What Could Be Going In These Holes?

[mjff]

What could possibly require holes like these?  They are 8' x 8' x 5'.

[mjff]

Another shot of all three in the front oval drive.

[mjff]

Different angle of front.

[mjff]

The 3 in the back.

[mjff]

Finally, a hint.  Tune back in this weekend for the whole ugly story and more photos.  If all goes well, by this time tomorrow all those holes will have palms in them.

[palmazon]

here's how it went down on our end

images courtesy Peter

[mjff]

Thanks Danny and Peter!

[BS Man about Palms]

Speechless.

[BS Man about Palms]

Is that the same guy who moved in the Royal to Pat Mahoney's?

[mjff]

The crew in Woodland Hills (photos Danny posted) is Art Marino's crew (Oasis Nursery and Landscaping, Carlsbad, CA).  The crane is from Champion Crane.

The trees on the truck came from the UC Irvine Arboretum and were dug and loaded by Senna Tree Company.

[LJG]

Looks like Art was a good referral for you.

Is this your pad?

[monkeyranch]

UC Irvine Arboretum??    How did you score those?  If I was the governor, I wouldn't allow any of The People of California's Jubaeas to be sold off.   Elect me.

[TikiRick]

Ok....for those of us not from either CA or TX....please explain this story! Even being a retired Detective, I can't figure out what these threads are referring to.

Are these Jubea's being dug from the UC Irvine Arboretum and planted in TX? Why would any arboretum sell of their trees? Isn't TX know for heat and humidity? Why then would Jubea's do so well there?  And finally....who's property?

[mjff]

Len, yes they are going in my yard.  Art was very easy to work with, when the trees get here we'll see how good of a job they did with them.  The shrinkwrap had all come off by the time they got to Irvine, so the crew there had to put burlap on the rootballs.

monkeyranch, the Arboretum is doing some kind of expansion, so the Jubaeas and some other trees had to go.  Senna was doing the work, and they bought the trees, then resold them to me for a very reasonable price since they didn't have to box them or put them in their nursery.

[mjff]

TikiRick,  if you checkout some of my other threads you will get more details.  I have been working on this for over 2 months now.  4 of the trees are from UCI, the others are from a private residence in Woodland Hills, CA.

Texas is a huge state, basically the size of the entire SE portion of the US, with widely varying climates.  The climate in my area is very similar to the part of CA where the two largest trees are coming from.

The property is my ranch just outside San Angelo, TX.

[Ken Johnson]

Martin,

Did you root prune or just dig in one day?

[palmazon]

one day dig

[NBTX11]

To answer someone's question about humidity in TX.  No, usually San Angelo is not very humid, although it can get humid.  Hot, yes, but not very humid, unless they happen to be on the humid side of what we call in TX "the dry line". (The line or front where humid gulf air meets the desert dry air to the west).  Usually there are T-Storms along that line.  

East of I-35, or approximately a line from DFW to Austin to San Antonio, east of that line it is usually VERY humid, but going west of that line, the humidity generally decreases, until it becomes very dry out in West TX.  This year it has been humid everywhere, I think, except far west TX with all the rain.

I lived in FL for a number of years and this year there has been no difference in humidity here as compared to FL due to all the rain.

[mjff]

Very long day.  Couldn't fall asleep until 2:00 a.m., then woke up at 6:00 a.m. and couldn't go back to sleep.  Crane got here at 8:00 a.m. and was gone by 4:00 p.m. after a couple of hour break to get a smaller crane that could operate more easily in my back yard.  We worked several hours after that planting the trees and removing the shade cloth that was used to protect the fronds in transit.  All the trees are in their holes, but 1/2 still need to be straightened.  More work to do tomorrow.  Maybe I can get some photos up on Sunday.

We have been unusually humid this year, but also much cooler than normal.  Our high today was only 85.  In general, if we are hot the air is dry, and if we are cool the air is humid.  Very rare to have hot and humid here.

[mjff]

Surprise, surprise nobody showed up to work yesterday.  I don't know why people seem compelled to tell you they will be here on a Saturday morning, then never show up.

Anyway, here are some photos of the Jubaeas as things stand now with only one completely planted.  

The heads are still tied on the 3 largest, a situation I hope to remedy tomorrow.

[mjff]

Here are the 3 smaller ones.  They planted out to about 16' tall.  Their fronds seem to wave at you in a gentle breeze, it is very calming to look at them.

[mjff]

Another view of two of the smaller ones with the back of the house in the background.

[DoomsDave]

(BS, Man about Palms @ Jul. 27 2007,00:35)

QUOTE

Speechless.

Me, too!

So, Danny, that's where you were!

Good.

[DoomsDave]

Joobee-doobie, doo!

Da-da-da-dee-ya . . . .

[fastfeat]

Where at UCI were these trees? Hard to believe I missed 'em when I lived in OC. Oh well, missed a lot of court dates, trips to my probation officer, etc. too...Guess that's why I had to come to FL...

Are those Sabal palmetto or S. mexicana?

Are you sure you want to take the ties off the Jubaeas so soon?

Anyway, they look great. Best of luck on your endeavor...

[mjff]

fastfeat, the trees were at the UCI Arboretum near the river I've been told.

In the background of the large trees there are Sabal mexicana and Washingtonia robusta.  That is a Trachycarpus fortunei next to the house between the trees in the last photo.

The latest research I've seen, and the advice I got from the tree movers was that a root ball extending out from the trunk for 18 inches should be adequate and not to use antitranspirants/antidessicants.  I was also advised not to remove any leaves prior to transplanting, but if any die after transplanting to remove those, and to tie up the fronds for digging and  transport but untie them once the palm is replanted.  They also advised covering the leaves and root ball with shade cloth during transport and to keep the root ball moist during transport.  I'm reallly, really hoping that was good advice.

[LJG]

(mjff @ Jul. 29 2007,21:01)

QUOTE

The latest research I've seen, and the advice I got from the tree movers was that a root ball extending out from the trunk for 18 inches should be adequate and not to use antitranspirants/antidessicants.  I was also advised not to remove any leaves prior to transplanting, but if any die after transplanting to remove those, and to tie up the fronds for digging and  transport but untie them once the palm is replanted.  They also advised covering the leaves and root ball with shade cloth during transport and to keep the root ball moist during transport.  I'm reallly, really hoping that was good advice.

Good advice. Plus remember to deep water with soaker hoses for a few weeks minimum. I wrapped the soaker hose around the bottom of the trunk. One more tip. Get someone in to do a ground and foliar spray. Here we use Cleary's 3336 (Subdue can be used at same time too). I also have them fertilize ground and foliar with STEM. When you have expensive trees, $150/tree to be sprayed is cheap when you look at the alternative.

Also, when you plant make sure to put perforated pvc pipe at the bottom and run two vents from it. Serves a few purposes. I like it because you can put something down there to see if there is standing water. I know it might be too late as they are in, but did you set them on top of 3/4 gravel? 1 foot worth. Then sand? Might seem crazy, but all my large specimen trees I have brought in never skipped a beat when all this was done. I have seen many other peoples die, brown out, or 'flat top'. I also see over and under watering so they go into shock and it takes years to start making healthy flushes.

Anyway, good luck. I remember when I got my large trees in. Kid in a candy store. I remember I was outside till 2 am looking at them. My wife yelling at me to come inside because I was embarrassing her with the neighbors.

[fastfeat]

Not that I'm planning on moving anything that big into my yard, but I'll remember the advice on unwrapping my presents before Xmas...

NEVER, NEVER pay your crew on Friday afternoon if there's work to be done on Saturday!

[wendisplantation]

Oh my.....so beautiful!

I hope these trees give you many many years of enjoyment!

[mjff]

(LJG @ Jul. 29 2007,23:25)

QUOTE

(mjff @ Jul. 29 2007,21:01)

QUOTE

The latest research I've seen, and the advice I got from the tree movers was that a root ball extending out from the trunk for 18 inches should be adequate and not to use antitranspirants/antidessicants.  I was also advised not to remove any leaves prior to transplanting, but if any die after transplanting to remove those, and to tie up the fronds for digging and  transport but untie them once the palm is replanted.  They also advised covering the leaves and root ball with shade cloth during transport and to keep the root ball moist during transport.  I'm reallly, really hoping that was good advice.

Good advice. Plus remember to deep water with soaker hoses for a few weeks minimum. I wrapped the soaker hose around the bottom of the trunk. One more tip. Get someone in to do a ground and foliar spray. Here we use Cleary's 3336 (Subdue can be used at same time too). I also have them fertilize ground and foliar with STEM. When you have expensive trees, $150/tree to be sprayed is cheap when you look at the alternative.

Also, when you plant make sure to put perforated pvc pipe at the bottom and run two vents from it. Serves a few purposes. I like it because you can put something down there to see if there is standing water. I know it might be too late as they are in, but did you set them on top of 3/4 gravel? 1 foot worth. Then sand? Might seem crazy, but all my large specimen trees I have brought in never skipped a beat when all this was done. I have seen many other peoples die, brown out, or 'flat top'. I also see over and under watering so they go into shock and it takes years to start making healthy flushes.

Anyway, good luck. I remember when I got my large trees in. Kid in a candy store. I remember I was outside till 2 am looking at them. My wife yelling at me to come inside because I was embarrassing her with the neighbors.

Len,

Art suggested I put the PVC under them with coarse sand.  I remembered the coarse sand, but forgot the PVC.  It should be alright though my soil is very well drained.  

We had a 1" rain the day before we dug the holes and when I told my landscaper he asked me "where" because it was bone dry already.

How often do you think I should water them?  I am using a soaker hose and it seems to really get that rootball completely wet.  Keep in mind our temperatures this summer have been in the upper 80's and low 90's with dewpoints in the upper 60's.

I'll check, but I'm pretty sure there isn't anybody in the area that does foliar feeding on big trees like these.

I didn't stand out in the yard, I just opened the blinds in the bedroom and stared at the fronds gently swaying in the moonlight until I fell asleep, about 2:00 a.m.  My wife hates leaving the blinds open at night.

fastfeat, I'm not paying them until the job is done, but they still don't show.  Then it rained last night, so now the geniuses can't do anything today, and it's supposed to rain again this afternoon, so they won't be able to do anything tomorrow either.  

It seems to me that if you are in a line of work where you require good weather that you would work on the days when the weather is nice, and take off the days the weather doesn't allow you to work.  I guess that would make too much sense.  

Now their income this week will be maximum 60% of what it could have been, and instead of working Saturday and Sunday to make up for it how much you want to bet they don't work then either?  Then I'll get to listen to them complain about how they have no money.  Gee, I wonder why they're broke.  It's a mystery.

[Kris]

Dear mjff  

Fentastic coverage and i love the work ! and those guys living in that blue roof tiles house really know what slow growing

beauty is.double thumbs up to those contractors & transporters.it should have been a visual feat..i really felt i missed this transportation scenes live.

and why is the bigger jubeas 2 & 3 have their root ball protroding up of the surface layer soil ? was the pit not dug

as deep it required.here in india 90% of the transplants are

all in floor level.

and even i wanted to put few pipe underneath the pit i took

for the palms to be place on later date.here the agriculturist hinted that unwanteed worns & insects will have easy accesses to my palms foot or main root system.so even i

did not put any pvc piping in my pits.the difference is that

you have placed your palms but iam yet to place one.

all these babies are growing in my roof top gardens.

and is there any chance that any grown up CIDP's comming

into that beautiful property & corypha_Talipot palms being planted or its gona be a simple Jubea garden ?

thanks for the stills and it was eyeful of feasting.

love,

Kris  

[mjff]

(krisachar @ Jul. 30 2007,10:38)

QUOTE

Dear mjff  

Fentastic coverage and i love the work ! and those guys living in that blue roof tiles house really know what slow growing

beauty is.double thumbs up to those contractors & transporters.it should have been a visual feat..i really felt i missed this transportation scenes live.

and why is the bigger jubeas 2 & 3 have their root ball protroding up of the surface layer soil ? was the pit not dug

as deep it required.here in india 90% of the transplants are

all in floor level.

and even i wanted to put few pipe underneath the pit i took

for the palms to be place on later date.here the agriculturist hinted that unwanteed worns & insects will have easy accesses to my palms foot or main root system.so even i

did not put any pvc piping in my pits.the difference is that

you have placed your palms but iam yet to place one.

all these babies are growing in my roof top gardens.

and is there any chance that any grown up CIDP's comming

into that beautiful property & corypha_Talipot palms being planted or its gona be a simple Jubea garden ?

thanks for the stills and it was eyeful of feasting.

love,

Kris  

Kris,

The house with the blue tile roof is mine.  

All the big Jubaeas are raised (you just can't tell on one because the dirt is mounded around the rootball) because the two on the ends will have raised rock planters around them similar to those around the palms next to the house, and the one in the center is going to be on an island with a 360 degree waterfall around it cascading into a koi pond.

We actually need to slide the center one about 18" because it is not in line with the others.  That should be fun!  It only weighs 26,500 pounds.  After that we will mound dirt around it to build the island.

I actually started out wanting CIDP's, but I was told that the cold would burn the leaves every winter here, and it takes 2 years for them to recover, so they would always look bad.

When we are done there will be Chamerops humilis, Chamerops humilis 'Cerifera', Trachycarpus fortunei, Butia capitata, Jubaea x Butia, Brahea armata, Brahea clara, Sabal minor, Sabal mexicana, Washingtonia robusta, Jubaea chilensis, and Nannorrhops ritchiana in various locations around the property.

Ironically, the Jubaeas cost me less, a lot less, than comparably sized CIDP's would have.

The other palms looked nice size until we planted the Jubaeas, now all the rest of the palms look like toys my wife says.

[weldertom]

I've been to San Angelo , being a former Texan and all .............

you must be able to see those trees from miles away !

Are they the only ones in the area ?

great job -

[LJG]

Martin, Art is a nice guy. But I have five CIDPs in my development put in by Art. ALL five had terrible transplants. 1 has some fungus brought with it. 1 was a double and lost one trunk. The other three all have/had bad flat topping. My immediate neighbors has finally shot a solid flush after two years. So his trees looked stunted for two years. I think the reason is he cuts small root balls and does not have the best planting techniques. This is all just my opinion - and I understand this also is the result of the new owner. I am not trying to scare you, as everything will work out. I am just saying while you are just now planting, do everything you can to baby them. The Wine Palms really do transplant better then large CIDPs from what I have seen. But they are still palms.....

I do not want to offer advice on watering as I am not there and have no knowledge of the weather, soil and drainage. I would hate to give wrong info. I was able to monitor everything on mine. I ran the soakers 8 hours a day every 3 - 5 days, depending on the weather. I did this for 6 weeks. But I also had PVC to test to make sure there was no standing water.

Martin, there has to be agriculture in your area? The guys I use spray Avocados as their main business. Same stuff works fine on Palms. I highly recommend this.

You put a lot of time and effort into your project. I can't wait to see the final outcome. You say you are putting in some large Chamaerops humilis? Those are great plants too and bullet proof. I have three specimen sized plants I brought in also. Let me know if you need a referral for those. They ship.

[mjff]

Len,

I have always heard that large CIDP's are tough to transplant.  The Jubaeas Art dug have roots that go nearly straight down.  If you look at the sides of the rootballs you can't see any Jubaea roots (there are some large roots from the shade trees that were growing nearby).  The UCI trees have tons of cut roots on the sides.  I wish they had made those rootballs wider, but Senna Tree Company dug those not Art.

We have tons of agriculture in the area, but it is mostly wheat and cotton.  I somehow doubt the equipment they use on those crops is going to help me.

We bought 25 large multi-trunked specimens out of Harlingen earlier in the year.  I put some in my yard, and we are reselling the rest.

[Kris]

Dear Martin  

terrefic choice and way to perfect timming & planning the entire operation.and i must congrulate you on that beautiful

house.and the list of your additional plant that is going to be used in your landscaping works is certainly gona add great beauty to the entire feel of that lovely house.and try to avoide

dicots since they litter a lot with leaves and will eventually

block or cast shade in that area..

iam shure the entire operation should have been a feast to you ? as it would have been to any jubea lover.

great work and all the best !

Love,

Kris  

[ghar41]

Fascinating post.  

We just returned from the Los Angeles area recently and saw many gorgeous palms.  The larger of the two Jubeaea chilensis at the LA aboreteum in Arcata is one of the most beautiful palms, hardy or subtropical, I've seen in southern CA in my 15 years of touring gardens there.  IMHO, you could not have made a better choice for a large, estate palm for your area.

C humilis, both subtypes, is another knockout palm.  With the many choices warmer climates have, they still plant this beauty in massess.  Consider letting some grow as singles as well as the multiples for a diverse look.

Thanks again for all your posts.  Keep the pictures coming and good luck in your endevors.

[mjff]

weldertom, you can see them from downtown, 5 miles away.  I don't know of any other Jubaeas in San Angelo, and I have only heard of a couple of other large specimens in the entire state.

Kris, thank you for the many compliments.

Glenn, I actually have 2 large single trunk specimens on either side of the stairs going up to my front entry.  You can see them in post 3.  Their heads are so stretched that they almost strike you as being dwarf W. robustas, but they are C humilis.  One is to the left of the garage doors, and the other is behind the row of T. fortunei in containers lined up on the curb next to the driveway.  The larger has about 6.5' of trunk and the other is 5.5'.

The sun finally came out today and is drying things out after 2 days of rain and clouds.  Landscaper says he will be here this afternoon, and I should have a bucket truck here shortly to cut the fronds free.  Meaning more pictures to come soon.

[NBTX11]

Martin, great choice in your palm selection!

You might have been able to get away with CIDP and/or Phoenix Dactylifera, but you sure can't go wrong with those Jubaeas.  Phoenix you would have to worry about the occasional cold snap.

I am seeing more palms in the DFW/North Texas area every time I go up there, so hopefully you will start a trend of mass palm plantings in San Angelo.

[TonyDFW]

Newspaper article.

San Angelo commuters might have caught a strange sight Friday morning: A convoy of flatbed trucks delivering three mammoth Chilean wine palm trees to the home of San Angelo resident Martin Farris.

Farris’ 7,000-square-foot Mediterranean-style house, already flanked by a dozen varieties of palms, received its centerpiece when workers inserted the three giant palms and three smaller trees of the same species along Farris’ oval driveway. The result: one of the city’s more unique examples of landscaping.

“They’re just incredible-looking,” said Chuck Burr, a San Angelo businessman who has grown and sold palm trees for 30 years. “They’re collector items.”

Farris said he wanted a unique variety of palm to decorate his one-story blue-roofed home, which lies on the western outskirts of town. While researching for exotic trees online, the

41-year-old mortgage broker learned of the palms, which at one point dominated the coast of the South American country of Chile. The wine palms’ numbers dwindled from millions to some 100,000 because of the tree’s valuable sap, which can be used for wine- and honey-making. Farris said he paid roughly $50,000-$60,000 to purchase and transport the trees from California to San Angelo.

Because of its sturdy trunk, the wine palm can survive most climates and often takes many decades to reach full height. Burr estimates the larger trees to be about 60-70 years old. He said the younger trees, each of which stand about 14 feet, could take up to 30 years to reach the same height.

“They are striking because they have a massive trunk,” said Tim Metcalf, director of University of California-Davis Botanical Conservatory.

Native to Chile’s central woodlands, the trees can endure most climates, Burr said, and they can survive in temperatures as low as zero degrees and as high as 105 degrees. The wine palms are also drought-resistant.

“They have a very thick trunk, and they have a lot of wax on their leaves, so they don’t use a lot of water,” Metcalf said

Burr said wine palms of this size must be bought through a dealer or private owner. Burr helped Farris purchase the trees — four came from the University of California-Irvine Arboretum and the other two came from a private owner in Woodlands Hills, Calif. The palms can also be difficult to find because of their slow growth rate. Seeds take six to 18 months to germinate, according to a study by Philip Rundel, UCLA professor of Organismic Biology.

The trees are exotic, but Farris said he purchased them solely to match the landscaping of his home and adjacent business, Dream Home Funding.