Can cocos survive in Lindos,Rhodes in Greece?

[southathens]

9 minutes ago, bubba said:

La Quinta, California is located at 33.6 degrees north and has what I believed to be the furthest northern Cocos nucifera in the world. Reports from Port Elizabeth, SA have never been supported by evidence.

The trunking Cocos nucifera in Cyprus is located at  34.8 degrees north and consequently the world champion! Maurice at 36 degrees north would definitely become the world champion. This latitude is equal to Nashville, Tennessee for comparison! This is mind boggling to those on the east coast of the US. Florida tops out just under 30 degrees north for comparison.

That's why we should all motivate Maurice to plant the coco on the ground in Rhodes the next few months. It will then pretty soon become legitimately a new world record...

Btw we are compiling a new email to the Rhodes Municipality ( Green Service) to have them examine the possibility of planting cocos inside the city of Rhodes. This is all due to Maurice and his huge efforts!

This time and already having outdoors cocos surviving, as Maurice has shown us, we believe the Rhodes Municipality will respond positively...Or at least they will think about it seriously...

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, southathens said:

That's why we should all motivate Maurice to plant the coco on the ground in Rhodes the next few months. It will then pretty soon become legitimately a new world record...

Btw we are compiling a new email to the Rhodes Municipality ( Green Service) to have them examine the possibility of planting cocos inside the city of Rhodes. This is all due to Maurice and his huge efforts!

This time and already having outdoors cocos surviving, as Maurice has shown us, we believe the Rhodes Municipality will respond positively...Or at least they will think about it seriously...

That would be great if some got planted in the ground there.

[southathens]

3 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

That would be great if some got planted in the ground there.

Yeah we emailed them last year (before I got wind of Maurice's cocos) and they simply ignored us.

 

[bubba]

This thread should somehow be linked with the current thread in PalmTalk "Discussing Palms Worldwide-Furthest Coconut from the Equator". Axel posted a picture of a Coconut palm in Malaga, Spain that is thriving but in a pot at 36.8 degrees north. "The Maltese Coconut Project" pictured a planted and surviving Coconut at 35 degrees north, which I would nominate now as the leader in clubhouse if it were less yellow, which may get better as it grows. I still believe, with no disrespect to Maltese, that Stelios's coconut in Cyprus, at 34.8 degrees north, constitutes the current leader!

Maurice's green thriving coconut, in the pot, in the islands of southern Greece at 36 degrees north is the next truly viable candidate. Axel made a point about "variety" that got my attention. Specifically, he pointed out the difference between the tall variety and the variety commonly grown that I believe Maltese is growing, which has proven to be more cold tolerant. To that point, the La Quinta coconut (33.6 north) and prior Newport Beach coconut (33.6 north) were both Talls. I wonder if Stelios and Maurice happen to have Talls or that their microclimates make variety unimportant.

To all these points, please find:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/9024-coconut-growing-farthest-from-equator/?&page=12#comments

 

[southathens]

On 5/3/2025 at 11:53 PM, bubba said:

This thread should somehow be linked with the current thread in PalmTalk "Discussing Palms Worldwide-Furthest Coconut from the Equator". Axel posted a picture of a Coconut palm in Malaga, Spain that is thriving but in a pot at 36.8 degrees north. "The Maltese Coconut Project" pictured a planted and surviving Coconut at 35 degrees north, which I would nominate now as the leader in clubhouse if it were less yellow, which may get better as it grows. I still believe, with no disrespect to Maltese, that Stelios's coconut in Cyprus, at 34.8 degrees north, constitutes the current leader!

Maurice's green thriving coconut, in the pot, in the islands of southern Greece at 36 degrees north is the next truly viable candidate. Axel made a point about "variety" that got my attention. Specifically, he pointed out the difference between the tall variety and the variety commonly grown that I believe Maltese is growing, which has proven to be more cold tolerant. To that point, the La Quinta coconut (33.6 north) and prior Newport Beach coconut (33.6 north) were both Talls. I wonder if Stelios and Maurice happen to have Talls or that their microclimates make variety unimportant.

To all these points, please find:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/9024-coconut-growing-farthest-from-equator/?&page=12#comments

 

Thanks for this!

I' ve posted over there with a brief synopsis on the current situation regarding the Lindos coco!

I will also keep you updated on this thread regarding our communication with the Municipality of Rhodes. 

[bubba]

This is very interesting and Maurice at Lindos definitely has a potted Coconut at 36° north, which is extremely healthy and green. The ability to grow a hurricane palm outdoors without attention demonstrates that he is in a remarkable microclimate. 
 

Maltese may be furtherest from the equator but Stelios, in my humble opinion, with a trunking coconut at 34° .8 N. is definitely the leader in the clubhouse. Unfortunately for Maltese, the condition of the Coconut ( extremely yellow) does not allow it to qualify as a thriving Coconut.

I do not have any information beyond the picture of the coconut potted in Malaga, Spain at 36° 8 N.. it is large and green enough to qualify for surviving versus thriving. However, until a Coconut is revealed that is not potted, it cannot qualify. Additionally, there are numerous pointed stories about attempts throughout the southern Spanish coast of failure to cause doubt, about the true ability of this Spanish climate, to sustain a viable Coconut.

Axel did make an interesting point about the tall variety versus the variety generally planted or attempted to be grown in the Mediterranean. The tall variety he pictured definitely looked greener and more vivid in his climate in the Netherlands. The tall variety has shown outstanding characteristics in both the La Quinta coconut and the Newport Beach coconut. However, the micro climate in Lindos and Cyprus may make variety an unnecessary requirement!

 

 

[Axel Amsterdam]

For those interested, this is the thread on an old spanish forun about the Malaga coconut.  It’s. a fascinating story from a sprouted supermarket coconut to a large potted plant that has been outside permanently for years since it became too big. 

 

https://archivo.infojardin.com/tema/cocotero-en-malaga.510193/

[Axel Amsterdam]

double post

[Axel Amsterdam]

Although I believe the tall variety to be the best option (mine stayed perfectly green in temps considered as cold winterlows in Malta 15C during the day and 6C during night ) it is possible to archieve succes with dwarf varieties. The one in Malaga definitely didn’t look like a tall as a small plant.

[southathens]

20 hours ago, bubba said:

This is very interesting and Maurice at Lindos definitely has a potted Coconut at 36° north, which is extremely healthy and green. The ability to grow a hurricane palm outdoors without attention demonstrates that he is in a remarkable microclimate. 
 

Dont forget also the Praktiker cocos surviving interchangeably 24/7 outdoors in the city of Rhodes.

As Maurice said these cocos are renewed every few months but still its amazing that virtually dozens at a time can survive outdoors in the city of Rhodes!

[Axel Amsterdam]

6 hours ago, southathens said:

Dont forget also the Praktiker cocos surviving interchangeably 24/7 outdoors in the city of Rhodes.

As Maurice said these cocos are renewed every few months but still its amazing that virtually dozens at a time can survive outdoors in the city of Rhodes!

For me this is not the same. By taking them inside at night they experience consistent mild temperatures without cold swings. 

[southathens]

11 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

For me this is not the same. By taking them inside at night they experience consistent mild temperatures without cold swings. 

I think you missed Maurice's post. The cocos remain outside the shop 24/7 at a specific outdoor location next to the car park. Maurice linked us the satellite images as well that u can spot the cocos outside the shop when its closed. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

1 hour ago, southathens said:

I think you missed Maurice's post. The cocos remain outside the shop 24/7 at a specific outdoor location next to the car park. Maurice linked us the satellite images as well that u can spot the cocos outside the shop when its closed. 

Ah ok sorry, that’s really promising!

[mlovecan]

On 4/27/2025 at 6:07 PM, southathens said:

That's why we should all motivate Maurice to plant the coco on the ground in Rhodes the next few months. It will then pretty soon become legitimately a new world record...

Btw we are compiling a new email to the Rhodes Municipality ( Green Service) to have them examine the possibility of planting cocos inside the city of Rhodes. This is all due to Maurice and his huge efforts!

This time and already having outdoors cocos surviving, as Maurice has shown us, we believe the Rhodes Municipality will respond positively...Or at least they will think about it seriously...

I'm pretty sure they will never answer. If I'm in Athens, I can get many things done quite quickly. As soon as I return to the island, things go into slow motion especially when it comes to the civil servants - not showing up for work in the morning is quite common. Staying home and having a nap is often preferred.

I would think you would have better luck speaking to some of the businesses around the harbour. Very good candidates are Rhodes Casino (right at the sea - even a beach behind it), Kontiki Bar (a floating barge tied up in the harbour - now undergoing a complete 2 million euro refurb under a new owner https://www.dimokratiki.gr/29-01-2025/anagennisi-stin-kardia-tou-mandrakiou-dromologithike-i-emvlimatiki-epistrofi-tou-plotou-estiatoriou-kontiki/) and the 5 star Mediterraneo hotel (who have a couple interesting palms out front and is across the street from the beach).  Just outside the city, in a slightly warmer microclimate there's Almalfi Coast (formerly Lindsay Lohan's Beach Club). Only Amalfi is seasonal. The others are open all year round. All of these businesses have full-time gardeners and put an effort into their landscapes. 

If you direct them towards Praktiker, they all know exactly where it is. 

[mlovecan]

My Panama talls have made their way to Greece pretty quickly. Now let's see how fast they get here once they enter the Greek postal service USPS just picked them up on the 12th) It appears they've made it through customs but it's not certain: 

[mirandamavrogianni]

1 hour ago, mlovecan said:

My Panama talls have made their way to Greece pretty quickly. Now let's see how fast they get here once they enter the Greek postal service USPS just picked them up on the 12th) It appears they've made it through customs but it's not certain: 

How come you chose the Panama Talls instead of the Malaysian Dwarf?

[mirandamavrogianni]

On 4/26/2025 at 1:15 PM, southathens said:

 

Statistically speaking it is nearly impossible for Greece to have a repeat of the 2024 summer. According to the papers I read this must be 1 in every 500 years heatwave...We've never seen this before the past at least 2 centuries that we have data from Greece. 

You are right about this winter. South Crete locally had a mean max T for January at 20.1C! It was crazy mild/hot winter indeed. 

where in crete do you think would be the most ideal location to start growing coconuts? i’m planning to move there from mílos! 

[mlovecan]

38 minutes ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

How come you chose the Panama Talls instead of the Malaysian Dwarf?

The Malaysian dwarfs are the ones grown by Praktiker's supplier. I am already growing one. The consensus seems to be the tall varieties are more hardy - the exceptional successes in Texas,  California, Spain and Cyprus are all confirmed / alleged to be tall varieties. I am also having a single seedling brought over from India by one of my work colleagues. The most likely one will be a Hainan Tall. From what I can tell, that is the most exceptional for hardiness.

[mlovecan]

19 minutes ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

where in crete do you think would be the most ideal location to start growing coconuts? i’m planning to move there from mílos! 

That is a very good question and the answer may be more based on microclimate raher than climate. Friends I know whose families came from Karpathos tell me that has the warmest climate in al of Greece. Logic would dictate Souther Crete would be the warmest. Again, that would all depend further on microclimate. There's a gentleman in Crete who founded the Greek Palm Society some years back. He tells me he is growing about 150 species. I can PM his email to you. He was very receptive when I contactd him a few years back but I just want to respect his privacy and not reveal it here.

 

[mlovecan]

Btw, if you would like to bring some coconuts into the EU from outside the union, according to this, it's no problem since 2019: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2019/2072/2021-12-16#id-e2ce420c-27fb-492a-a6c7-e4fc0a773e10

Some of the big successes in California were wih Hawaiin Talls and I believe you would know where to get one or two of them.

[mirandamavrogianni]

3 hours ago, mlovecan said:

The Malaysian dwarfs are the ones grown by Praktiker's supplier. I am already growing one. The consensus seems to be the tall varieties are more hardy - the exceptional successes in Texas,  California, Spain and Cyprus are all confirmed / alleged to be tall varieties. I am also having a single seedling brought over from India by one of my work colleagues. The most likely one will be a Hainan Tall. From what I can tell, that is the most exceptional for hardiness.

That’s very interesting! based on all of my research and past discussions here, the Malaysian Dwarf were our best bet.. but not the greenhouse grown ones from the Netherlands.. I had considered importing them from the U.S. (Florida) but got stuck during the process. I see that’s what you’ve done for your talks though? They also came from Florida? Do you mind sharing with me the cost of shipping and if there is any customs fees / taxes? I know they are one of the few species that doesn’t need a certificate. 

[mirandamavrogianni]

3 hours ago, mlovecan said:

That is a very good question and the answer may be more based on microclimate raher than climate. Friends I know whose families came from Karpathos tell me that has the warmest climate in al of Greece. Logic would dictate Souther Crete would be the warmest. Again, that would all depend further on microclimate. There's a gentleman in Crete who founded the Greek Palm Society some years back. He tells me he is growing about 150 species. I can PM his email to you. He was very receptive when I contactd him a few years back but I just want to respect his privacy and not reveal it here.

 

Thank you! I appreciate your private message. I’m already thinking about how to start a conversation with him about all of this. Are you familiar with any locations in South Crete? That’s where I’m interested in living but honestly the wind might be a deal breaker. I haven’t found a place without it being so strong (yet) 

[mlovecan]

8 minutes ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

That’s very interesting! based on all of my research and past discussions here, the Malaysian Dwarf were our best bet.. but not the greenhouse grown ones from the Netherlands.. I had considered importing them from the U.S. (Florida) but got stuck during the process. I see that’s what you’ve done for your talks though? They also came from Florida? Do you mind sharing with me the cost of shipping and if there is any customs fees / taxes? I know they are one of the few species that doesn’t need a certificate. 

 

This is for 2 seedlings - the difference between 1 and 2 was about 3 eur. The tracking number has now shown up in Elta. Seems it is clearing customs since 11:37 this morning  :

[mlovecan]

There is no difference between the malayan dwarfs grown in Holland and one that you would bring from Florida, for example. They do need some serious acclimation to the Greek sun. If you have humidity where you are, it would be less difficult than here.

Most palms in my garden were brought in from Germany and most suffered for some time. The only palms that never suffered hard were Dypsis Leptocheilos for some reason.

I fully believe the tall varieties are hardier than dwarfs. That has been the experience of folks all over this forum.

My next acquisition will be a variety from India. Maybe an Indian variety but more likely a Hainan Tall variety originating from China. I have the feeling those are the ultimate cold-hardy. I posted a link to a study of that variety elsewhere today but rather than waste your time going to search for it, I might as well post it here (it details a Hainen Tall vs. a Green dwarf - it would be nice if they also compared it with another tall but I've read in a few places the Hainan is the one to best take the cold):

 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11058665/#:~:text=Hainan tall coconut exhibits superior,its global spread and production. 

My good friend and colleague tells me he has room for a single seedling when he returns to the EU at the end of the summer. 

 

[mlovecan]

44 minutes ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

Thank you! I appreciate your private message. I’m already thinking about how to start a conversation with him about all of this. Are you familiar with any locations in South Crete? That’s where I’m interested in living but honestly the wind might be a deal breaker. I haven’t found a place without it being so strong (yet) 

I visited Crete for about 4 days once and have only flown through Heraklion airport a handful of times. I bought my place here in Rhodes because I like the fact I can drive to any beach on the island in an hour or less. Crete is just a bit too big. 4 hour drives are not unusual. We visited a couple beaches in the south. Koudouma was one of them and, I thing the other was Lentas. Having direct southern exposure, it seemed to be a couple of degrees warmer than here.  This was springtime. I pretty sure it averages a bit more here in summer as we can get pretty hot.. 

[mlovecan]

If you read the comparison on the link above, a group of specimans from both varieties were subjected to 8C for varying perdiods. Then they tested the trees for the presence of various proteins and enzymes I won't pretend I heard about before. However, the final result was the Hunain tall was quite a bit more resistant to cold. The two leaves on the left had been growing at a temperature of 25C.The ones on the right were after 7 days at 8C (HT = Hunain Tall, GD - Green Dwarf). The tall variety remained largely unaffected:

[mlovecan]

This Indian variety also is extremely interesting. It's called Kapa Raksha. A hybrid with east coast indian tall that gets no taller than 2 meters:

[mlovecan]

 "Moreover, Kalpa Raksha has been found to have good adaptability to various agro-climatic conditions across India. It thrives well in both coastal regions with high humidity levels and inland areas with relatively drier climates." https://parachutekalpavriksha.org/blogs/blog-post/top-dwarf-coconut-varieties-in-india

[southathens]

On 5/15/2025 at 12:52 PM, mirandamavrogianni said:

where in crete do you think would be the most ideal location to start growing coconuts? i’m planning to move there from mílos! 

short answer: nowhere

Long answer probably somewhere between the coasts of Lentas and Psari Forada provided there is significant protection during the first years. But again I doubt cocos can survive. Crete is exposed to the Prosinemos winter pattern and believe it or not even the south coast may occasionally see snow...Something which you never see in coastal SE Dodecanese...

[mlovecan]

I now have Panama Talls. The other one got a bit beat up, so it's under plastic for now. This one has now spent 5 days in 90% shade and has grown a bit since receiving it.

[Than]

30 minutes ago, mlovecan said:

I now have Panama Talls. The other one got a bit beat up, so it's under plastic for now. This one has now spent 5 days in 90% shade and has grown a bit since receiving it.

I hope you chill under its shade one day!

Sorry if I missed it, you prolly have already said but do you have any cocos in the ground already in Lindos? Any that spent the winter in the ground?

[mlovecan]

19 minutes ago, Than said:

I hope you chill under its shade one day!

Sorry if I missed it, you prolly have already said but do you have any cocos in the ground already in Lindos? Any that spent the winter in the ground?

 

20 minutes ago, Than said:

I hope you chill under its shade one day!

Sorry if I missed it, you prolly have already said but do you have any cocos in the ground already in Lindos? Any that spent the winter in the ground?

I've put quite a few in the ground at a young age. One was flawless even (but only since it received only morning sun). None made it past March.  At first, none made it past Christmas so I seem to have learned a few things along the way.

I'm thinking the 5 year mark is the earliest I want to put one in the ground. It's comforting to know when it gets cool and rainy for an extended period, I can still move one inside glass for a few days where it's always 25 at 14:00 and the  soil can dry out. 

 

[Than]

On 5/31/2025 at 8:36 AM, mlovecan said:

 

I've put quite a few in the ground at a young age. One was flawless even (but only since it received only morning sun). None made it past March.  At first, none made it past Christmas so I seem to have learned a few things along the way.

I'm thinking the 5 year mark is the earliest I want to put one in the ground. It's comforting to know when it gets cool and rainy for an extended period, I can still move one inside glass for a few days where it's always 25 at 14:00 and the  soil can dry out. 

 

March is not bad at all.. I also lost some plants in March this year which was a surprise. I thought that whatever had made it till then, would be fine. I lost my longan for instance. Strange. 

[mlovecan]

10 minutes ago, Than said:

March is not bad at all.. I also lost some plants in March this year which was a surprise. I thought that whatever had made it till then, would be fine. I lost my longan for instance. Strange. 

I can't speak for your climate. However, over here in Rhodes, we normally have 2 cold nights in February (down to about 4 degrees). Anything really tropical shows a delayed reaction to cold about a month later. 

Initially, I was just throwing the cocos straight into the blazing son thinking more sun would make them grow faster to get them through the winter. Clearly I am having greater success with cocos by working hard through the summer to limit sun and heat damage and keep them as green as possible. 

Once I've had them for a year, they don't seem too concerned about the winter cold ot the summer heat.

[Than]

1 hour ago, mlovecan said:

I can't speak for your climate. However, over here in Rhodes, we normally have 2 cold nights in February (down to about 4 degrees). Anything really tropical shows a delayed reaction to cold about a month later. 

Initially, I was just throwing the cocos straight into the blazing son thinking more sun would make them grow faster to get them through the winter. Clearly I am having greater success with cocos by working hard through the summer to limit sun and heat damage and keep them as green as possible. 

Once I've had them for a year, they don't seem too concerned about the winter cold ot the summer heat.

I have come to the conclusion that all plants prefer a bit of shade in our climate. Greek sun seems to be super strong. I learned that the hard way with my alocasias which love full sun in Bali but die quickly in full sun in Greece

[Than]

Oh and remember the Beccariophoenix I bought 10 days ago? Dead already; fried under the sun when I was away for 3 days..  even though it was under the sun only in the morning. This must be my personal fast murder record haha.