My Common Queen & Silver Queen var. litoralis comparison

[DAVEinMB]

2 minutes ago, RJ said:

That’s where I got mine from. Two years ago I think. 

Yours in the ground?

[RJ]

3 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Yours in the ground?

Nope, thinking of planting one at my folks place this spring. My new house is finally under construction. Not sure if I’ll get palms in the ground this year or not 

Edited February 10, 2022 by RJ

[DAVEinMB]

1 minute ago, RJ said:

Nope, thinking of planting one at my folks place this spring. My new house is finally under construction. Not sure if I’ll get palms in the ground this year or not 

Oh that's exciting, congrats 

But I tell ya, I'd hate to think of a spring without new plantings haha

[RJ]

9 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Oh that's exciting, congrats 

But I tell ya, I'd hate to think of a spring without new plantings haha

I know what you mean. Right now I have a giant hole in the ground with concrete footers and that’s it . This ran has been delaying everything. Not seeing us get in before July most likely August. 

[Scott W]

Here's my Litoralis, I thought it's been in the ground longer, but my photo records show it's been in the ground two years!

Tiki head is two feet tall for reference....

May 2020

February 2022

[DAVEinMB]

@Scott W gotta love Florida growing conditions, gorgeous palm. I'll post pics of mine in a less flattering thread lol

[Borderzoner]

Does costa farms propagate litoralis or santa cat? Could some be stuck in with the regular queen 3-gal stock? I buy up all their smaller queens from big boxes when they go on clearance..

Edited February 11, 2022 by Borderzoner

[The7thLegend]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:26 PM, Scott W said:

Here's my Litoralis, I thought it's been in the ground longer, but my photo records show it's been in the ground two years!

Tiki head is two feet tall for reference....

May 2020

February 2022

 

That is some serious growth!  Going to be a beauty.

 

[rarepalmaddict]

On 12/20/2020 at 2:47 PM, The7thLegend said:

My Common Queen & Silver Queen var. litoralis comparison

Been growing both palms at the same location in Lake City (borderline 8b/9a) since 2008.  The common queen was planted as a 7 gallon on the south side, the Silver Queen on the north side as a seedling.  There are oaks 100ft to the north that disrupt the cold northern winds some.

Couple quick thoughts.  The Silver Queen took off the last 2 years and began trunking this year.  The common Queen has had a trunk and been fattening a while now… yet they’re both about the same height today.  The common Queen has bloomed, the Silver Queen has not.  The Silver Queen was moved 2 times, once as a seedling and again as approx 1 gallon size palm.

Some of the more notable differences:

- Silver Queen has more flat/stiff leaflets, common Queen more droopy/plumose 
- Silver Queen has a more stiff compact crown.  Common Queen more loose and fluffy.
- Silver Queen leaflets have a darker green, slight blue hue.  Common Queen is more green to medium green.
- Much more Tomentum on the Silver Queen.  (perhaps added crown insulation) 
- Leaf bases slightly darker purple on my Silver Queen

As for the biggest factor, cold tolerance, from what I can tell the Silver Queen may be only slightly hardier.  Both have experienced some very cold temperatures without protection, 18/19 for a low, many low to mid 20s (2010) and some icy rain (2018).  I haven’t been able to observe initial damage and recovery while I was in Jax but I do have some additional progression and cold damage pics I may post later.  From what I can tell, leaf damage seems to be slower on the Silver Queen.  Also I did lose 1 Silver Queen seedling and 1 three gallon common Queen either after 2008 or 2010 from the cold.

Bottom line, I would say the Silver Queen var. litoralis is not a viable palm to grow anywhere in zone 8b without protection.  However if you’re a warm 8b and borderline, you probably can be successful growing this palm a while.

 

Common Queen 2008

 

Silver Queen 2008

 

Common Queen 2020

 

Silver Queen 2020

 

 

 

 

Hello, would you have any litoralis seeds?

Thanks 

[Rubberboots]

@The7thLegend just came across this Old Post and recently discovered the silver Queen... anyone sell seedlings 🤔

[mnorell]

Beware that there is no Syagrus romanzoffiana v. litoralis...there are many threads here on PalmTalk over the years discussing the various populations, varieties or forms of this species. And what was originally sold as "v. litoralis" or "silver queen" was presumed to be a population from the litoral areas of Santa Catarina (probably somewhere around Florianopolis) but there is no expectation that these palms would be any more cold-hardy than other populations, since this is an area where coconuts grow...rather the inland forms from mountainous areas with very thick trunks endure a lot of cold. There's a lot of misinformation out there, so just educate yourself by studying old threads here and beware of anyone's claims. I would think probably the best thing you could do is take a visit to the marginal areas, say, of northern Florida, or if you are in Bakersfield--cold, low spots in the Central Valley, and find old survivors of cold and collect some seed for yourself.

[Chester B]

4 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Beware that there is no Syagrus romanzoffiana v. litoralis...there are many threads here on PalmTalk over the years discussing the various populations, varieties or forms of this species. And what was originally sold as "v. litoralis" or "silver queen" was presumed to be a population from the litoral areas of Santa Catarina (probably somewhere around Florianopolis) but there is no expectation that these palms would be any more cold-hardy than other populations, since this is an area where coconuts grow...rather the inland forms from mountainous areas with very thick trunks endure a lot of cold. There's a lot of misinformation out there, so just educate yourself by studying old threads here and beware of anyone's claims. I would think probably the best thing you could do is take a visit to the marginal areas, say, of northern Florida, or if you are in Bakersfield--cold, low spots in the Central Valley, and find old survivors of cold and collect some seed for yourself.

I agree with everything said.   Fairy tales/marketing gimmicks/hopeful wishes, whatever you want to call it. 

I tested these all out last year. I had a "Silver Queen/littoralis", Santa Catarina and regular queens all plantedout. All the queens died with one brief dip to 19F, one night at 23F and a couple of nights at 30F, with all daytime highs above freezing and had only one survivor.  A Lowes clearance special $10 queen palm.  No one has been able to show any real repeatable evidence that queens from these locales are any hardier than a standard big box queen palm.  Just like Trachycarpus fortunei "Bulgaria".   The type species in both cases have routinely outperformed the so call "Cold hardy" variants.

I really hate to see misinformation continuing on through the years.

[Rubberboots]

12 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Beware that there is no Syagrus romanzoffiana v. litoralis...there are many threads here on PalmTalk over the years discussing the various populations, varieties or forms of this species. And what was originally sold as "v. litoralis" or "silver queen" was presumed to be a population from the litoral areas of Santa Catarina (probably somewhere around Florianopolis) but there is no expectation that these palms would be any more cold-hardy than other populations, since this is an area where coconuts grow...rather the inland forms from mountainous areas with very thick trunks endure a lot of cold. There's a lot of misinformation out there, so just educate yourself by studying old threads here and beware of anyone's claims. I would think probably the best thing you could do is take a visit to the marginal areas, say, of northern Florida, or if you are in Bakersfield--cold, low spots in the Central Valley, and find old survivors of cold and collect some seed for yourself.

@mnorell I'm in the lowest spot😆...what palms do you have down south... message me...I'm from LA.

[The7thLegend]

On 7/2/2025 at 1:42 PM, Rubberboots said:

@The7thLegend just came across this Old Post and recently discovered the silver Queen... anyone sell seedlings 🤔

 

I'm not sure of anyone selling seedlings.  I do have some generation one seedlings I am growing currently but not for sale 

 

 

[The7thLegend]

On 7/2/2025 at 2:06 PM, mnorell said:

Beware that there is no Syagrus romanzoffiana v. litoralis...there are many threads here on PalmTalk over the years discussing the various populations, varieties or forms of this species. And what was originally sold as "v. litoralis" or "silver queen" was presumed to be a population from the litoral areas of Santa Catarina (probably somewhere around Florianopolis) but there is no expectation that these palms would be any more cold-hardy than other populations, since this is an area where coconuts grow...rather the inland forms from mountainous areas with very thick trunks endure a lot of cold. There's a lot of misinformation out there, so just educate yourself by studying old threads here and beware of anyone's claims. I would think probably the best thing you could do is take a visit to the marginal areas, say, of northern Florida, or if you are in Bakersfield--cold, low spots in the Central Valley, and find old survivors of cold and collect some seed for yourself.

Well said and I'm not trying to sell anyone on false hope.  I'm just reporting my experiences.  The fabled Silver Queen was purchased from a reputable Palm Talker.  It's traits are like you described and then some.  If it is something better than the common queen palm I am documenting it.  Pic of the palm yesterday and coldest temperature this last winter.  

Unfortunately I over trimmed the palm because I cut into healthy fronds when trimming off flower spathes.

[Rubberboots]

20 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

 

I'm not sure of anyone selling seedlings.  I do have some generation one seedlings I am growing currently but not for sale 

 

 

@The7thLegend thanks but queens are common here.

[The7thLegend]

Here's a few pics of the undersides of the the fronds.  Heavy tomentum and silvery under sides.

 

 

 

[rarepalmaddict]

On 12/20/2020 at 2:47 PM, The7thLegend said:

My Common Queen & Silver Queen var. litoralis comparison

Been growing both palms at the same location in Lake City (borderline 8b/9a) since 2008.  The common queen was planted as a 7 gallon on the south side, the Silver Queen on the north side as a seedling.  There are oaks 100ft to the north that disrupt the cold northern winds some.

Couple quick thoughts.  The Silver Queen took off the last 2 years and began trunking this year.  The common Queen has had a trunk and been fattening a while now… yet they’re both about the same height today.  The common Queen has bloomed, the Silver Queen has not.  The Silver Queen was moved 2 times, once as a seedling and again as approx 1 gallon size palm.

Some of the more notable differences:

- Silver Queen has more flat/stiff leaflets, common Queen more droopy/plumose 
- Silver Queen has a more stiff compact crown.  Common Queen more loose and fluffy.
- Silver Queen leaflets have a darker green, slight blue hue.  Common Queen is more green to medium green.
- Much more Tomentum on the Silver Queen.  (perhaps added crown insulation) 
- Leaf bases slightly darker purple on my Silver Queen

As for the biggest factor, cold tolerance, from what I can tell the Silver Queen may be only slightly hardier.  Both have experienced some very cold temperatures without protection, 18/19 for a low, many low to mid 20s (2010) and some icy rain (2018).  I haven’t been able to observe initial damage and recovery while I was in Jax but I do have some additional progression and cold damage pics I may post later.  From what I can tell, leaf damage seems to be slower on the Silver Queen.  Also I did lose 1 Silver Queen seedling and 1 three gallon common Queen either after 2008 or 2010 from the cold.

Bottom line, I would say the Silver Queen var. litoralis is not a viable palm to grow anywhere in zone 8b without protection.  However if you’re a warm 8b and borderline, you probably can be successful growing this palm a while.

 

Common Queen 2008

 

Silver Queen 2008

 

Common Queen 2020

 

Silver Queen 2020

 

 

 

 

In wich state is: Lake City"?