Jump to content

What Will You Miss About Growing Palms in Texas?


buffy

Recommended Posts

Holy Plant Armageddon! 

  • Like 3

Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F / '22-'23: 6F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep thinking about @meteorologistpalmguy magnificent JxS and your Yatay mule that is still in recovery mode.  Hoping things turn warmer in the next few days :crying:

Edited by RJ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please not the Houston queen palms and Bismarckia :crying: :crying: and pygmy dates . I currently live in College Station and can't fathom Houston looking like 8b...but at this rate it looks like CS might lose the robusta and become 8a :rolleyes:

Noooooooooooooo this is not happening !!! 

Edited by Xenon
  • Like 1

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Please not the Houston queen palms and Bismarckia :crying: :crying: and pygmy dates . I currently live in College Station and can't fathom Houston looking like 8b...but at this rate it looks like CS might lose the robusta and become 8a :rolleyes:

Noooooooooooooo this is not happening !!! 

I know! All the tall robustas, gone like that! Don't say it's so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I have to believe the GFS model, I think my mindset will go to the default psychologically biased and statistically faulty reasoning of something like...

:innocent: ~ this is a once in century event and I've just had it therefore I am safe for the remainder of my life ~:innocent:

Edited by Swolte
  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Swolte said:

If I have to believe the GFS model, I think my mindset will go to the default psychologically biased and statistically faulty reasoning of something like...

:innocent: ~ this is a once in century event and I've just had it therefore I am safe for the remainder of my life ~:innocent:

Yes! Line the roads in CS with queens this spring. Royal palm boulevards in Houston :P..."we're overdue for a warm epoch, SE Texas will be tropical in 50 years" 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought palmaggedon happened here in 2011. This is several years post the -5f these palms saw on 2/32011 in Las Cruces,NM.  

 

these palms are the survivors.  

 

20170815_152929-1.jpg

20170815_152810-1.jpg

Edited by jwitt
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm based out in Sugar Land, TX, just southwest of Houston. According to the NWS data, the place was no stranger to teens during the 2010s decade. It saw temps as low as maybe 15°F or 16°F during Jan 2010, and that was followed with a low of 20°F the following Feb 2011, as well as 19°F in Jan 2018 - that was at the official site, so it's possible that personal yards might have been even colder.

And yet, even after all that, I still see citrus, loquats, washintonias, and even syagrus on the latest views. For instance, see quite a few interesting specimens just down this random blvd just outside of town:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6492594,-95.6718412,3a,75y,223.07h,107.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJCkIjCc2K3soDyG0bP1lRg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Another neighborhood closer into town:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6008861,-95.675361,3a,75y,220.65h,102.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3D9Cpcd9f6-2nIDPP3Va8A!2e0!5s20190801T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Edited by AnTonY
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, jwitt said:

I thought palmaggedon happened here in 2011. This is several years post the -5f these palms saw on 2/32011 in Las Cruces,NM.  

 

these palms are the survivors.  

 

20170815_152929-1.jpg

20170815_152810-1.jpg

Those palms are beautiful..magnificent. .. def. Not the palm for abq.. they die in a regular winter for the most part.  Im fine sticking with my TorC filifera.. they are magnificent too.  Do you know how cold TorC got during that freeze?? I need to research that one..

Although part of me wants to plant a pair of 30 foot robustiferas.  Lol

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

I think Jan 2010, Feb 2011, and Jan 2018 could be utilized as good benchmarks for this event.

I'm based out in Sugar Land, TX, just southwest of Houston. According to the NWS data, the place was no stranger to teens during the 2010s decade. It saw temps as low as maybe 15°F or 16°F during Jan 2010, and that was followed with a low of 20°F the following Feb 2011, as well as 19°F in Jan 2018 - that was at the official site, so it's possible that personal yards might have been even colder.

That area is right on the edge of where you can pre-2010 queen palms in W/SW Houston. Short walking distance further west more than a stone's throw from Grand Parkway/99 and they almost completely disappear. Probably saw 17-18F during the worst cold events in 2010, 2011, and 2018. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh my jeezus- just saw where the weather models see even poor Gulf coast getting low teens while up here in Big D, maybe zero?? I can remember last time it got this cold in both '89-90 and your just going to have to pray for a miracle with some of these tall, exposed palms now left to be frozen in place. There's a huge Jubea downtown that the Aquarium will wrap but being below freezing for days & days, is it even worth the time to wrap my Trachys & Sabals? Im not too worried about the minors, mind ya, as they're native, but dang, the splendid texanas & palmettos will surely be ruined!

There was an article years ago in the mag "PRINCIPES" that discussed that Trachys actually may produce their own heat, but I never caught another mention about that study. They're gonna need any they can muster! We were just getting some nice tall specimens of Washingtonias- fat too up here. But with over-zealous landscapers removing petticoats they will surely perish. I know only of a handful with these 'old bundled leaves of protection' ( up here by an old Dairy Queen off Columbia St) Perhaps a couple will somehow survive. My bay tree (Laurus) will get wrapped but it's been burnt to a crisp by a few hours of teens. Damn damn damn

 But for all our misery of the beauty we've enjoyed last few years, can't imagine the devastation to be realized down South. F#$%  Sorry y'all- Mother nature is not Fair, and doesn't make sense.

AND we thought last year SUCKED

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Xenon said:

That area is right on the edge of where you can pre-2010 queen palms in W/SW Houston. Short walking distance further west more than a stone's throw from Grand Parkway/99 and they almost completely disappear. Probably saw 17-18F during the worst cold events in 2010, 2011, and 2018. 

Yes, I do notice a rather dramatic change in gardening landscape even just driving from Sugar Land to, say, Fulshear.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, palmnut-fry said:

But for all our misery of the beauty we've enjoyed last few years, can't imagine the devastation to be realized down South. F#$%  Sorry y'all- Mother nature is not Fair, and doesn't make sense.

AND we thought last year SUCKED

Certainly unfair when even Charlotte is just getting low 30s at lowest.

It's becoming clear that this type of amplified pattern is not beneficial to the Texas climate at all - even if there wasn't any cold air in place, it would just be tiresome rain after rain. It looks like the opposite amplified pattern, a ridge west and trough east, is what benefits Texas, especially if that trough is farther away from the Rocky Mountains.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, SailorBold said:

Those palms are beautiful..magnificent. .. def. Not the palm for abq.. they die in a regular winter for the most part.  Im fine sticking with my TorC filifera.. they are magnificent too.  Do you know how cold TorC got during that freeze?? I need to research that one..

Although part of me wants to plant a pair of 30 foot robustiferas.  Lol

Did you see the date palm in the first pic?  That -5f referenced is from NMSU, mere blocks away! 

 

TORC- The high was 11f and low -6f!

 

On a side note, I know of 2 Phoenix C. That survived the -11 in Alamogordo.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jwitt said:

Did you see the date palm in the first pic?  That -5f referenced is from NMSU, mere blocks away! 

 

TORC- The high was 11f and low -6f!

 

On a side note, I know of 2 Phoenix C. That survived the -11 in Alamogordo.  

Yep noticed that.. amazing really... also.. looking closer now.. the last pic..  in between the 2 robustas on the right... is that a Brahea edulis???  Just noticed that..   I think I read somewhere that the leaves of brahea edulis are hardier than robusta...  id like to try one of those for sure..  amazing survivors.. should be a sign of hope.

I dont mind adding protection when we get bad freezes... but one should keep in mind that if you don't do it right you end up doing more harm than good.. with the cold with moisture from supplemental heat.  

I cleaned up the filifera seeds last weekend.. ready when you are...  

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My garbage collector will miss all the debris my yard has created.

my next door neighbor is in the process of selling their house in the spring, they are gonna be annoyed if my yard looks like s**t brings their house value down.

i can’t imagine the bill for cutting down all the palms.

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 1

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

My garbage collector will miss all the debris my yard has created.

my next door neighbor is in the process of selling their house in the spring, they are gonna be annoyed if my yard looks like s**t brings their house value down.

i can’t imagine the bill for cutting down all the palms.

What are you protecting?  I'd go to harbor freight and pick up some tarps... tarp everything with xmas lights underneath.. might not help with the bigger stuff.. 

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SailorBold said:

What are you protecting?  I'd go to harbor freight and pick up some tarps... tarp everything with xmas lights underneath.. might not help with the bigger stuff.. 

So far nothing is being protected. I couldn’t find a tarp that was 1/3 an acre, and 30-40 tall. 

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

So far nothing is being protected. I couldn’t find a tarp that was 1/3 an acre, and 30-40 tall. 

You got time....  you got some sort of heating cable/ lights...   Don't give up man. 

I ordered heat tape for the next bad one we get here..  Why let a couple days ruin how cool your yard is.. 

I am praying to the Ezekiel cherubs.

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SailorBold said:

You got time....  you got some sort of heating cable/ lights...   Don't give up man. 

I ordered heat tape for the next bad one we get here..  Why let a couple days ruin how cool your yard is.. 

I am praying to the Ezekiel cherubs.

It’s was all a cool trial period. Could write a book. 

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Collectorpalms said:

It’s was all a cool trial period. Could write a book. 

Do not become one of those bitter people..

***Snap out if it. Mannnn***

  • Like 2

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Swolte said:

If I have to believe the GFS model, I think my mindset will go to the default psychologically biased and statistically faulty reasoning of something like...

:innocent: ~ this is a once in century event and I've just had it therefore I am safe for the remainder of my life ~:innocent:

You know.. technically.. we are still coming out of the ice age.. so... my thinking would be.. climate wobble..  next one won't be so bad.  Lol

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_clean2day_cond&pw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

It’s was all a cool trial period. Could write a book. 

I would protect as much of the growth points and trunk as you can using whatever you can get together if the forecast doesn't turn around.  Many palms will live at lows less than you think if it's a one off event.  I planted some of those Lowe's Majesty palms as a annual and they survived 19F and they were small but protect if it's possible. 

Get something like this local and wrap trunk of prize palms.  wrap plastic sheeting over.   Best of luck, hopefully this is another model screwup.  

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200663276_200663276?cm_mmc=Google-LIA&utm_source=Google_LIA&utm_medium=Material Handling > Moving Blankets %2B Packing Supplies&utm_campaign=Ironton&utm_content=51595&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyJOBBhDCARIsAJG2h5cnmdsR5GlNkakSoknw6l2oa3F9IOvgCdw418hxC3p-iJZQlLXS0jAaAt7WEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

  • Like 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel bad for you all out in Texas. It could happen to any of us at any time. Hopefully it will not be as bad as forecasted. Growing palms from Texas to Virginia is like playing Russian Roulette! Even if you have to cut all the fronds off of your palms and wrap the trunks with lights and/or heat tape and plastic, etc., you could at least preserve the bud. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

So far nothing is being protected. I couldn’t find a tarp that was 1/3 an acre, and 30-40 tall. 

Ack, I never even got to see that yard!

FYI, all frost clothes at Lowes sold out already. Producers (still) has some. 

1 hour ago, Palm Man said:

Even if you have to cut all the fronds off of your palms and wrap the trunks with lights and/or heat tape and plastic, etc., you could at least preserve the bud. 

Yes, that's my plan for some of the larger ones if weather predictions don't improve by Sunday.

Edited by Swolte
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Like 2

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Won't miss anything.  Not expecting anything to die.  I only have 4 large palms in my small yard, 2 Robusta and 2 Filifera, and not expecting to lose either.  I don't really zone push.  You don't protect palms this big anyways.    

Robusta2.jpg

Front yard3.jpg

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Won't miss anything.  Not expecting anything to die.  I only have 4 large palms in my small yard, 2 Robusta and 2 Filifera, and not expecting to lose either.  I don't really zone push.  You don't protect palms this big anyways.    

Robusta2.jpg

Front yard3.jpg

Washingtonia are not native to Texas, so its zone pushing in another manner. But since there are so many grown there is a lot of data for our area to have an idea of how cold hardy they are. Filifera, are great, but they can still have trunk damage. For Robusta, In 2011 the killing zone along the i35 corridor was central Austin. Robusta to the north and west of town, mortality was over 80 percent, however, even to the northeast like Bastrop and College station  it was closer to only 10 percent. This time that killing zone line is setting up much further south and east under even the most modest models.

Hybrids will be mixed.

Ignore, any data out of El Paso or NM, its does not apply to central Texas.

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, necturus said:

What do you guys think about mules in Houston? Are they going to get it? Mine aren’t quite trunking yet.

Coldest weather is setting up in central Texas. Right now Houston may be east of the worst. But ask yourself if you want it make sure they live given the chances, know that even 15-17F could kill your young ones. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 2

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, necturus said:

What do you guys think about mules in Houston? Are they going to get it? Mine aren’t quite trunking yet.

In TN I wrapped my mule yesterday.  they are pretty easy to wrap when under 12'.  They don't like ice and anything under 20 might hurt them/kill them.  I looked at your weather and Monday looks like the bad day.  I'd wait till closer and wrap if it's under 20 or ice storm expected.  

Edited by Allen
  • Like 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Washingtonia are not native to Texas, so its zone pushing in another manner. But since there are so many grown there is a lot of data for our area to have an idea of how cold hardy they are. Filifera, are great, but they can still have trunk damage. For Robusta, In 2011 the killing zone along the i35 corridor was central Austin. Robusta to the north and west of town, mortality was over 80 percent, however, even to the northeast like Bastrop and College station  it was closer to only 10 percent. This time that killing zone line is setting up much further south and east under even the most modest models.

Hybrids will be mixed.

Ignore, any data out of El Paso or NM, its does not apply to central Texas.

My backyard Robusta is actually a hybrid.  To me the base looks slightly thicker than your standard pencil thin Robusta.  It had far less frond damage in 2010 and 2011 that many other Robusta I saw around.  The central fronds stayed green after the freeze.  Any cosmetic damage was to the outer fronds.  The Filifera had no damage that I recall.

Edited by NBTX11
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm digging up all my young Schafer hybrids tomorrow. I will probably just wrap the mules and hope for the best. My largest Becarriophoenix is getting wrapped and heated.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In contrast to zone pushing, this potential weather event has me contemplating zone pulling: growing palms one zone hardier than their home

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, buffy said:

Holy Plant Armageddon! 

Wow just checked forecast for your area, if it comes to pass it will smash all your lows listed below your profile! Fingers crossed for you

  • Like 1

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Advective said:

In contrast to zone pushing, this potential weather event has me contemplating zone pulling: growing palms one zone hardier than their home

I think the best way to go about it is , have a base of bulletproof palms for your area as anchors and fill In the rest with zone pushes and BB store cheapies =) We all don't zone push but after a couple warm winters you can't help but try them haha 

T J 

Edited by OC2Texaspalmlvr
.
  • Like 4

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Advective said:

In contrast to zone pushing, this potential weather event has me contemplating zone pulling: growing palms one zone hardier than their home

Just go out and plant a yard full of Trachycarpus, Sabal minors and such.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...