is Arenga Engleri.  At that size it's hard to tell, but they look basically identical to the bottom two photos here:

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Arenga_engleri

I don't think it's a Caryota, IIRC they come up with a sort of split-triangle-ish looking leaf.

Thank you. I will keep you updated as they grow. I hat racked the African Tulip (too crown heavy, was leaning after a storm) so now they get much more sun. I have a bridal bouquet plant that shades them from the harshest PM sun though.  I read up on the Arenga englari, had no idea they were so cold hardy. They should be planted more in Florida (up to zone 8b aparently). If I understood correctly, they grow quickly and then flower and die? How long does one live approximately? 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, chinandega81 said:

Thank you. I will keep you updated as they grow. I hat racked the African Tulip (too crown heavy, was leaning after a storm) so now they get much more sun. I have a bridal bouquet plant that shades them from the harshest PM sun though.  I read up on the Arenga englari, had no idea they were so cold hardy. They should be planted more in Florida (up to zone 8b aparently). If I understood correctly, they grow quickly and then flower and die? How long does one live approximately? 

Just post more pictures here once they grow, so we can see if our guesses were right!    Arenga Engleri is one of my favorites.  It's a clustering palm, and a slow grower.  It's not ridiculously slow, but only puts out a few new fronds per year for me.  They are one of the hardier pinnate palms, easily good to 9a/8b borderlines.  The only one that's not too hardy is the nearly identical-looking Arenga Tremula.  The only way I can tell them apart is that Engleri's leaves are all in a consistent flattish "V" pattern, much like a Bottle/Spindle.  Tremula has paired/triplet/quad leaf clusters down near the base of the stem.  And Tremula takes 50% burn with any frost or temps much below freezing.  I only know this because I bought several Engleri, and one burned really bad at 28F...because it was a Tremula!

Anyway, yes the individual stem dies after flowering, much like a Caryota Mitis.  But because it's a clustering palm, I think most of them will just keep on growing offsets after a couple of trunks flower and die.  It might be irritating to remove big trunks, but at least they aren't thorny like Phoenix!