Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread

[UK_Palms]

4 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I don't know the exact hours below freezing but I know it was over 100 hours.  I am closer to San Antonio than Austin.  On most of those days we got pretty close to freezing temps, even if it stayed below freezing.  There are actually quite a few recovering in San Antonio.  I saw a row of about 10 of them and all of them were recovering.

Glad to hear so many are recovering. No doubt your impressive warm-up capabilities in Texas helped a lot. I mean if I ever saw.. lets say 10F and 75 hours below freezing, then I don't think Robusta's would stand a chance here. They would have to go weeks, if not months, before the temperature rose above 70F again. Sunshine levels are way less here as well, obviously.

I probably won't ever get that cold in my lifetime, but I can't rule it out here, since I am inland in the rural countryside, at 51N. Filifera are a much better option for me here. Robusta's seem to do great in London though. They should definitely plant more of them, instead of putting CIDP's everywhere.

Talking of CIDP's, were they defoliated in San Antonio / New Braunfels and if so, have they all come back?

[Xenon]

Here are some robusta in South Texas:

*notice they have a tendency to twist, turn, and curve vs. the columnar and "severe" look of filifera and many hybrids 

*notice they have a very prominent pronounced base vs the nearly even trunk of filfiera and subtle tapering of many hybrids

*very droopy leaflets, bright lime-green coloring, long petioles and "airy" crown vs dense and dull-green filifera

 

Here is Houston example of very robusta looking robusta, notice especially the coloring and just how droopy the leaflets are  

Barely hanging on after "only" 14F

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Xenon

[Xenon]

39 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I'm hoping at least one or two of those big Robusta's come back for you man. They looked great. Another couple of weeks and you may see some growth, fingers crossed.

Are there any other Robusta survivors in College Station?

No living robusta in College Station

[Keys6505]

Was at the Houston Zoo today.  Didn't take a lot of pics but a lot of their mules have yet to push green along with many other crispy palms.  I did notice this one but it's hard to make out in it's current state.  It's definitely some type of phoenix but was hoping someone would remember it because it looks like a Reclinata to me and if so I'd be impressed because it's pushing green from several places.  It's in the corner between the rhinos and the outdoor seating area for the giraffe restaurant.

[Xenon]

3 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Was at the Houston Zoo today.  Didn't take a lot of pics but a lot of their mules have yet to push green along with many other crispy palms.  I did notice this one but it's hard to make out in it's current state.  It's definitely some type of phoenix but was hoping someone would remember it because it looks like a Reclinata to me and if so I'd be impressed because it's pushing green from several places.  It's in the corner between the rhinos and the outdoor seating area for the giraffe restaurant.

The zoo has/had many cool palms...any chance you got photos of the Allagoptera arenaria (in the circular bed in front of the entrance) and Copernicia alba (BIG one near the koala exhibit, the other near the reptile house)? 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Xenon

[Collectorpalms]

7 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Was at the Houston Zoo today.  Didn't take a lot of pics but a lot of their mules have yet to push green along with many other crispy palms.  I did notice this one but it's hard to make out in it's current state.  It's definitely some type of phoenix but was hoping someone would remember it because it looks like a Reclinata to me and if so I'd be impressed because it's pushing green from several places.  It's in the corner between the rhinos and the outdoor seating area for the giraffe restaurant.

Looks like a Reclinata. Mine was bigger and is coming back from the base like what I can see in your picture. All the main trunks are gone I think.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Keys6505]

2 minutes ago, Xenon said:

The zoo has/had many cool palms...any chance you got photos of the Allagoptera arenaria (in the circular bed in front of the entrance) and Copernicia alba (BIG one near the koala exhibit, the other near the reptile house)? 

That circle isn't there anymore, they reworked the entrance and they're doing (another) huge addition to the zoo that's going to open next year.  And I didn't get a pic of the Alba by the reptile house.  I definitely looked at everything over there but couldn't tell what I was looking at tbh.  And I didn't even know they had koalas lol.

[Keys6505]

2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Looks like a Reclinata. Mine was bigger and is coming back from the base like what I can see in your picture. All the main trunks are gone I think.

I didn't think they were that tough.  What's the growth rate on them?  Any pics pre freeze?

[Xenon]

Just now, Keys6505 said:

That circle isn't there anymore, they reworked the entrance and they're doing (another) huge addition to the zoo that's going to open next year.  And I didn't get a pic of the Alba by the reptile house.  I definitely looked at everything over there but couldn't tell what I was looking at tbh.  And I didn't even know they had koalas lol.

Hmm maybe it was red pandas...whatever is in that house next to the gift shop. I don't go to the zoo to look at animals 

[Keys6505]

3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Hmm maybe it was red pandas...whatever is in that house next to the gift shop. I don't go to the zoo to look at animals 

I'll be back soon, my kids love it there so we go every few weeks.  I'll get pics of everything next time.  I have to be sneaky about it though.  My wife takes pictures of me taking pictures of plants and then sends them to people I know just to be a dick.

[JohnAndSancho]

Daytime update - apartment Sabal is going bonkers and I'm jealous of its growth. 

 

Edit: Sago. Sago Sago Sago lol. 

[Reyes Vargas]

3 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Daytime update - apartment Sabal is going bonkers and I'm jealous of its growth. 

That's a weird looking sabal

 

[JohnAndSancho]

1 minute ago, Reyes Vargas said:

That's a weird looking sabal

 

I meant to type Sago lol. Glad I still have time to edit. 

[Collectorpalms]

30 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

I meant to type Sago lol. Glad I still have time to edit. 

Trying pulling main crown off. Lots of dead ones if you don’t see them flushing. That one near a hotel probably ok. But a lot of dead ones over central Texas.

[JohnAndSancho]

5 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Trying pulling main crown off. Lots of dead ones if you don’t see them flushing. That one near a hotel probably ok. But a lot of dead ones over central Texas.

Oh it ain't mine lol. And they're raising my rent again. It's their problem. 

[Collectorpalms]

1 minute ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Oh it ain't mine lol. And they're raising my rent again. It's their problem. 

Sorry building not any specific type 

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Glad to hear so many are recovering. No doubt your impressive warm-up capabilities in Texas helped a lot. I mean if I ever saw.. lets say 10F and 75 hours below freezing, then I don't think Robusta's would stand a chance here. They would have to go weeks, if not months, before the temperature rose above 70F again. Sunshine levels are way less here as well, obviously.

I probably won't ever get that cold in my lifetime, but I can't rule it out here, since I am inland in the rural countryside, at 51N. Filifera are a much better option for me here. Robusta's seem to do great in London though. They should definitely plant more of them, instead of putting CIDP's everywhere.

Talking of CIDP's, were they defoliated in San Antonio / New Braunfels and if so, have they all come back?

Yes and Yes.  They all completely defoliated and they all came back, or at least are in the process of coming back.

[NBTX11]

4 hours ago, Xenon said:

Here are some robusta in South Texas:

*notice they have a tendency to twist, turn, and curve vs. the columnar and "severe" look of filifera and many hybrids 

*notice they have a very prominent pronounced base vs the nearly even trunk of filfiera and subtle tapering of many hybrids

*very droopy leaflets, bright lime-green coloring, long petioles and "airy" crown vs dense and dull-green filifera

 

Here is Houston example of very robusta looking robusta, notice especially the coloring and just how droopy the leaflets are  

Barely hanging on after "only" 14F

 

 

There are tons of palms in San Antonio than look like your Houston Washingtonia photos, possibly taller. Have you scouted out central and south San Antonio?

[Xenon]

1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

There are tons of palms in San Antonio than look like your Houston Washingtonia photos, possibly taller. Have you scouted out central and south San Antonio?

Oh I believe you, there probably are and no I haven't been that way. I'm slightly more conservative with what I consider "robusta" and I wouldn't count the ones you posted in New Braunfels. For example in parts of Katy, all/most of the Washingtonia that look similar to your photos (somewhat thin hybrids but not quite "robusta") are alive while the "pure"/fairly pure robusta are almost all dead (or have yet to show signs of life). Travel half a mile or a mile in a favored direction and suddenly some living robusta start to appear. I do think urbanization and duration of freeze played a big part as there is a almost a clearly defined drop-off in survival within a few blocks north of Interstate 10. 

[Tyrone]

6 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I have never seen a severely damaged or killed washie here in the UK, so it is hard to gage their exact hardiness over here. No doubt plenty of washies have probably perished from cold events over the years here, but I am yet to see any dead ones myself. So it's hard to gage their threshold over here and know exactly what temps have killed them, especially Robusta's.

I know some of the big 30ft Filifera's have survived lows of 15F totally undamaged. I rarely see any damaged hybrids either. But as you say, there isn't many pure Robusta's here to properly gage their hardiness. I am also fully aware that their hardiness will differ depending on climate, clearly. I'm just trying to take information from your recent freeze as a reference point.

I think the Earl's Court, London washie is a pure Robusta, right...? The trunk is real thin, although I doubt that thing has ever experienced colder than 21-22F there in central London...

This picture shows the "rail-thin" trunk better, fresh after a trim...

 

Some more Robusta's in London, which are thriving but were planted big...

 

Obviously you guys are going to have better recovery chances due to the quicker warmup and the fact you have warmer temps in general across the year. Of course the freeze duration will come into it too. I have never spent more than about 48-72 hours below freezing here. If I'm not mistaken, you guys were below freezing for about 120 hours weren't you in NB/Austin? Yet you're saying some of the Robusta's have come back from that freeze duration and the 9F low...? If so, that makes me a tiny bit more confident with Robusta's here. 

That Earls Court garden is a real ripper for London. How cool that place looks. Not my image of an English country garden. Pool and all. People dont even have swimming pools down where I live because its too cool in summer and the beach is just down the road. Real nice. Sorry if I digress.

[PricklyPearSATC]

These survived in San Antonio.  Don't know if they're robustas or hybrids.  Near downtown.

What's weird I will see a planting of robustas and they look fine.  Then a block over similar looking palms have no progress.


Juvenile robusta/filibusters, not looking good in my neighborh

Edited April 29, 2021 by PricklyPearSATC

[Xenon]

21 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

These survived in San Antonio.  Don't know if they're robustas or hybrids.  Near downtown.

What's weird I will see a planting of robustas and they look fine.  Then a block over similar looking palms have no progress.


Juvenile robusta/filibusters, not looking good in my neighborh

 

Looks pretty robusta

Maybe the concrete helps? Would explain the death rate out north/west of Houston where lows were 10-12F...it's somewhat sparse until you suddenly hit the continuous built-up area where there seems to be a big jump up in survival. Further south the impact is less as lows creep up into 14-15F range 

[NBTX11]

10 hours ago, Xenon said:

Oh I believe you, there probably are and no I haven't been that way. I'm slightly more conservative with what I consider "robusta" and I wouldn't count the ones you posted in New Braunfels. For example in parts of Katy, all/most of the Washingtonia that look similar to your photos (somewhat thin hybrids but not quite "robusta") are alive while the "pure"/fairly pure robusta are almost all dead (or have yet to show signs of life). Travel half a mile or a mile in a favored direction and suddenly some living robusta start to appear. I do think urbanization and duration of freeze played a big part as there is a almost a clearly defined drop-off in survival within a few blocks north of Interstate 10. 

Same here, actually. The super thin Robusta in New Braunfels are virtually all dead. Some hybrids are alive and all Filifera essentially are alive and doing well. 

[amh]

13 hours ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

These survived in San Antonio.  Don't know if they're robustas or hybrids.  Near downtown.

What's weird I will see a planting of robustas and they look fine.  Then a block over similar looking palms have no progress.


Juvenile robusta/filibusters, not looking good in my neighborh

Micro-climates, soil variation and luck.

[sipalms]

@UK_Palms - I think herein lies the difference between growth rates (and survival rates after extreme cold!) of palms like Washingtonia. I would think a washingtonia robusta planted in San Antonio today would probably be taller than any robusta in the UK or similar high latitude oceanic climates in about 10 years from now.  If you think of a cold damaged washie today, if lets say the texas freeze was to happen in the UK, then palms would have to contend with very cool to cold and damp conditions,  and virtually no sunshine whatever, with very little vigour for growth, compared to Texas where they're already seeing warmer temps than the UK would experience even in mid summer.

This week in Celcius: 

Versus

Fahrenheit:

 

[HtownPalms]

Much to my shock my assumed dead Queen Palm is pushing out a new frond! The tree is about 20 feet tall and was completely unprotected during the freeze. Most of the palms in my area look like complete Hell but are starting to grow again. This includes Pygmy Date Palms, at least my Queen Palm, CIDP, and the Washys. A few still look like goners, but not nearly as many as I thought 2 months ago. 

[HtownPalms]

I never had much interest in European Fan Palms or Windmill Palms before the freeze. After seeing them come out of the freeze with no damage at all I'm starting to think they might become my new "go to" Palms from here on out. 

[PricklyPearSATC]

23 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Glad to hear so many are recovering. No doubt your impressive warm-up capabilities in Texas helped a lot. I mean if I ever saw.. lets say 10F and 75 hours below freezing, then I don't think Robusta's would stand a chance here. They would have to go weeks, if not months, before the temperature rose above 70F again. Sunshine levels are way less here as well, obviously.

I probably won't ever get that cold in my lifetime, but I can't rule it out here, since I am inland in the rural countryside, at 51N. Filifera are a much better option for me here. Robusta's seem to do great in London though. They should definitely plant more of them, instead of putting CIDP's everywhere.

Talking of CIDP's, were they defoliated in San Antonio / New Braunfels and if so, have they all come back?

CIDPs survived in San Antonio, although their foliage was burnt to a crisp, they are returning. 

[Xenon]

36 minutes ago, HtownPalms said:

Much to my shock my assumed dead Queen Palm is pushing out a new frond! The tree is about 20 feet tall and was completely unprotected during the freeze. Most of the palms in my area look like complete Hell but are starting to grow again. This includes Pygmy Date Palms, at least my Queen Palm, CIDP, and the Washys. A few still look like goners, but not nearly as many as I thought 2 months ago. 

Pygmy dates alive??? That is news 

And please post a pic of your queen palm!!

Edited April 29, 2021 by Xenon

[bubba]

Pretty amazing in the picture at the top of the page from Southern Texas. I see a blooming Delonix Regis in addition to some other tropicals that look perfect! We are only getting a touch of those here at this time.

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms - I think herein lies the difference between growth rates (and survival rates after extreme cold!) of palms like Washingtonia. I would think a washingtonia robusta planted in San Antonio today would probably be taller than any robusta in the UK or similar high latitude oceanic climates in about 10 years from now.  If you think of a cold damaged washie today, if lets say the texas freeze was to happen in the UK, then palms would have to contend with very cool to cold and damp conditions,  and virtually no sunshine whatever, with very little vigour for growth, compared to Texas where they're already seeing warmer temps than the UK would experience even in mid summer.

Just for the record, we are currently going through our second coldest April on record here right now. It has gone from being cool and dry, to cool and wet, with numerous nighttime freezes. I am about to set a new record for my all-time average low in April, most frosts for April, and the daytime highs have been the lowest in 63 years too. It's usually warmer than this in mid spring. 

These blips tend to balance out though, so I suspect late spring and summer will be hotter than average. The January - April period in general has been colder than average this year, so May to August will most probably be hotter than average. The summers are warm enough here anyway. I had 8 consecutive days above 95F last August. The past 3 summers have also reached 100F. 

Obviously we're not as warm or sunny as Texas, like in general, due to the latitude, but it appears Robusta may be long term here in London and the south coast of England, whereas they are not long-term in places like DFW, Waco, El Paso etc. So the spring time warmup is irrelevant if the winter lows kill them anyway. Dallas reached 80F just one week after the freeze, but that didn't save the Robusta's or Filibusta hybrids. I was trying to gage what temperature they burn at exactly, and what low temperature they will die from. So spring time warmup is irrelevant. 

Also, if there are 40-50 foot tall Robusta's on Tresco, I don't see why they won't be able to get to that size along the south coast of England and in London, now that people are actually growing them there. Those places never drop below 20F, much like Tresco...

 

This one is labelled 'Robusta' at Tresco, but I suspect it is a hybrid. 

 

Here's my Robusta and Filifera seedlings, which will be getting planted out eventually. Some guerrilla planted. I wouldn't be shocked if they are both hybrids though, to some degree. 

 

I'm not particularly confident with the Robusta's here, since the ones @Xenon posted in Houston were pretty much defoliated from 14F and are barely coming back. I believe most of Houston only had a high of around 20-21F on one of those freeze days though, right? That may account for a lot of the damage as well. The coldest daytime high that I have seen here is about 28F. That may help my cause, slightly. Or not.

Also, does anyone know of any Robusta survivors in Austin...?

[Xenon]

17 minutes ago, bubba said:

Pretty amazing in the picture at the top of the page from Southern Texas. I see a blooming Delonix Regis in addition to some other tropicals that look perfect! We are only getting a touch of those here at this time.

Oh no those pics are old from 2020. Delonix in Texas will take years to regain size 

[UK_Palms]

Just remembered that I took this screenshot around the time of the freeze. Did Austin really go down to 0F (-18C) or is that weather station located outside of town, in a frost pocket? 

[Xenon]

9 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I'm not particularly confident with the Robusta's here, since the ones @Xenon posted in Houston were pretty much defoliated from 14F and are barely coming back. I believe most of Houston only had a high of around 20-21F on one of those freeze days though, right? That may account for a lot of the damage as well. The coldest daytime high that I have seen here is about 28F. That may help my cause, slightly. Or not.

Also, does anyone know of any Robusta survivors in Austin...?

[UK_Palms]

@Xenon Did you reach a high of 28F where you are, on 15th Feb...? I'm sure I remember checking the temps around 2pm Houston time and most of the city was at about 21F. I seem to recall the western and northern suburbs being even colder, like 19-20F. Even the city centre was like 22F during the early afternoon. A few of us were discussing it on the European forum. Or am I totally mistaken here?

[Xenon]

8 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@Xenon Did you reach a high of 28F where you are, on 15th Feb...? I'm sure I remember checking the temps around 2pm Houston time and most of the city was at about 21F. I seem to recall the western and northern suburbs being even colder, like 19-20F. Even the city centre was like 22F during the early afternoon. A few of us were discussing it on the European forum. Or am I totally mistaken here?

You're right. Central Houston did warm up a bit more later in the afternoon. Afternoon high of 26F at 3:30 pm local time on the 15th of February 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Xenon

[Xenon]

35 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

So spring time warmup is irrelevant. 

Record freeze followed by cold and damp is a recipe for secondary infection and rot. 

C'mon look at those tiny sad heat deprived crowns on the Tresco robusta. They're clearly not thriving. How long would it take for them to recover from total defoliation (if they don't rot)? Is that robusta 100 years old? Robusta here gets to that size <15 years. 

Are there London queen palms too if it never gets below 20F? That's the difference between our climates; you have no heat! April here is like a major heatwave in London. 

[NBTX11]

@UK_Palms according to Wikipedia, London has been down to 8F, and every station in the city has ranged between about 8-15F.  That is going to kill pretty much any Robusta, especially with the extended cool climate for months on end.  I'm not trying to deter you, plant away, however 15F in a cool, dreary climate with a slow spring warmup is a recipe for decline and possible death. 

Climate of London - Wikipedia

Heathrow - 8F

Kew Gardens - 9F

Hampstead - 10F

Greenwich - 15F

Edited April 30, 2021 by NBTX11

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, sipalms said:

 I would think a washingtonia robusta planted in San Antonio today would probably be taller than any robusta in the UK or similar high latitude oceanic climates in about 10 years from now.  .

I did exactly that.  I planted a Washingtonia Robusta in 2004 or 2005, and it was about 1 foot tall when I planted it.  When it got hit by the freeze in Feb, it was over 40 feet tall, possibly 45.  It grew 40 feet (12 meters) in 16 or 17 years.  Almost 1 meter per year.

Edited April 30, 2021 by NBTX11

[amh]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Just for the record, we are currently going through our second coldest April on record here right now. It has gone from being cool and dry, to cool and wet, with numerous nighttime freezes. I am about to set a new record for my all-time average low in April, most frosts for April, and the daytime highs have been the lowest in 63 years too. It's usually warmer than this in mid spring. 

These blips tend to balance out though, so I suspect late spring and summer will be hotter than average. The January - April period in general has been colder than average this year, so May to August will most probably be hotter than average. The summers are warm enough here anyway. I had 8 consecutive days above 95F last August. The past 3 summers have also reached 100F. 

Obviously we're not as warm or sunny as Texas, like in general, due to the latitude, but it appears Robusta may be long term here in London and the south coast of England, whereas they are not long-term in places like DFW, Waco, El Paso etc. So the spring time warmup is irrelevant if the winter lows kill them anyway. Dallas reached 80F just one week after the freeze, but that didn't save the Robusta's or Filibusta hybrids. I was trying to gage what temperature they burn at exactly, and what low temperature they will die from. So spring time warmup is irrelevant. 

Also, if there are 40-50 foot tall Robusta's on Tresco, I don't see why they won't be able to get to that size along the south coast of England and in London, now that people are actually growing them there. Those places never drop below 20F, much like Tresco...

 

This one is labelled 'Robusta' at Tresco, but I suspect it is a hybrid. 

 

Here's my Robusta and Filifera seedlings, which will be getting planted out eventually. Some guerrilla planted. I wouldn't be shocked if they are both hybrids though, to some degree. 

 

I'm not particularly confident with the Robusta's here, since the ones @Xenon posted in Houston were pretty much defoliated from 14F and are barely coming back. I believe most of Houston only had a high of around 20-21F on one of those freeze days though, right? That may account for a lot of the damage as well. The coldest daytime high that I have seen here is about 28F. That may help my cause, slightly. Or not.

Also, does anyone know of any Robusta survivors in Austin...?

There is only one way to test the robustas hardiness and that is for it to experience winter. While your growing conditions dont appear promising, you may be surprised.

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Just remembered that I took this screenshot around the time of the freeze. Did Austin really go down to 0F (-18C) or is that weather station located outside of town, in a frost pocket? 

I'm sure some parts of Austin were at or below zero, I am about 50 miles southwest of Austin and experience temperatures of -2F or lower.